Pensioners better off than workers ?

[macabethiel]

Well that's an interesting headline but I reckon that like all statistics there are some lies in there as well !

I am 68 and not only am I a pensioner but yes I am better off in terms of disposable income compared to 15 years ago. But............... I still work part time at two jobs. I live within my means. My wife will not get her OAP for another 5 years so works part time and as much overtime as she is offered.

After 25 years I am mortgage free and half way through that mortgage period I was paying over 10% interest rate but when rates fell I kept the repayments the same.

We had the same 3 Piece suite for 20 years and our present one is 15 year old ! We had a Sony 14" TV as our only television for another 18 years and our average car ownership has been buying a 6-10 year old vehicle and keeping them for an average of 7 years.

My pension is less than half what I took home in earnings when working as I was unable to do the full 30 years service before I hit 55. (That's all changed now but I could only elect to sign a 1 year contract that may or may not have been extended year on year subject to performance to stay in my job with T&C's that I was not happy with so I left the Fuzz)

To qualify for my OAP I had to work for 44 qualifying years so guess what I think I deserve to have some disposable income at last!

And here's the bug all my extra work attracts BRT tax band and I pay tax on my work pension. With Tax & Vat on most things plus fuel duty I estimate my actual tax paid to the Exchequer to be 35-40 % of my income.

[solarman216]

Originally Posted by macabethiel

Well that's an interesting headline but I reckon that like all statistics there are some lies in there as well !

I am 68 and not only am I a pensioner but yes I am better off in terms of disposable income compared to 15 years ago. But............... I still work part time at two jobs. I live within my means. My wife will not get her OAP for another 5 years so works part time and as much overtime as she is offered.

After 25 years I am mortgage free and half way through that mortgage period I was paying over 10% interest rate but when rates fell I kept the repayments the same.

We had the same 3 Piece suite for 20 years and our present one is 15 year old ! We had a Sony 14" TV as our only television for another 18 years and our average car ownership has been buying a 6-10 year old vehicle and keeping them for an average of 7 years.

My pension is less than half what I took home in earnings when working as I was unable to do the full 30 years service before I hit 55. (That's all changed now but I could only elect to sign a 1 year contract that may or may not have been extended year on year subject to performance to stay in my job with T&C's that I was not happy with so I left the Fuzz)

To qualify for my OAP I had to work for 44 qualifying years so guess what I think I deserve to have some disposable income at last!

And here's the bug all my extra work attracts BRT tax band and I pay tax on my work pension. With Tax & Vat on most things plus fuel duty I estimate my actual tax paid to the Exchequer to be 35-40 % of my income.

Yes mate the whole system is sh** I get out of most of it including council tax, Rick

[macabethiel]

How do you escape Council Tax live in a Yurt?

[Fez_uk]

You just have to remember you're just one of many people the stats are based on, I guess it goes both ways.

I always take stuff like this with a pinch of salt, unless I research it deeper.

With Tax & Vat on most things plus fuel duty I estimate my actual tax paid to the Exchequer to be 35-40 % of my income.

But pretty much everyone pays vat? worker or oap. so we are all in the same boat...

[Monaro Pete]

I like the little letters that we get around this time of the year, telling us what my 20% tax is being spent on............. Foreign aid, NO I don't want to pay MY money to some foreigners.

What really winds me up is the "Welfare" FFS. It ain't difficult to work out that we give the jobs to the unemployed (welfare stopped if they default in any way) & then we wouldn't have so many foreign workers. I ain't racist , just truthful.
Unemployment would fall overnight.

Maybe I'm wrong & it's more complicated than that, but to me it's black & white.

[don simon]

Maybe I'm wrong & it's more complicated than that, but to me it's black & white.

Yep, it's more complicated than that.
Who's going to employ me with my qualifications? Jobs at my level and experience have hundreds of applicants and going lower down the scale isn't going to work as the employers don't want to train someone who is over qualified as they'll bugger off at the first opportunity.
Immigrants are generally net contributors, so they probably have a greater claim to get hacked of at supporting the natives tahn we do supporting them.
Unemployment is quite low at the moment, so we need foreign workers to cover the shortfall, especially in areas of healthcare where Brits don't have the qualifications or aren't prepared to wipe some wrinkley's 'arris!
Or something like that.

