Damp patch- Mission Creep !

[macabethiel]

A couple of weeks ago following some heavy rain noticed a damp patch in our lounge against an outside wall. Found a broken roof tile nearby so replaced it the next day

Last night after some rain touched the damp patch and it felt cold and wet. Drilled a small hole in the ceiling and water then dripped from the hole so fetched a tupperwear container to catch the drips. About half an egg cup full in all.

Investigation pointed me to the bathroom above and to the right of the damp patch. All seemed dry so Wife emptied the eaves so I could get directly above the damp area. I drilled a small hole as close to the bathroom as I could get and when I went into the lounge discovered that the damp patch was directly above the bathroom toilet.

I noticed that when I wiped the damp patch my finger turned green so thoughts changed from rain ingress to a leaking water pipe. Turned the main stop cock off and went to bed.
At About 1.30 am had a lightbulb moment and removed the plastic pipe trunking adjacent to the W/C to reveal an isolation valve for the W/C water supply. Placed some tissue around the isolation valve and it went soggy. Hard to see but with torch found water was dripping from the isolation valve screw itself.

This morning fitted new isolation valve all sorted leak fixed. Went to turn the water back on and now had a drip fron the stop cock in the downstairs W/C. Out to the water meter point on front pavement and turned off water. Removed stop cock body and took tap apart in downstairs W/C. All dipped in limescale remover, tap shaft rubbed with 1000 grit to remove oxidation. New tap washer fitted and gland cleaned.

Tap fitted back in place, water back on - no leaks all good. Wonder how much it would have cost me to have the leak investigated and fixed by a Tradesman?

Should be good for another 12 years hopefully. Have put small oil filled radiator below damp patch to dry it all out before decorating ceiling.

Wife just thinks I find more work on purpose to avoid "Housework" lol.

[solarman216]

Make a plumber of you yet, well done, cheap ball-o-fix suffer from spindle leaks, and main stop cocks get rarely used so often leak when operated, plumbers golden rule is to go back to it before leaving to check it is not weeping, prob would have cost you £80 to £100 to sort those two leaks but could have been less if all the stopcock needed was a nip up on the gland, roof tile minimum £100, one tile or 10 would make little difference, OH nearly forgot, you will need to apply stain block or good oil based undercoat to the ceiling befor you emulsion it, Rick

[iansjones]

Really nice move. Could have been costly if you hadn't spotted it.

[solarman216]

you may well be wondering why it showed when you had heavy rain, well it is because the plasterboard was well damp but not enough to cause a stain to show, but the heavy rain increased humidity which was attracted to the damp spot, which now made it wet enough to be come visible simples, Rick

[macabethiel]

Originally Posted by solarman216

Make a plumber of you yet, well done, cheap ball-o-fix suffer from spindle leaks, and main stop cocks get rarely used so often leak when operated, plumbers golden rule is to go back to it before leaving to check it is not weeping, prob would have cost you £80 to £100 to sort those two leaks but could have been less if all the stopcock needed was a nip up on the gland, roof tile minimum £100, one tile or 10 would make little difference, OH nearly forgot, you will need to apply stain block or good oil based undercoat to the ceiling befor you emulsion it, Rick

Good advice was going to use some radiator paint that I have spare it's a white spirit job to clean the brush so hope that will do the trick !

Had previously tightened the gland as there was the start of a Stalegtite hanging down from the tap thought I should do it properly !

[macabethiel]

Originally Posted by solarman216

you may well be wondering why it showed when you had heavy rain, well it is because the plasterboard was well damp but not enough to cause a stain to show, but the heavy rain increased humidity which was attracted to the damp spot, which now made it wet enough to be come visible simples, Rick

Interesting information thought it was me just linking two unconnected events !

