This is worth a read..

Paul · 18-09-2013, 20:21

The new MOT style testing for caravans has been opposed by the industry and MPs and now the people have spoken too. West Midlands MEP Nikki Sinclaire says her constituents are worried about the introduction of the tests and has been inundated with emails.
The draft legislation which was approved by the European Parliament’s transport and tourism committee has sparked stiff opposition from the Camping and Caravan Club, the Caravan Club and the NCC who all believe that the new test which all caravans weighting over 750kg will have to undergo, will not improve road safety.
Miss Sinclaire, a former UKIP and Independent MEP who now runs the We Demand a Referendum Party, believes that the European Parliament should leave the matter of MOT style testing to those within the UK Parliament.
Speaking to the Kidderminster Shuttle, she said: “I agree with the position of the Caravan Club, and others, that this is, indeed, a flawed proposal. When this matter comes before Parliament, I shall vote against the proposal.
“Road safety is something that concerns us all but this proposed EU legislation is inappropriate and it has other aspects - including the possibility of increased taxation - that make it unacceptable.
“The caravan community needs EU intervention like a fish needs a bicycle. Thus, if changes need to be made, those changes should be taken by our democratically-elected politicians in Westminster, not by faceless bureaucrats in Brussels.”
Research undertaken by the industry and the Camping and Caravanning Club found that most accidents involving caravans in the UK were due to factors which would not be included in an MOT-style test, including incorrect car-caravan match, poor weight distribution and overloading.
The Department of Transport found that only one per cent of all accidents involved a towed unit and of those most were over 3,500kg, so it’s probably hardly surprising that the industry is not backing the introduction of the tests. Furthermore according to the Camping and Caravanning Club, the cost to implement the registration scheme would be over £230 million and that would be just to set it up, not including training and creating the infrastructure – a very costly venture indeed, especially if it is proven that the testing would have little benefit to road safety.
Robert Louden MBE, the Club’s Director General, said: “Ultimately that cost would have to be borne by the caravanning public, many of whom are our members.
“We would rather see taxpayers’ money spent on education and training to prevent potential problems.”
In principle many may welcome the scheme, but the concerns about the real difference it will make seem universal. Those in the industry seem in complete agreement that while improvements in road safety are paramount, this is not the way to go about it.
If brought in the legislation would apply from 1 January 2018.
If you’d like to voice your concerns about the ruling, the details for MEPs can be found at europarl.org.uk/en/your_MEPs.html

solarman216 · 18-09-2013, 20:27

Just another money making scam from the Euro nit wits, Rick

zippy656 · 18-09-2013, 20:34

Yay more work for me

Making people just get there vans serviced would do a lot more!

cncfabs · 18-09-2013, 20:52

Sounds like really good idea to me i would be more than happy if this was introduced to trailers as well.There must be thousands of caravans and trailers with brakes not working properly and illegal and perished tyres.Hgv trailers have to be tested so makes sense that all towing vehicles are tested.When towing heavy loads failure of overrun brakes would be just as catrostrophic as failure of towing vehicle brakes

melissachels · 18-09-2013, 21:58

trailers will be included too, or so my mr is saying

Lazy-Ferret · 18-09-2013, 22:19

Part of the reason so many people are against it, is it will not cover the smaller home built trailers, and boat trailers, which are actually some of the worst offenders of needing a service, and the amount of boat trailers that have no brakes is scary. Even horse trailers would not be included in the proposal. Many of these trailers either should have brakes, and they do not work, or are not even fitted.

Caravans are an easy target, as not only are they nearly all CRIS registered now, so the they have a tracking scheme. Ironically, most caravans are actually looked after better than some cars.

Personally, I think it would be a great idea, but only if they brought it in on all road going trailers that the max loaded weight was over 450Kg, and like a lot of countries, all of those trailers should be registered the same as a car.

cncfabs · 18-09-2013, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy-Ferret

Part of the reason so many people are against it, is it will not cover the smaller home built trailers, and boat trailers, which are actually some of the worst offenders of needing a service, and the amount of boat trailers that have no brakes is scary. Even horse trailers would not be included in the proposal. Many of these trailers either should have brakes, and they do not work, or are not even fitted.

Caravans are an easy target, as not only are they nearly all CRIS registered now, so the they have a tracking scheme. Ironically, most caravans are actually looked after better than some cars.

Personally, I think it would be a great idea, but only if they brought it in on all road going trailers that the max loaded weight was over 450Kg, and like a lot of countries, all of those trailers should be registered the same as a car.

