insurance

[eezelife]

Hi guys. I just got my first Mistral and was shocked by the insurance. I am 48 with 19 years no claims bonus. My old cover for a saab 900 2.0 was £195 fully comp. My new cover for the Mistral is £640 !!! It seems if I had a Terrano II it would be £303 for the same year (94) work it out???

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by eezelife

Hi guys. I just got my first Mistral and was shocked by the insurance. I am 48 with 19 years no claims bonus. My old cover for a saab 900 2.0 was £195 fully comp. My new cover for the Mistral is £640 !!! It seems if I had a Terrano II it would be £303 for the same year (94) work it out???

welcome

Thats shocking. Is there a message of sorts in there for Briggie and his fleet rates?????

[lacroupade]

Originally Posted by briggie

unfortunately , sheilas employer insist on fully comp insurance with class 1 business use on any vehicle she uses for her job

and no they dont contribute towards the expense of it , but she does get a fuel allowance of 38p a mile

Thats a rip off.

The max that HMRC allows is 40p a mile.

Fuel costs run out at around 25p/mile at the moment, leaving 13p a mile for you on that rate of 38p.

The rest of the calculation is a bit compex but goes roughly like this:

1. Take the approximate cost of normal (non-business) insurance, then pro-rata it for business versus private. e.g. insurance = £360p.a. and you do 4000 business and 6000 private then 40% of the insurance is attributable to business. In this case £144.

2. Take the whole of any uplift attributable to Class I business use....so say normal insurance is £360, and Class I is £660, then £300 is for business use.

3. Apply the same pro-rata in Point 1 to your VED (say £210 x 40% = £84)

4. Add the three together and divide by business mileage....in this case £144 + £300 + £84 = £528/4000 = 13.2p a mile.

So your mileage payment is swallowed already, and we haven't even got to tyres, exhaust, battery and servicing costs.....

So if they want business class insurance they should be paying for it.

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by lacroupade

The max that HMRC allows is 40p a mile.

Hmrc allow for what ?

As far as the rest of the maths goes im not sure where youve got it from but it definitely isnt the applied norm across the public sector, payments made bear that out !!!!!!

38p per mile for a pmv used on selected bussiness is a very fair amount in this day and age, trust me on that one. Iwas talking to a colleague from the local authority this afternoon after regarding a directive that our mileage allowances should be reduced to their level in the new round of Tom Winsor publications.

I can assure you he would kill to get that much and bo he does not get an essential users fixed sum

[(RIP) PLANK]

as a local government officer, i was getting 53p a mile back in 2000

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by PLANK

as a local government officer, i was getting 53p a mile back in 2000

Not far off 2/3 of that now for our local lads and lasses

Good times long gone, its not private sector you know

I think the tax threhold must have changed lately if Paul is right because I was getting over 40p tax free until recently.

[lacroupade]

Originally Posted by daved

Hmrc allow for what ?

As far as the rest of the maths goes im not sure where youve got it from but it definitely isnt the applied norm across the public sector, payments made bear that out !!!!!!

38p per mile for a pmv used on selected bussiness is a very fair amount in this day and age, trust me on that one. Iwas talking to a colleague from the local authority this afternoon after regarding a directive that our mileage allowances should be reduced to their level in the new round of Tom Winsor publications.

I can assure you he would kill to get that much and bo he does not get an essential users fixed sum

Its the maximum they allow an employer to pay you without starting to whack you for tax. Trust me I'm an absolute expert in this field mate and my sums are spot on!

That sort of rate is the norm in most NORMAL places ONLY for someone who is doing very low business mileage..anything more than that and you'd be expecting car allowance as well - or a hire car (see below).

You only have to go to the back pages of WhatCar and see what the running costs per mile are for any modern vehicle....if you are being paid any less then you're out of pocket and have to be an idiot to boot. When I was doing my MoD Logistics thing most of the support guys there were on image terms from having been TUPE'd in and were entitled to require a hire car if we wanted to send them more than a few miles, i.e. thats how the MoD still works.

I mean just look here for the PPM for a Jeep 3.0 CRD....

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by lacroupade

Its the maximum they allow an employer to pay you without starting to whack you for tax. Trust me I'm an absolute expert in this field mate and my sums are spot on!

no prob but until quite recently i was getting over 50p pm and NOT being taxed on it. As part of pay and conditions it went up and suddenly we all started paying extra tax.

Originally Posted by lacroupade

That sort of rate is the norm in most NORMAL places ONLY for someone who is doing very low business mileage

Ill have to disagree on that one. Altogether in the Local Authority side of our place there 9 of them and they all do a significant mileage , theyve had their essential user allowance taken off them but are still required to keep a car running for work! They get less than Briggie.

They are not alone either. Those terms and conditions are reflected across the country , theyve checked!

The Winsor report recommends our allowances are aligned to theirs. I cannot and will not be made to have a car on the road for work at those lower rates.

