Info needed please

[AlexD333]

Morning all, another question, and quite an important one,

Ive been putting this off for some time but really, It needs to be sorted ASAP

My tyres (due to offset of wheels) are rubbing on chassis legs and also on body itself!!!

I am looking for a pair of wheel spacers (size debatable)

and new wheel studs as my wheels dont give me much space for the thread.

can anyone link some studs that are longer please? (that fit)

can anyone link some spacers or does anyone have some? :thumb2

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj616/Alexd333/two_zpsda66ed15.jpg (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/Alexd333/media/two_zpsda66ed15.jpg.html)

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj616/Alexd333/one_zpsed83fc5f.jpg (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/Alexd333/media/one_zpsed83fc5f.jpg.html)

[AlexD333]

Oh forgot to mention, this is only on articulation, but its starting to eat away at the body!!! :o:o:o

[bud]

new steel rims are cheap, why not just buy rims with a bigger offset?

[AlexD333]

new steel rims are cheap, why not just buy rims with a bigger offset?

Well to be honest, with the thread i have available i would rather get studs as it needs to be tackled anyway.

and it gives me a bit of an excuse to widen the wheels just a smidge :thumb2

[Fez_uk]

Well to be honest, with the thread i have available i would rather get studs as it needs to be tackled anyway.

and it gives me a bit of an excuse to widen the wheels just a smidge

The reason you don't have much thread as the metal on the alloys thicker.

Do it properly with better offset steel rims, I hate wheel spacers.

[AlexD333]

The reason you don't have much thread as the metal on the alloys thicker.

Do it properly with better offset steel rims, I hate wheel spacers.

Wish i had the money to go any buy then change over another set of wheels but cant be done.

Defo 2 cheap spacers n longer studs needed.

[Sweety]

Spacers are about £50 I think for 2 so not sure how that compares to say 2 new steel wheels with a bigger offset:augie In time i'll be getting spacers for mine but that due to me wanting to keep my alloys

[AlexD333]

Spacers are about £50 I think for 2 so not sure how that compares to say 2 new steel wheels with a bigger offset:augie In time i'll be getting spacers for mine but that due to me wanting to keep my alloys

well, my alloys do look kinda cool, dont forget labour on the cost of that too.

Im just not sure what type of studs to get. I need longer ones same thread. any ideas? :thumb2

[Barrbeast]

well, my alloys do look kinda cool, dont forget labour on the cost of that too.

Im just not sure what type of studs to get. I need longer ones same thread. any ideas? :thumb2

Getting two tyres swapped over should only cost about £20, you're gonna have labour charges for changing over wheel studs :nenau (assuming you're not going to attempt them yourself)

[R1cho]

you can get wheel stud extenders but dangerous to have them imho, as said better off getting some decent steels, i picked 4 up off ebay for £40 and got the tyres changed over for £5 a corner, so £60 all in alot cheaper than spacers and wheel stud extenders

[exosteve]

Steel wheels buddy.

[AlexD333]

but I like my wheels

wheres the cry emote?

[Lazy-Ferret]

Might be worth a bid on these....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30mm-Wheel-Spacers-6x139-Toyota-Landcruiser-Surf-Hilux-l200-Ford-Ranger-Shogun-/111435610527?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Wheels_tyre _Trims_Trims_ET&hash=item19f214799f

[AlexD333]

So can someone educate me on the dangers of spacers then? :nenau
:thumb2

[solarman216]

I bought mine when I broke one from the traders on the banger tracks, they carry a whole range, Arena Essex is the closest I know to you, any Sunday, then get some spacers, the prob with spacers is they stress everything more than normal, Rick

[AlexD333]

If I'm gonna get steels id want a set of 5 problem again is budget... :doh

Can anyone find some cheap ones? :nenau

[R1cho]

If I'm gonna get steels id want a set of 5 problem again is budget... :doh

Can anyone find some cheap ones? :nenau

try looking on ebay

[elty001]

Can pick up steelies new for not much dosh.
http://www.4x4tyres.co.uk/nissan/terrano-ii-from-00-to-06-c-8_39_573.html

[elty001]

Don't know what the off set is of these rims though just an example of price.
Mine are 8 j(8inch wide) with zero offset.
Off set is the position of the centre(where the wheel bolts on)on the rim.
I E mine has 4 inch each side of the centre making it zero.
Minus off set means it is set further in pushing the wheel out away from the car and positive brings the wheel closer.
You want to be looking for zero or minus offset to help with your clearance issues.