You could go one step further and have insurance and registration that would automaticaly remove all the dodgy home made rubbish because they wouldnt get insured

Thomas-the-Terrano2 · 18-09-2013, 22:39

funny though as all those motorhomes flat towing cars are illegal or close to.

as said needs to be all or nothing

AD Ent · 18-09-2013, 22:46

How is it illegal? Didn't know that. I've seen a few towing cars. Saw one today with a Fiat 500.

Lazy-Ferret · 18-09-2013, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncfabs

You could go one step further and have insurance and registration that would automaticaly remove all the dodgy home made rubbish because they wouldnt get insured

I don't think you should remove all the home made stuff, I love seeing specialist trailers built to do a special job, or carry a special load. It's the tip run trailers that are rusting to bits, wheel bearings gone, and no wheel arches or working lights I would like to see removed though.

It the same as at one point, before they came out with this half baked idea, they wanted to make it that your caravan had to be service at a recognised dealer every year, which I totally disagree with, as personally, I think I do a far better service than any dealer working to time restraints, and who does not have my best interests at heart.

Lazy-Ferret · 18-09-2013, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by AD Ent

How is it illegal? Didn't know that. I've seen a few towing cars. Saw one today with a Fiat 500.

Basically it boils down to brakes... any braked trailer has to have fully working brakes on all of it's wheels, a lot of cars towed on A frames, only connect to the hand brake, so only have 2 of the 4 wheels braked.. the same problem is there for towing dollies as well.

zippy656 · 19-09-2013, 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy-Ferret

Basically it boils down to brakes... any braked trailer has to have fully working brakes on all of it's wheels, a lot of cars towed on A frames, only connect to the hand brake, so only have 2 of the 4 wheels braked.. the same problem is there for towing dollies as well.

There is one system that acts one the foot break. Not the best with out power assist.

From what ive seen. 90% are ileagal due to lighting law.

Also if under 750kg no bakes are required

cncfabs · 19-09-2013, 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas-the-Terrano2

funny though as all those motorhomes flat towing cars are illegal or close to.

as said needs to be all or nothing

Yes any car towed like that has to weigh under 750kg as the only legal way to brake now is by overrun auto reverse brakes

Lazy-Ferret · 19-09-2013, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippy656

There is one system that acts one the foot break. Not the best with out power assist.

From what ive seen. 90% are ileagal due to lighting law.

Also if under 750kg no bakes are required

A trailer doesn't need brakes if under 750Kg, but a lot of cars that tow them do require much lower limits on the brakes, often 450Kg, or 500kg. Besides most people have no idea what weight they are actually putting in the trailer, so many are over loaded anyway, especially those little camping trailers.

The lighting law is a Joke now, even most police officers do not know it, the amount of cycle carriers with the reflective triangle on the carier, and then the amount of trailers that have no reflectors... even on the arctic trailers, they sometimes have the reflector built into the light cluster, but if they are not on a light background, they are supposed to have a white boarder round the reflector, which the lorry ones do not...

Then there is one small car, I can't remember right now, which has a triangular rear reflector, in it's normal light cluster.

arcascomp · 19-09-2013, 09:31

Surely the main type of trailer being objected to here is the naff, rotten, trailers with knackered bearings, bald tyres and no or non existent brakes. Most of these items are already covered by our laws, so why do we need new ones to cause even more agro?

Chances are it'll only apply to trailers built after 19xx and therefore the older the home made trailer, the better as far as running dodgy old kak is concerned.

Can't we just stop making up new rules and bother enforcing the ones that are there first? Leaves those of us that look after their stuff in the clear.

