Electric Gates Question ?

macabethiel · 20-10-2017, 15:12

About 4/5 years ago we had a set of new drive gates made and fitted and at the same time went for underground electrification.

The Motors are I believe called "Frog" and the Electrical Control Box is by CAME Automation, I have a couple of remote units that work fine. It is not a sophisticated set up just open and close though the control box can do much more. No photoelectric cells etc.

I phoned the firm that fitted them when they started to play up a couple of months ago, they have failed to ring me back or come and fix them. When they did the original job the Electrician had left the firm, the new guy was hopeless.

After the gates were fitted it was several days before they managed to get someone to sort out the electrics - luckily I had not paid in full so they were keen to get it done.

What happens when they fault is one gate will open and end up hard against the house wall whilst the second gate would open a few inches and stop.

I removed the top covers for the motors and generally sprayed WD 40 & 3in1 oil over all the moving parts. I disengaged the arms from the gates using the release mechanism and after a bit of switching the power on and off they started to work again as they should.

I have been greasing the one nipple on each gate mechanism about every 6 months and likewise sprayed everything that moves. I know both motors work as they will start to turn and then stop. The original fault has now returned but I can't get them to work again so have had to put a bike chain round them to keep them shut! lol.

Anyone know a good firm who cover Derby that can fix them as I suspect it is just adjustment and /or programming that is required. I have the Manual for the Control Unit but to be honest it is worse than the manual for the old Sony C6 Betamax Video programmer it's been written for someone who knows what they are doing not a DIY person!!

solarman216 · 20-10-2017, 21:41

Mmmm last problem I had on a customers gates was slugs had gained entry through a cable grommet and their slim caused havoc with the board, Rick

macabethiel · 21-10-2017, 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarman216

Mmmm last problem I had on a customers gates was slugs had gained entry through a cable grommet and their slim caused havoc with the board, Rick

That sounds horrible fortunately where my control box is mounted just under my roof eaves (Chalet Style Bungalow) infestation by slugs or snails unlikely but you never know....

The gates hang on a top hinge and the lower hinge is part of the gate mechanism. I suspect that with the recent rain that the gate swivel for want of a better description has started to seize up. Usually I can lift the gates upwards a tad 1/4" or so (they are quite heavy)as they rise on the upper and lower hinges. They seem solid so I suspect Galvanic type corrosion where the steel gates sit on the bottom hinge mechanism.

I have managed to contact a firm who repaired my Garage Door tension cables & spools a few years back who were very reasonable in price with no call out charge. I am waiting for them to come back to me.

Ten years ago I would have lifted the gates off the hinges and fixed it myself but those days are pretty much behind me. My younger brother (by 10 years) is a good source of grunt for such things if the firm do not contact me by Monday I might get Bro to bring his muscle & strength to bear!

johnb5177 · 21-10-2017, 12:39

Why not use a lever mechanism, that you can lock down, to lift the gate, in order to check the lower bearing........

Give me the place to stand, and I shall move the earth. (Archimedes)

macabethiel · 22-10-2017, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnb5177

Why not use a lever mechanism, that you can lock down, to lift the gate, in order to check the lower bearing........

Give me the place to stand, and I shall move the earth. (Archimedes)

Got a visitor to lift off one of the gates and got one side working as it should when gate back on it would not work. Gave it some more WD40 and it worked. Clearly the bottom swivel is well rusted.Brother is coming over on Monday so will take them both off for some serious freeing off. As last resort will remove arm lever from motor but might need a puller for that.

Blocky10 · 22-10-2017, 17:35

Is there anywhere to fit grease nipples whilst they're off?

macabethiel · 22-10-2017, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blocky10

Is there anywhere to fit grease nipples whilst they're off?

The bit that has obviously seized has a grease nipple for each side already fitted. I suspect that it might be better to lift the gates off the mechanism when I grease them next time to ensure it comes out at top and bottom of the lever hub.

Blocky10 · 22-10-2017, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by macabethiel

The bit that has obviously seized has a grease nipple for each side already fitted. I suspect that it might be better to lift the gates off the mechanism when I grease them next time to ensure it comes out at top and bottom of the lever hub.

Yes. Sounds like that would work

macabethiel · 23-10-2017, 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnb5177

Why not use a lever mechanism, that you can lock down, to lift the gate, in order to check the lower bearing........

Give me the place to stand, and I shall move the earth. (Archimedes)

Used an old stout screwdriver and a block of wood as a fulcrum and managed to lever the gate up so it was still on the upper hinge and with some mild tapping the lower swivel/hub disengaged from the boss of the left hand gate. This gate is the one causing all the problems I am pretty sure. I was then able to slightly lift the lever between the boss and the motor. Turns out the lever/link will just lift out when there is no tension or load on the system and the gate is removed. Managed to get a load of WD 40 and 3:1 oil into the problem swivel.