[Monaro Pete]

Uhmmm. Good point

Though you have to agree that there could be more done to get the idle into the jobs that foreigners are doing.

[don simon]

Originally Posted by Monaro Pete

Uhmmm. Good point

Though you have to agree that there could be more done to get the idle into the jobs that foreigners are doing.

To me, I'm not fussed whether the doctor I see is UK or foreign, nor whether my rubbish is collected by a UK or foriegner. There are plenty of Brits working abroad that would really stuff us if they had to be repatriated as other countries adopt the employ an national before a foreigner scheme.
I like that we live in a global village. I love meeting and talking to foreigners as much as I like going abroad and experiencing foreign cultures.
I like that we should be leading the way in tolerance and understanding, showing other countries the way forward. We benefitted massively from immigration after WWII, it's brilliant.
It's there, accept it, work with it and you'll see that the alternative really isn't that good an option.
More could be done to get the feckless into work, but not necessarily at the expense of foreigners.

[terranosaurusdoug]

There would be more jobs if there were less mechanisation, but to force that would probably be communism???

[macabethiel]

About 8 years ago my Wife worked as a Receptionist at a small privately owned hotel that's walking distance from where we live.

In the space of her first 18 months she trained up about 30 young girls for Reception work and they never stayed for long as it was minimum wages and early starts for the morning shift and late finishes for the late shift.

A young Polish Lass Natalia started working part time mainly at weekends and evenings. She was studying at Derby University for a Degree in Business Studies. My Wife helped her with various bits of documentation as she did all the trainee Receptionists.

Over a three year period we became good friends and met her then fiance. We were treated by Natalia as her English Parents, were invited to her Graduation Ceremony held at Pride Park Stadium and shared her joy as she collected her Certificate a 1st Class BA Honours degree.

Her now husband who is an Electrician works for an Electronics firm in Leicester he can't reach his full potential as his Polish Qualifications are not fully recognised here in the UK. They have now moved to Loughborough where Natalia now works in a Managerial roll for a large company.

When her Parents come to the UK to visit they always call to see us and bring a Crate of Polish Lager. Unfortunately they do not speak a word of English but you can see the pride they have have in their Daughters achievements. I have advise Natalia and her Husband to seek for Permanent leave to remain in the UK as a pre-cursor to applying for UK Citizenship as they intend to settle here permanently. They are currently saving up for a deposit on a house, having children has been put on hold until they have their own home.

When Natalia Graduated she feared she would have trouble securing a good job due to her Polish Nationality. I assured her that most good Employers would realise that to obtain a first class degree when English is not your first language would mark her out as a cut above the rest. I also pointed out that in a paper sift having a first would normally get you an interview. She was snapped up within weeks of applying for a job, we now see them every few months taking it in turns to visit each other when we can.

I was very saddened when Natalia told me about an incident a couple of years ago where she was chased down a side street in Loughborough by group of youths who obviously knew she was Polish. She would not report it to the Police as she believed it would make things worse. She now takes greater care when walking alone and they have installed covert CCTV to cover the outside the house they rent.

[Monaro Pete]

Originally Posted by don simon

To me, I'm not fussed whether the doctor I see is UK or foreign, nor whether my rubbish is collected by a UK or foriegner. There are plenty of Brits working abroad that would really stuff us if they had to be repatriated as other countries adopt the employ an national before a foreigner scheme.
I like that we live in a global village. I love meeting and talking to foreigners as much as I like going abroad and experiencing foreign cultures.
I like that we should be leading the way in tolerance and understanding, showing other countries the way forward. We benefitted massively from immigration after WWII, it's brilliant.
It's there, accept it, work with it and you'll see that the alternative really isn't that good an option.
More could be done to get the feckless into work, but not necessarily at the expense of foreigners.

We're a very small island in comparison to other countries, Germany, France & the like. Population per square mile.
Our infrastructure will not cope with how the population is growing. NHS, schools, the road network etc etc. It's all ready started with schools & the Dr's surgeries. There are many other aspects too
We cannot carry on the way we are, something will have to give.