18-09-2013, 20:21	#1
Paul Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: North West Vehicle: 2002 Terrano 3.0 Di LWB Posts: 1,961	This is worth a read.. The new MOT style testing for caravans has been opposed by the industry and MPs and now the people have spoken too. West Midlands MEP Nikki Sinclaire says her constituents are worried about the introduction of the tests and has been inundated with emails. The draft legislation which was approved by the European Parliament’s transport and tourism committee has sparked stiff opposition from the Camping and Caravan Club, the Caravan Club and the NCC who all believe that the new test which all caravans weighting over 750kg will have to undergo, will not improve road safety. Miss Sinclaire, a former UKIP and Independent MEP who now runs the We Demand a Referendum Party, believes that the European Parliament should leave the matter of MOT style testing to those within the UK Parliament. Speaking to the Kidderminster Shuttle, she said: “I agree with the position of the Caravan Club, and others, that this is, indeed, a flawed proposal. When this matter comes before Parliament, I shall vote against the proposal. “Road safety is something that concerns us all but this proposed EU legislation is inappropriate and it has other aspects - including the possibility of increased taxation - that make it unacceptable. “The caravan community needs EU intervention like a fish needs a bicycle. Thus, if changes need to be made, those changes should be taken by our democratically-elected politicians in Westminster, not by faceless bureaucrats in Brussels.” Research undertaken by the industry and the Camping and Caravanning Club found that most accidents involving caravans in the UK were due to factors which would not be included in an MOT-style test, including incorrect car-caravan match, poor weight distribution and overloading. The Department of Transport found that only one per cent of all accidents involved a towed unit and of those most were over 3,500kg, so it’s probably hardly surprising that the industry is not backing the introduction of the tests. Furthermore according to the Camping and Caravanning Club, the cost to implement the registration scheme would be over £230 million and that would be just to set it up, not including training and creating the infrastructure – a very costly venture indeed, especially if it is proven that the testing would have little benefit to road safety. Robert Louden MBE, the Club’s Director General, said: “Ultimately that cost would have to be borne by the caravanning public, many of whom are our members. “We would rather see taxpayers’ money spent on education and training to prevent potential problems.” In principle many may welcome the scheme, but the concerns about the real difference it will make seem universal. Those in the industry seem in complete agreement that while improvements in road safety are paramount, this is not the way to go about it. If brought in the legislation would apply from 1 January 2018. If you’d like to voice your concerns about the ruling, the details for MEPs can be found at europarl.org.uk/en/your_MEPs.html __________________ 2002 Terrano 3.0 Di LWB..

18-09-2013, 20:27	#2
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,432	Just another money making scam from the Euro nit wits, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

18-09-2013, 22:39	#8
Thomas-the-Terrano2 Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hackenthorpe Sheffield Vehicle: Terrano2 R20 lwb 2.7TDi Posts: 5,234	funny though as all those motorhomes flat towing cars are illegal or close to. as said needs to be all or nothing __________________ M6YTB / 20YTB '60' 2010 Ford C Max Zetec 1.6i, black '56' 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0TD, silver 2021 Bailey Pegasus Grade SE Turin caravan Smile, its more likely to confuse. One Life, Don't Just Live It, Drive a Nissan, or ...... a Jeep. Owner of Nissan 4x4s 2005 to 2019, and maybe in the future too!

18-09-2013, 20:34	#3
zippy656 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Devizes Wiltshire Vehicle: Nissan Note Ntec 1.5 Posts: 14,138	Yay more work for me Making people just get there vans serviced would do a lot more!

18-09-2013, 20:52	#4
cncfabs Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: somerset Vehicle: terrano Posts: 1,947	Sounds like really good idea to me i would be more than happy if this was introduced to trailers as well.There must be thousands of caravans and trailers with brakes not working properly and illegal and perished tyres.Hgv trailers have to be tested so makes sense that all towing vehicles are tested.When towing heavy loads failure of overrun brakes would be just as catrostrophic as failure of towing vehicle brakes

18-09-2013, 21:58	#5
melissachels Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Near Armagh, Northern Ireland Vehicle: half of a T2 2.7td swb Posts: 1,216	trailers will be included too, or so my mr is saying

18-09-2013, 22:19	#6
Lazy-Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sevenoaks, Kent Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDi SE Touring Posts: 5,221	Part of the reason so many people are against it, is it will not cover the smaller home built trailers, and boat trailers, which are actually some of the worst offenders of needing a service, and the amount of boat trailers that have no brakes is scary. Even horse trailers would not be included in the proposal. Many of these trailers either should have brakes, and they do not work, or are not even fitted. Caravans are an easy target, as not only are they nearly all CRIS registered now, so the they have a tracking scheme. Ironically, most caravans are actually looked after better than some cars. Personally, I think it would be a great idea, but only if they brought it in on all road going trailers that the max loaded weight was over 450Kg, and like a lot of countries, all of those trailers should be registered the same as a car.

18-09-2013, 22:46	#9
AD Ent Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: West Yorkshire Vehicle: Terrano II SE+ 2.7 2000 Posts: 915	How is it illegal? Didn't know that. I've seen a few towing cars. Saw one today with a Fiat 500.

19-09-2013, 09:31	#15
arcascomp Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Vehicle: 96 Mitsubishi Challenger! Posts: 775	Surely the main type of trailer being objected to here is the naff, rotten, trailers with knackered bearings, bald tyres and no or non existent brakes. Most of these items are already covered by our laws, so why do we need new ones to cause even more agro? Chances are it'll only apply to trailers built after 19xx and therefore the older the home made trailer, the better as far as running dodgy old kak is concerned. Can't we just stop making up new rules and bother enforcing the ones that are there first? Leaves those of us that look after their stuff in the clear.