Insomniac Question...

Lazy-Ferret · 05-12-2013, 17:32

OK, I have now over thought this to the point that applied physics no longer work...

Taking a hypothetical situation...

I have a nice long tow rope, which has a loop at each end, and is rated at 1 ton. I also have a Shackle which is rated at 1 ton..

I want to tow a car that weighs 1.5 ton.

So, I take my tow rope, pass it through the cars towing eye, and round my pin hitch, then join the looped ends of the rope with the shackle, making it, so that there are now 2 pieces of rope between the two of us.

Have I actually doubled my ropes capacity?

briggie · 05-12-2013, 17:36

in my opinion ...... no .... because its only as strong as its weakest component

Lazy-Ferret · 05-12-2013, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by briggie

in my opinion ...... no .... because its only as strong as its weakest component

Buuutttt... surely, if it is all rated at 1 ton, and then doubled up, it is now rated at 2 ton?

briggie · 05-12-2013, 17:57

but ....... its only as strong as its weakest part

Peasgood1 · 05-12-2013, 17:58

It will most likely pull the car quite safely without doubling it.
I can push a 1 ton car along a road all on my own and I'm not Superman.
I wouldn't lift a 1.5 ton car with it but that is different.

macabethiel · 05-12-2013, 18:04

I reckon you have a tow rope with a 2 Ton breaking strain provided it is equally tensioned either side of the towing eye.

The shackle though being 1 Ton is the weakest link so if anything were to give it would be the shackle pin as its the weakest link!

John B · 05-12-2013, 19:04

My mate tried to tow a car with a tow rope which had the alloy hooks on each end, One of the hooks snaped under strain at came flying through the rear window

spiderpig37 · 05-12-2013, 19:07

I would say no as although you have doubled one end the other end is still intheory a single one tonne strap and your accesories are rated at one tonne
If it was being used as a lifting strap doubled in a choke hitch it would be times two less 20% if i remember right from my lifting and slinging course many years ago

Lazy-Ferret · 05-12-2013, 19:21

You see, the more you think about it, the more it conflicts with your logic. I think the same as Briggie, but other than the weakest link bit, I can't justify it.

rustic · 05-12-2013, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy-Ferret

...
Have I actually doubled my ropes capacity?

To answer that question, you haven't doubled the ropes capacity, but what you have in effect is two ropes of 1 tonne capacity so capable of carrying one tonne each so 2 tonnes in total, provided that there is no friction around the pin.
Better if it was a pulley.
The shackle of one tonne capacity, if it is lifting gear, will have a breaking strain of a minimum 5 times rated.

Shock loads are what breaks things.
Also ropes and cables have to go around a minimum diameter pin so many times bigger than the rope or cable diameter, otherwise you will put a strain on the rope and lower the capacity. The shackle could reduce the capacity of the rope.

Knots and splices can also affect the ropes capacity. Granny knots will considerably weaken it.

In answer to the title of the thread... I won't be loosing any sleep over this one...

larson · 05-12-2013, 23:06

still only 1 ton

you have 2 lengths of rope but its only 1 rope thicknes going through your towing eye.
that part is weaker that the 2 lengths together and your shackle is still 1 ton

thats 2 parts under more strain than the rateing. i would tow it but carry a spare as i would expect something to fail

makeitfit · 05-12-2013, 23:20

I disagree
Assuming you have two lengths joined together by a knot or a shackle .
Each line is still 1 ton rated BUT the load is halved.
As Rustic said , there is a small loss at the turn point but really not to worry about.
Regardless of safe working loads etc this set up will for all intense and purposes hold 2 tons

solarman216 · 05-12-2013, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy-Ferret

OK, I have now over thought this to the point that applied physics no longer work...

Taking a hypothetical situation...

I have a nice long tow rope, which has a loop at each end, and is rated at 1 ton. I also have a Shackle which is rated at 1 ton..

I want to tow a car that weighs 1.5 ton.

So, I take my tow rope, pass it through the cars towing eye, and round my pin hitch, then join the looped ends of the rope with the shackle, making it, so that there are now 2 pieces of rope between the two of us.