I do not agree.

[don simon]

Originally Posted by Monaro Pete

We're a very small island in comparison to other countries, Germany, France & the like. Population per square mile.
Our infrastructure will not cope with how the population is growing. NHS, schools, the road network etc etc. It's all ready started with schools & the Dr's surgeries. There are many other aspects too
We cannot carry on the way we are, something will have to give.

I do not agree.

A I said immigrants are net contributors to the system, they pay more in than they take out. Financially there is no problem. Physical space is something we'll have do deal with, and in all honesty I don't understand why they come here.
I worked with a girl who booked an appointment every fortnight with the doc, just in case... Now there's a drain on resources.
A bigger drain is our lack of care for our own health, we smoke, we eat crap, we drink too much and don't do enough exercise.
I see millions being spent on schools (it's part of my job) and see schools where millions need to be spent on them. Surely if immigrants pay more into the system than they take out, we need more of them and not fewer. I see huge amounts of wastage, I see people destroying their own country and then blaming immigrant.
We will sink if we have to repatriate the pensioners and send the Natalias home.
There's nothing to disagree with.

[johnb5177]

I remember watching a programme about foriegn labour Vs UK workers.......it was embarassing, as the UK workers (unemployed or 'resting') just did not want to work at would nominally be classed as 'menial' or dirty jobs.....example......in a very large Scottish fishing port, I think it may have been Peterhead, they required Fish Porters.
Not one UK nationalality worker stuck it for even one shift.....a Polish guy came along, got on with it, and said that some of his mates would do it...it was reasonable money and it was work. He now runs an agency supplying Polish Fish Porters to every Scottish fishing port that needs them.......
My humble opinion is that there seems to be a whole tranche of folks who will complain about 'foriegn' workers, yet not get of their benefit fattened arse.
Remembering, that I live, work and compete with French artisans in a real commercial world.......and I am the 'foriegn' labour.........
,

[Monaro Pete]

Originally Posted by don simon

A I said immigrants are net contributors to the system, they pay more in than they take out. Financially there is no problem. Physical space is something we'll have do deal with, and in all honesty I don't understand why they come here.
I worked with a girl who booked an appointment every fortnight with the doc, just in case... Now there's a drain on resources.
A bigger drain is our lack of care for our own health, we smoke, we eat crap, we drink too much and don't do enough exercise.
I see millions being spent on schools (it's part of my job) and see schools where millions need to be spent on them. Surely if immigrants pay more into the system than they take out, we need more of them and not fewer. I see huge amounts of wastage, I see people destroying their own country and then blaming immigrant.
We will sink if we have to repatriate the pensioners and send the Natalias home.
There's nothing to disagree with.

What the migrants contribute to the system is irrelevant.
The fact is that like I said, we cannot continue to grow as we are.
The estimated time it will take to double our population of 65 million is 92 years. Whereas for Germany it will take 220 years, France 177 years, Italy 141years, Poland 1334 years, Belgium 134 years.
We cannot sustain the growth.

[macabethiel]

Originally Posted by Monaro Pete

What the migrants contribute to the system is irrelevant.
The fact is that like I said, we cannot continue to grow as we are.
The estimated time it will take to double our population of 65 million is 92 years. Whereas for Germany it will take 220 years, France 177 years, Italy 141years, Poland 1334 years, Belgium 134 years.
We cannot sustain the growth.

If we don't keep pace with population growth by having a younger demographic then how can we afford to pay for the health care of pensioners like me within the existing free NHS structure ?
Yes retirement age has increased but I can't figure out why retired workers like me are not paying National Insurance contributions it would be an easy tax to collect. When I turned 65 I effectively got a 8.3 % pay rise when NI stopped being deducted.

We have also been encouraging people to have more kids since the second world war by giving tax allowances to families with children in various forms. If you paid more tax for having more than say two children that might slow the growth a tad. After all barring accidents having children is a choice !

Germany and Japan have problems due to an aged workforce the average age being substantially higher than the UK.