The hire car comes in for them (and us) for single trips where the return journey is 100 miles or over.

Thats based on the old mileage rates and the 100 miles is the cut off point where the hire car is cheaper and more economical TO THE JOB

Whatever the guidance , figures and hypothetical t&c's are out there the take it or leave it if you want to work for us attitude overules them all..

[lacroupade]

Originally Posted by daved

no prob but until quite recently i was getting over 50p pm and NOT being taxed on it. As part of pay and conditions it went up and suddenly we all started paying extra tax.



Ill have to disagree on that one. Altogether in the Local Authority side of our place there 9 of them and they all do a significant mileage , theyve had their essential user allowance taken off them but are still required to keep a car running for work! They get less than Briggie.

They are not alone either. Those terms and conditions are reflected across the country , theyve checked!

The Winsor report recommends our allowances are aligned to theirs. I cannot and will not be made to have a car on the road for work at those lower rates.

The hire car comes in for them (and us) for single trips where the return journey is 100 miles or over.

Thats based on the old mileage rates and the 100 miles is the cut off point where the hire car is cheaper and more economical TO THE JOB

Whatever the guidance , figures and hypothetical t&c's are out there the take it or leave it if you want to work for us attitude overules them all..

Then providing your employer doesn't do a Form P11D and you don't have to do a tax return, for gods sake don't tell the revenue.....because these are the rates, period, and you were getting 10p a mile of taxable benefit. It even shows you how to work the tax out non any excess

And like I say, whatever rate anyone is getting, if its less than their running costs and certainly less than the revenue maximum of 40p then you don't bother do you. Nobody can make you do private mileage and it doesn't make you unemployable. If its just a few odd miles then its no biggie, but for regular users, or in Sheilas case where she's burdened with the extra cost of business insurance, its not financially sound.

And this statement doesn't add up Dave - its completely contradictory:

"theyve had their essential user allowance taken off them but are still required to keep a car running for work"

Any half decent employment lawyer would wipe the floor with the employer if that was true...I suspect its been added to their salary because they can't be 'required' to make their private vehicle available for work.

[briggie]

Originally Posted by tezzer

i had the same problem with my discovery, my wife had a no fault claim and insurance went from £280 to £370, and i also added my son (32yrs) to policy, up again to £450. someone told me about " Graham Sykes " everything declared with son, £228 full comp, protected and they don't need your ncb, although they do hold it for you so you dont lose it.

http://www.graham-sykes.co.uk

worth a try,

they quoted £1700

[briggie]

just rung direct line up to tell them we have removed the tinted film on the rear windows ........ sheilas premium has now dropped by £16 per month ..... foofin stoopid innit ? ...... a lesson there perhaps

[TONUP]

I get 45p per mile, which I thought was a bit tight. I might not moan about it now. It went a lot further in 2001 though.

Still its budget day tomorrow and the chancellor is going show us how much he cares about his people by giving us something back on fuel costs... try not to hurt yourself when falling of chair laughing

Alan

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by lacroupade

And this statement doesn't add up Dave - its completely contradictory:

"theyve had their essential user allowance taken off them but are still required to keep a car running for work"

Any half decent employment lawyer would wipe the floor with the employer if that was true...I suspect its been added to their salary because they can't be 'required' to make their private vehicle available for work.

It does make sense and its the situation they find themselves in. They are required to attend external appointments in a timely and efficient manner, thats contractural.

Other than the 100 mile rule (which brings in trains etc), no other option is available although i do know someone who goes everywhere on his pushbike the only realistic viable option is to run a car .

Their employer offers them a given rate to use said car as part of their employment t&c s......contractural.

Thats the grey area but very carefully laid out.

You would be laughed out of the place for suggesting its been added to their salary.

The taxi option you mentioned in the public sector these days is cloud cuckoo land.

The old essential user was a lump sum per month as a retainer with a lower per mile rate. The per mile rate went up to compensate the loss of the lump but still hasnt reached 38p.

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by lacroupade

because these are the rates, period,

I have just been informed they have not been in that long, hence the change in ours to maintain our rate in pocket.

when did they come in?

I am assured that our payment was legit lawful and untaxed

We even had a tick box on our claim form for hmrc benifit which indicated if a given journey was in our opinion taxable. Several caveats applied to that and i did pay tax on a few claims however on the occasions I didnt tick , or i didnt put a claim in my tax paid was the same each month.

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by daved

I have just been informed they have not been in that long, hence the change in ours to maintain our rate in pocket.

when did they come in?

I am assured that our payment was legit lawful and untaxed

We even had a tick box on our claim form for hmrc benifit which indicated if a given journey was in our opinion taxable. Several caveats applied to that and i did pay tax on a few claims however on the occasions I didnt tick , or i didnt put a claim in my tax paid was the same each month.

apparently came in 2002