England Riots (because its not just London, is it)

[clivvy]

so I found it interesting to read, that the only people stepping up to protect their streets, were Turkish and Bengali residents. Good on 'em, I was amazed at this, and it made me feel a little bit more proud.

These riots have really got me down the last few days, its something I cant really get my head around. I live in Huddersfield, and there was trouble up at the Asda last night. ASDA? I mean, WHY?

These riots were never about Mark Duggan, they are not about anythig political, they are an excuse for bored thugs to gang together and create havoc. And they have done that, spectacularly. I have no idea, how law and order will be restored. The police have proved to be out numbered, and powerless, so how the hell are they going to catch these criminals, and stop this from happening again? They wont, what has happened here, is the thug-youths have been given a lease that has made them even more fearless.

I just hope that something is done, and I really hope that the rest of the country looks at what the Turkish and Bengalis did, and mirrors it. Its hard, and you have to be very brave, but I say well done to those people for protecting what they love.

[macabethiel]

You are right it is alarming especially when we can't see any simple explaination for it.

I do not think it has anything to do with the Race, Religion, Unemployment, the Economy, Policing or Political issues.

As with previous outbreaks of servere public disorder it is something that occurs in the summer when it is warmer and the bad behaviour seems to spread with the Media acting as a catalyst not the root cause.

The Common link seems to be mainly young males in groups realising that if there are enough of them they can do what they please without consequences for them.

I think the UK ought to look at forming some sort of National (Volunteer) Guard similar to what they have in the USA. It would take the pressure off the Police without using the Army and for those who volunteer it would give them a sense of identity and community spirit.

We have not had a war on our soil for a long time and testosterone fueled males do not have the outlets for street fighting as used to be the regular case at football matches, picket lines etc. I think it is un-nerving as it makes me feel helpless to protect my property if the need arose as one person is easily outnumbered by the mob.

If I had a suitable line of defence I would resort to it much as I would if I found an intruder in my house. With the adrenalin rush I am not sure my response would be either reasonable or proportionate I just hope it never happens to me as the outcome might be fatal to one of the participants even if it was me

[Liam]

Originally Posted by macabethiel

I think the UK ought to look at forming some sort of National (Volunteer) Guard similar to what they have in the USA. It would take the pressure off the Police without using the Army and for those who volunteer it would give them a sense of identity and community spirit.

Please don't take this the wrong way, it is meant as an observation of and not a criticism of your comment.

I think you raised an important point. When crap like this happens and honest citizens seek something like you have said (which seems very reasonable at first glance) the Government will probably rub their hands in glee, because here we have the public ASKING us to introduce harsher legislation and further erode people's rights. I believe most people, if they sit and think about current laws which they think go a bit too far, will realise that a lot of those laws were introduced by Government following public outrage at some perceived or real problem.

I think this is the nub of the problem, we put our faith and trust in Government to introduce laws to prevent things that we don't like from happening. A few minutes thinking about this would probably lead a person to the conclusion that the laws in themselves DO NOT PREVENT crap happening and also the criminals DO NOT CARE about the law as they choose a lifestyle outside the law. The only people who suffer are the honest law abiding person who has more and more of their freedom affected by these laws, the police can't stop the bad guys so they cruise around armed with these freedom restricting laws and woe betide any poor sod who is unluckyenough to cross their path, because they will apply the law to the letter on people who may breach some little known rule or regulation, especially if they are otherwise law abiding.

I think it would make for an interesting thread if people posted laws which have infringed on their freedom or at best have had little or no effect in achieving what it was introduced for.

I'll kick off with speed cameras, ban on smoking in pubs, ban on smoking upstairs on buses (now any buses), ASBOS, tagging, minimum sentencing,handgun ban, semi automatic rifle ban, knife amnesty. That will do for starters, I'm sure you can think up a few of your favourites.

Once again, Macabetheil, absolutely no criticism of your post intended.

[Deleted account DD]

Liam youve broadened the argument without suggesting a solution. if you added the appropriate caveats it would broaden it further.

ie in some areas sped cameras are excellent. Any smoking ban is excellent news..ask Roy Castle.....if you could.

The rule of law and the constitution will always infringe on your perceived freedom.

To get back on track i would quote a friend of mine.............