[AlexD333]

Don't know what the off set is of these rims though just an example of price.
Mine are 8 j(8inch wide) with zero offset.
Off set is the position of the centre(where the wheel bolts on)on the rim.
I E mine has 4 inch each side of the centre making it zero.
Minus off set means it is set further in pushing the wheel out away from the car and positive brings the wheel closer.
You want to be looking for zero or minus offset to help with your clearance issues.

Cheers my dears :thumb2

Still shame about my wheels though *tear emote*

I did actually find this site, couldn't figure out how to navigate it tho :o

[elty001]

Fit the spacers for now and save up for some steelies then sell on the spacers once you have got wheels sorted.
I am wanting some 10 j steelies but can't afford any just now so keeping my spacers on until I can:thumb2

[AlexD333]

I need to be careful here, if I go and buy steel wheels and they still rub I'm gonna be pissed :lol

Surely I could search (or ask this comp) for a negative offset wheel?

[The Patrolman]

the prob with spacers is they stress everything more than normal, Rick

If you change the wheel to one with a greater offset or fit wheel spacers the net effect is the same. The tyre sits further out from the bearing than standard.

I need some +30mm spacers so might just bid on the ones mentioned earlier. Alex if you want them and want to bid let me know so we are not bidding against each other as I'm not too bothered but for £60 they are what I'm after:thumb2

[kitchenman]

To my thinking moving the contact point further away from the bearing the load must increase
Would the insurance company accept this?

[AlexD333]

To my thinking moving the contact point further away from the bearing the load must increase
Would the insurance company accept this?

Already thought of this, I believe you would need wheel arch extenders to cover the protruding wheels. Not sure what else :nenau

[rustic]

... the prob with spacers is they stress everything more than normal, Rick

In the same way, so will negative offset wheels. :doh

The centre of the point load from the tyres is now further out, thus putting a greater force on the outer wheel bearing, and an increased force on the inner wheel bearing, which will be in opposition to the force on the outer.
In the 70's, mini owners were adding spacers, but wheel bearing failure was very common.

So what..
Expect increased wear on both bearings, the small play in the bearings will be exagerated due to the greater distance from the bearings, this will introduce a lot of wandering when driving.
The tracking and camber will also change if there is any play in the bearings, resulting in uneven tyre wear.

If you over adjust the bearings to remove any play, they might overheat, and fail.

Ball joints and track rod end wear, together with any steering box wear, will also be exaggerated whist driving.

If this occurs, then you need to limit your speed to a safe speed, probably better to have a guy walking in front with a red flag.:lol:lol:lol

So you might need to fit new bearings, new top and bottom ball joints, new track rod ends, new poly bushes etc.
The rear wheel bearings will also be affected, but the seal may fail early due to excess wear and LSD oil will then enter the rear brake drums. (This is what happened to mine when a rear bearing failed)...

Either way, now you are aware of the issues with spacers or negative offset wheels, you can monitor the play, and get the appropriate parts replaced, and adjustments made.

Note:-
The MOT tester will probably notice more play in the front wheels, because of the extra distance out from the bearings. exaggerating any other wear too :eek:
Something else to add to the list.:doh

[Fez_uk]

Think standard terrano rims have positive offset anyway rustic, Not saying both are ok, all depends on the offset and how and hard much you drive it. But parts will wear faster.

Main issue with spacers I have is theres an extra set if nuts to come loose (if it's that spacer type) which you can't check unless you take the wheel off.

[elty001]

I used locktite when I fitted my spacers.

[russell.huffer]

The Tyres are too big, if you fit spacers or negative offset wheels you will knock out wheel bearings so not really an option. Smaller Tyres is the way To go, cost wise I think you will find cutting through the chassis is the most expensive.

Kind regards

Russell.

[AlexD333]

The Tyres are too big, if you fit spacers or negative offset wheels you will knock out wheel bearings so not really an option. Smaller Tyres is the way To go, cost wise I think you will find cutting through the chassis is the most expensive.

Kind regards

Russell.