This afternoon my brother Paul is going to help me lift off both gates. This will enable me to remove all the levers and hubs and give them a good coating of Copper Slip Grease before I re-assemble everything. Fingers crossed this will fix the issue.

I have also spotted that the upper hinge on the offending left hand gate is not bearing any weight of the gate it is just acting as a locator. I am going to insert a couple of Copper washers onto the top hinge shaft/peg so that it carries some of the gate weight as it does on the other side. This should mean that when I grease the gates at the hub swivel the grease will exit from both ends of the hub as it does on the other side.

Last phase will probably mean me digging out around the motor housing to put a proper drain in and reduce the flooding that is occurring when it rains heavily.

Will update tonight with situation report !

Banshee · 23-10-2017, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by macabethiel

Used an old stout screwdriver and a block of wood as a fulcrum and managed to lever the gate up so it was still on the upper hinge and with some mild tapping the lower swivel/hub disengaged from the boss of the left hand gate. This gate is the one causing all the problems I am pretty sure. I was then able to slightly lift the lever between the boss and the motor. Turns out the lever/link will just lift out when there is no tension or load on the system and the gate is removed. Managed to get a load of WD 40 and 3:1 oil into the problem swivel.

This afternoon my brother Paul is going to help me lift off both gates. This will enable me to remove all the levers and hubs and give them a good coating of Copper Slip Grease before I re-assemble everything. Fingers crossed this will fix the issue.

I have also spotted that the upper hinge on the offending left hand gate is not bearing any weight of the gate it is just acting as a locator. I am going to insert a couple of Copper washers onto the top hinge shaft/peg so that it carries some of the gate weight as it does on the other side. This should mean that when I grease the gates at the hub swivel the grease will exit from both ends of the hub as it does on the other side.

Last phase will probably mean me digging out around the motor housing to put a proper drain in and reduce the flooding that is occurring when it rains heavily.

Will update tonight with situation report !

Good work!!!! But where's the pics?!?!?!?!

macabethiel · 23-10-2017, 12:14

095 by Ted Bagshaw, on Flickr

Just a taster this is the offending side.

Banshee · 23-10-2017, 13:35

Nice one

Looks a fairly simple bit of kit to sort out, a nice clean, lube and reseal and I'm sure it will be fine for many more years to come

Do you not like cats?

macabethiel · 23-10-2017, 17:08

mechanism by Ted Bagshaw, on Flickr
My brother Paul arrived this afternoon so was able do the job properly.

With Gates removed I was able to get at the mechanism and use Copper Slip on the link pivots. Similar when I removed the gate cradles I was able to clean out old rusty bits and coat with Copper Slip. Did both sides and system operated a treat without the gates on the cradle. Re-hung gates with some extra copper shims on the left hand gate and it worked first time when the cradles were locked onto the gates.

Am waiting for the Gate Firm to ring back and find out how much they will charge me to fit a photo electric safety device to stop the gates closing on a vehicle , Person or Dog. The control board is designed for such a feature.

Failed to put extra grease in the two factory fitted nipples as my Grease Gun seems impossible to load with grease. One empty cartridge later and I just ended up with a handful of grease!! A..hhhhh

macabethiel · 26-10-2017, 18:00

Well the drive gates packed up again this morning back to the old trick of the first gate fully opening and the second gate moving open by a few inches before it stops!

Spent this afternoon putting in a proper drain pipe (50mm) with a sealed connection to the steel motor casing. I cut a small trench about two feet long ready to connect into the nearby manhole if needed. This was never done properly when the gates were installed it just relied on water soaking into the ground from the motor housing.

When the gates were fitted there was a below ground joint in the wiring going to the problem motor. There are two leads to the motor but only one has a joint as the fitted cables were too short to reach the control box.

The gate electician just connected the wiring with a jointing block and come self effusing insulating tape. I know roughly where this joint is so I am going to dig it up and do it properly with a gel box. The motors are 24 volt so it's a possibility that a poor connection could be causing/adding to the problem.

I am going to have admit defeat if this last idea fails, get a proper bloke in next week. The Missus is already chipping away at my confidence in fixing it myself so I might have to capitulate.......watch this space.lol

solarman216 · 26-10-2017, 21:53

If those little boxes have been flooded then likely the motors have suffered damage, sounds like a right load of mumpties installed the system, Rick