Looter?..........shoot on sight

[larson]

Originally Posted by daved

Looter?..........shoot on sight

my kind of thinking.. but i dont belive hanging should have stoped been used... each copper should have a tazzer and extra lead in the trunchon and not be punished for defending themselves.. especialy in a riot

this country is too p.c and thats why its in the state it is..

[macabethiel]

Originally Posted by Liam

Please don't take this the wrong way, it is meant as an observation of and not a criticism of your comment.

A long time ago I was chatting with a Senior Crown Prosecutor and he made a similar point in the days when we used to have informal meetings with the CPS in a local pub about Police Prosecution issues.

His view was that the law should loosly be based on what everyone in society knows is right or wrong the so called Common Law grounded in the ten commandments without it being encased in hundreds of statute laws brought in to plug the gaps in Common Law.

The Dangerous Dogs Act was a classic case of poorly framed legislation that is virtually un-enforcable except against the law abiding.

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by macabethiel

His view was that the law should loosly be based on what everyone in society knows is right or wrong the so called Common Law grounded in the ten commandments without it being encased in hundreds of statute laws brought in to plug the gaps in Common Law.

when i was at 6th form, our tutor (who was far too far to the left for my tastes) told us statute was the result of impatience in waiting on common law. Tend to agree.

[briggie]

Message to all the rioters .......... . u wanna be big men and fight to the death , well get your sorry little arses on the next plane to Afghanistan and stand alongside real men , they're called soldiers and they are fighting a war unlike you bunch of pathetic wastes of spaces...

[briggie]

oops , perhaps i shouldnt have said that , its totally unlike me to " lose it " , but i wont retract it

[jims-terrano]

went to fill the truck at my local morrisons, no where near any riots by the way. However West yorks Police have banned the sale of Jerry Can's and filling of Jerry Can's. Thank god I don't have a petrol mower

Jim

[makeitfit]

Originally Posted by larson

each copper should have a tazzer and extra lead in the trunchon and not be punished for defending themselves.. especialy in a riot

this country is too p.c and thats why its in the state it is..

Good point, well made
Fire brigade should also be allowed to turn their hoses on the twats too

Any rioters found guilty should be kicked out of their bloody council houses and their benefits stopped too.
All the under age twats should be lashed to a brush and get cleaning the mess, then sign them up the army cadets .

[glenbo]

Originally Posted by briggie

Message to all the rioters .......... . u wanna be big men and fight to the death , well get your sorry little arses on the next plane to Afghanistan and stand alongside real men , they're called soldiers and they are fighting a war unlike you bunch of pathetic wastes of spaces...

couldnt agree more

[Liam]

Originally Posted by daved

Liam youve broadened the argument without suggesting a solution. if you added the appropriate caveats it would broaden it further.

ie in some areas sped cameras are excellent. Any smoking ban is excellent news..ask Roy Castle.....if you could.

The rule of law and the constitution will always infringe on your perceived freedom.

To get back on track i would quote a friend of mine.............

Looter?..........shoot on sight

Solution? All my mates know that I have a huge big wooden spoon for stirring things but but haven't a clue how to fix anything
Any thinking person knows that the only solution is along the lines of what you said Looter= shoot them. Only problem is the do gooders will focus on the occasional individual who is looting to feed their family and cite that as a reason not to shoot looters.

Incidentally, didn't think you had a constitution over there, at least not one worth bothering about

[Liam]

Originally Posted by macabethiel

A long time ago I was chatting with a Senior Crown Prosecutor and he made a similar point in the days when we used to have informal meetings with the CPS in a local pub about Police Prosecution issues.

His view was that the law should loosly be based on what everyone in society knows is right or wrong the so called Common Law grounded in the ten commandments without it being encased in hundreds of statute laws brought in to plug the gaps in Common Law.

The Dangerous Dogs Act was a classic case of poorly framed legislation that is virtually un-enforcable except against the law abiding.

But don't some people think we need more and more laws, not seeing that they only have a choking effect on the law abiding.

[Midlander]

Originally Posted by Liam

I'll kick off with speed cameras, ban on smoking in pubs, ban on smoking upstairs on buses (now any buses), ASBOS, tagging, minimum sentencing,handgun ban, semi automatic rifle ban, knife amnesty. That will do for starters, I'm sure you can think up a few of your favourites.

I think you mean FULLY Automatic Rifle ban. I have a Semi Automatic in my Gun Cabinet as we speak....and A Very nice one it is too I might add