[elty001]

I've always been told to open the stopcock fully then back it off 1/4 of a turn to stop it from seizing up

[solarman216]

Originally Posted by elty001

I've always been told to open the stopcock fully then back it off 1/4 of a turn to stop it from seizing up

yes good advice, open fully but only necessary to take it off the stop any more makes no difference, but more important is to exercise the valve every few months fully close then open and back off a little, this applies to gate valves and stop cocks, Rick

[rustic]

Originally Posted by elty001

I've always been told to open the stopcock fully then back it off 1/4 of a turn to stop it from seizing up

I always do that... gives you the opportunity to rotate each way to start to undo it if it is siezed.

[firebobby]

I work for the local water company and have been to many hundreds of customers who can't locate or find their OSV (out side valve) seized. Many customers are amazed when I find or un seize it, I give the OSV a sharp smack with a long bar and hammer, this I find will normally free up a seized OSV, I then turn the tap back and forth until it turns fully again. I always tell customers to never leave a tap fully open and operate it a couple of times a year. I also find that the older the OSV the more chance of it working.

[rustic]

When we go away for more than a day, I always turn off the stop cock.
Sometimes it develops a weep from the shaft, but a 1/16 tighten of the gland nut sorted.

Water can create havoc, more so if a small leak and goes unnoticed for years.

The other day, we had a reminder as to why we turn off the stop cock when we are away, I went into the down stairs cloak room, that I refurbished in March, just before my shoulder operation, to find a puddle of water on the floor, BEFORE I started to use the loo ...

The cause was a compression joint that has sat for months, dry as a bone, and at 7:00 pm decided to leak, a serious leak it was pouring out.

I had fitted isolators for that room, so easy to stop the leak.
On investigation, it was a compression olive failure, in the 40 years I have been doing DIY and refurbs for friends, this is the first ever failure.
I removed the section of pipe to the basin tap, and could see some green around the joint, so I opened it up, to check, the olive hadn't slipped on the pipe, but I did notice it was a brass olive that came with the fitting, it looked ok.
So I removed that section of pipe and refitted copper olives, and all is secure.

So I have decided never to use brass olives on modern copper pipe, as I think they are too hard, and have to be compressed more than their softer copper brothers to get a good seal and good mechanical connection.
I also think that modern 15mm copper pipe is either thinner walled or of poorer quality.

Does anyone else concur with this, or do you think I was a bit too handy with the spanners on first compression? Like I say, first ever failure, never had one fail on copper olives.

Rustic

[macabethiel]

Originally Posted by rustic

So I have decided never to use brass olives on modern copper pipe, as I think they are too hard, and have to be compressed more than their softer copper brothers to get a good seal and good mechanical connection.
I also think that modern 15mm copper pipe is either thinner walled or of poorer quality.

Does anyone else concur with this, or do you think I was a bit too handy with the spanners on first compression? Like I say, first ever failure, never had one fail on copper olives.

Rustic

The wall thickness of 15 mm copper is quite a bit thiner than the old 1/2 " it replaced. I too have noticed if you overtighten the compression fitting it distorts the pipe on modern stuff.
Trouble with brass as against copper is you get some galvanic corrosion due to the battery effect of dissimiliar metals. I try to buy the copper ones that have a double groove around them to make the compression easier.

[billycan]

when serving my time as a plumber it was allways drummed in to us to put a smear of jointing paste{boss white/jet blue}on the olive and pipe before inserting into compression fitting or even ptfe tape in 35 years I can count on one hand failed joints done that way,sad but true modern day fittings are crap and now my job title has been revised to "heating engineer" and they call it progress

[macabethiel]

Originally Posted by billycan

when serving my time as a plumber it was allways drummed in to us to put a smear of jointing paste{boss white/jet blue}on the olive and pipe before inserting into compression fitting or even ptfe tape in 35 years I can count on one hand failed joints done that way,sad but true modern day fittings are crap and now my job title has been revised to "heating engineer" and they call it progress

I tend to use Petrolium Jelly as the lubricant on pipe & olive for same reason. Not a fan of PTFE tape except on threaded pipework.