20-10-2017, 15:12	#1
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	Electric Gates Question ? About 4/5 years ago we had a set of new drive gates made and fitted and at the same time went for underground electrification. The Motors are I believe called "Frog" and the Electrical Control Box is by CAME Automation, I have a couple of remote units that work fine. It is not a sophisticated set up just open and close though the control box can do much more. No photoelectric cells etc. I phoned the firm that fitted them when they started to play up a couple of months ago, they have failed to ring me back or come and fix them. When they did the original job the Electrician had left the firm, the new guy was hopeless. After the gates were fitted it was several days before they managed to get someone to sort out the electrics - luckily I had not paid in full so they were keen to get it done. What happens when they fault is one gate will open and end up hard against the house wall whilst the second gate would open a few inches and stop. I removed the top covers for the motors and generally sprayed WD 40 & 3in1 oil over all the moving parts. I disengaged the arms from the gates using the release mechanism and after a bit of switching the power on and off they started to work again as they should. I have been greasing the one nipple on each gate mechanism about every 6 months and likewise sprayed everything that moves. I know both motors work as they will start to turn and then stop. The original fault has now returned but I can't get them to work again so have had to put a bike chain round them to keep them shut! lol. Anyone know a good firm who cover Derby that can fix them as I suspect it is just adjustment and /or programming that is required. I have the Manual for the Control Unit but to be honest it is worse than the manual for the old Sony C6 Betamax Video programmer it's been written for someone who knows what they are doing not a DIY person!!

20-10-2017, 21:41	#2
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,430	Mmmm last problem I had on a customers gates was slugs had gained entry through a cable grommet and their slim caused havoc with the board, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

23-10-2017, 12:14	#11
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	More to follow when gate removed ! 095 by Ted Bagshaw, on Flickr Just a taster this is the offending side.

23-10-2017, 13:35	#12
Banshee Moderator Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: West Midlands Vehicle: 04 2.7 SWB Terrano II Van Posts: 13,526	Nice one Looks a fairly simple bit of kit to sort out, a nice clean, lube and reseal and I'm sure it will be fine for many more years to come Do you not like cats? __________________ Moderator 04' Terrano II SE 2.7 TDi SWB Commercial in Silver - Project Thread Toyo Open Country M/T 33's on 10J Steels, Super Strong Steering Job Navara D22 Snorkel, Front LOKKA, Maunal Hubs, EGR Blank TunitII ECU Chip, 3" Body Lift, 2" Suss Lift, Heat Exchanger Black Interior, 3.0 Borg&Beck Clutch, Eckes Heated Fuel Filter 99' Y61 Patrol GR SE 2.8 TD6 LWB in Blue/Silver - Project Thread Engine Transplant - In Progress!!!

23-10-2017, 17:08	#13
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	All working now ! mechanism by Ted Bagshaw, on Flickr My brother Paul arrived this afternoon so was able do the job properly. With Gates removed I was able to get at the mechanism and use Copper Slip on the link pivots. Similar when I removed the gate cradles I was able to clean out old rusty bits and coat with Copper Slip. Did both sides and system operated a treat without the gates on the cradle. Re-hung gates with some extra copper shims on the left hand gate and it worked first time when the cradles were locked onto the gates. Am waiting for the Gate Firm to ring back and find out how much they will charge me to fit a photo electric safety device to stop the gates closing on a vehicle , Person or Dog. The control board is designed for such a feature. Failed to put extra grease in the two factory fitted nipples as my Grease Gun seems impossible to load with grease. One empty cartridge later and I just ended up with a handful of grease!! A..hhhhh

21-10-2017, 12:39	#4
johnb5177 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Swansea, S.Wales Vehicle: 02Terrano II 3.0 SVE Auto Posts: 1,586	Why not use a lever mechanism, that you can lock down, to lift the gate, in order to check the lower bearing........ Give me the place to stand, and I shall move the earth. (Archimedes)

22-10-2017, 17:35	#6
Blocky10 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Welcome to Norwich, a fine city Vehicle: 2004 Terrano 3.0 SVE Auto Posts: 3,601	Is there anywhere to fit grease nipples whilst they're off?

26-10-2017, 18:00	#14
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	Short lived success !! Well the drive gates packed up again this morning back to the old trick of the first gate fully opening and the second gate moving open by a few inches before it stops! Spent this afternoon putting in a proper drain pipe (50mm) with a sealed connection to the steel motor casing. I cut a small trench about two feet long ready to connect into the nearby manhole if needed. This was never done properly when the gates were installed it just relied on water soaking into the ground from the motor housing. When the gates were fitted there was a below ground joint in the wiring going to the problem motor. There are two leads to the motor but only one has a joint as the fitted cables were too short to reach the control box. The gate electician just connected the wiring with a jointing block and come self effusing insulating tape. I know roughly where this joint is so I am going to dig it up and do it properly with a gel box. The motors are 24 volt so it's a possibility that a poor connection could be causing/adding to the problem. I am going to have admit defeat if this last idea fails, get a proper bloke in next week. The Missus is already chipping away at my confidence in fixing it myself so I might have to capitulate.......watch this space.lol

26-10-2017, 21:53	#15
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,430	If those little boxes have been flooded then likely the motors have suffered damage, sounds like a right load of mumpties installed the system, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.