Have I actually doubled my ropes capacity?

short answer is yes, if it was not then when I run a rope through a block I would not double my pull, which of course it does, Rick

larson · 05-12-2013, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by makeitfit

I disagree
Assuming you have two lengths joined together by a knot or a shackle .
Each line is still 1 ton rated BUT the load is halved.
As Rustic said , there is a small loss at the turn point but really not to worry about.
Regardless of safe working loads etc this set up will for all intense and purposes hold 2 tons

i understand that that bit but were it passes through the eye it takes all the load and only 1 rope thickness. would this not be the week point and still 1 ton?

i will ask at work in the morning..

makeitfit · 05-12-2013, 23:31

A weaker point yes but the rope is spread over the fulcrum ( I think it is) so at one infinite point it's one bit.
real world though it's two bits magically attached round the back

Look here for more blurb https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...57155469,d.d2k

05-12-2013, 17:32	#1
Lazy-Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sevenoaks, Kent Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDi SE Touring Posts: 5,221	Insomniac Question... OK, I have now over thought this to the point that applied physics no longer work... Taking a hypothetical situation... I have a nice long tow rope, which has a loop at each end, and is rated at 1 ton. I also have a Shackle which is rated at 1 ton.. I want to tow a car that weighs 1.5 ton. So, I take my tow rope, pass it through the cars towing eye, and round my pin hitch, then join the looped ends of the rope with the shackle, making it, so that there are now 2 pieces of rope between the two of us. Have I actually doubled my ropes capacity?

05-12-2013, 18:04	#6
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	How mant Tons ?? I reckon you have a tow rope with a 2 Ton breaking strain provided it is equally tensioned either side of the towing eye. The shackle though being 1 Ton is the weakest link so if anything were to give it would be the shackle pin as its the weakest link!

05-12-2013, 17:36	#2
briggie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: peoples democratic republic of west yorkshire Vehicle: " alice " Posts: 10,473	in my opinion ...... no .... because its only as strong as its weakest component

05-12-2013, 17:57	#4
briggie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: peoples democratic republic of west yorkshire Vehicle: " alice " Posts: 10,473	but ....... its only as strong as its weakest part

05-12-2013, 17:58	#5
Peasgood1 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Cheshire Vehicle: '94 swb Terrano Posts: 198	It will most likely pull the car quite safely without doubling it. I can push a 1 ton car along a road all on my own and I'm not Superman. I wouldn't lift a 1.5 ton car with it but that is different.

05-12-2013, 19:04	#7
John B Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Wales with the sheep Vehicle: Terrano 2004 2.7 Tdi lwb Posts: 550	My mate tried to tow a car with a tow rope which had the alloy hooks on each end, One of the hooks snaped under strain at came flying through the rear window

05-12-2013, 19:07	#8
spiderpig37 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: doncaster south yorkshire Vehicle: nissan terrano t2+ Posts: 729	I would say no as although you have doubled one end the other end is still intheory a single one tonne strap and your accesories are rated at one tonne If it was being used as a lifting strap doubled in a choke hitch it would be times two less 20% if i remember right from my lifting and slinging course many years ago

05-12-2013, 19:21	#9
Lazy-Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sevenoaks, Kent Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDi SE Touring Posts: 5,221	You see, the more you think about it, the more it conflicts with your logic. I think the same as Briggie, but other than the weakest link bit, I can't justify it.

05-12-2013, 23:06	#11
larson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: moomin vally Posts: 1,138	still only 1 ton you have 2 lengths of rope but its only 1 rope thicknes going through your towing eye. that part is weaker that the 2 lengths together and your shackle is still 1 ton thats 2 parts under more strain than the rateing. i would tow it but carry a spare as i would expect something to fail

05-12-2013, 23:20	#12
makeitfit Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: on the beach WEST WALES Vehicle: Maverick TDi BLACK mmm Posts: 15,136	I disagree Assuming you have two lengths joined together by a knot or a shackle . Each line is still 1 ton rated BUT the load is halved. As Rustic said , there is a small loss at the turn point but really not to worry about. Regardless of safe working loads etc this set up will for all intense and purposes hold 2 tons

05-12-2013, 23:31	#15
makeitfit Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: on the beach WEST WALES Vehicle: Maverick TDi BLACK mmm Posts: 15,136	A weaker point yes but the rope is spread over the fulcrum ( I think it is) so at one infinite point it's one bit. real world though it's two bits magically attached round the back Look here for more blurb https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...57155469,d.d2k