Tyres are not too big, elty is running 33's make it fit is running 35's

as mentioned its the offset of the wheels rubbing when on articulation :thumb2

EDIT - im running 32's

[Lazy-Ferret]

With regards to the bearings, I have often wondered about this. I understand how spacers will "up" the bearing wear, but not how wider wheels, with the correct offset should do this.

I can see that if you take the standard wheel, and just move it out on spacers by 2", that you are putting a twisting torque on the bearings, making a lever that is pushing up on the front bearing, and down on the rear one. This has to be bad.

Surely though, if you just fit wider tyres, and you keep the same amount of tyre on the inside of the bearing, then there should not really be that much extra load on the bearings.

My thinking is, very simplified, if the wheel is 8" wide, and the bearing is 2" over all, then with a wheel with no offset, you have 2" on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and 4" on the outside. If you up the wheels to 10", and put in a 2" offset, then you still have 2 inches on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and now have 6" on the outside. Why would that put any more wear on the bearing?


Tyres are not too big, elty is running 33's make it fit is running 35's

as mentioned its the offset of the wheels rubbing when on articulation :thumb2

EDIT - im running 32's

What I do not understand in Alex's case, is how his wheel size got larger

What is the actual size of the tyres, I know mine are 265/70 x 16, which means the width of the tyre is 265mm give or take a small amount. the 70% profile means that overall the hight of the wall with respect to the width of the tyre is 70% of 265mm, so the wall is 186mm high, so with my tyres, I end up with around 777mm overall wheel diameter, which is 30.5", and I get no rubbing. So basically, using standard number rounding, I could say I am running on 31's, which is the standard size for my car.

I know a lot of people, when they want to increase the diameter, just fit a bigger width tyre, which by default, makes the tyre diameter larger, when really, you should only be adjusting the profile, so instead of 70%, you should go for 80%, which would give 830mm (32.5") overall wheel, but the width would remain the same, and therefore, in theory, not cause fouling.

So in Alex's case, is the tyre rubbing because the width is greater now he has fitted bigger tyres, or is it because he has increased the articulation, and now the wheel is just getting to places it was never designed to get to. From the pictures, it looks like the tyres are rubbing regardless, so it must be a width issue, and while spacers would solve this, the best way for the long term survivability of the cars mechanics is to either move the tyres onto different wheels with a different offset, moving the tyre away from the body, and hoping it does not then hit the outside of the wheel arch, or better still, spend lots and lots of dish, and get new tyres that are thinner, with a much larger profile.

[AlexD333]

With regards to the bearings, I have often wondered about this. I understand how spacers will "up" the bearing wear, but not how wider wheels, with the correct offset should do this.

I can see that if you take the standard wheel, and just move it out on spacers by 2", that you are putting a twisting torque on the bearings, making a lever that is pushing up on the front bearing, and down on the rear one. This has to be bad.

Surely though, if you just fit wider tyres, and you keep the same amount of tyre on the inside of the bearing, then there should not really be that much extra load on the bearings.

My thinking is, very simplified, if the wheel is 8" wide, and the bearing is 2" over all, then with a wheel with no offset, you have 2" on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and 4" on the outside. If you up the wheels to 10", and put in a 2" offset, then you still have 2 inches on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and now have 6" on the outside. Why would that put any more wear on the bearing?




What I do not understand in Alex's case, is how his wheel size got larger

What is the actual size of the tyres, I know mine are 265/70 x 16, which means the width of the tyre is 265mm give or take a small amount. the 70% profile means that overall the hight of the wall with respect to the width of the tyre is 70% of 265mm, so the wall is 186mm high, so with my tyres, I end up with around 777mm overall wheel diameter, which is 30.5", and I get no rubbing. So basically, using standard number rounding, I could say I am running on 31's, which is the standard size for my car.

I know a lot of people, when they want to increase the diameter, just fit a bigger width tyre, which by default, makes the tyre diameter larger, when really, you should only be adjusting the profile, so instead of 70%, you should go for 80%, which would give 830mm (32.5") overall wheel, but the width would remain the same, and therefore, in theory, not cause fouling.

So in Alex's case, is the tyre rubbing because the width is greater now he has fitted bigger tyres, or is it because he has increased the articulation, and now the wheel is just getting to places it was never designed to get to. From the pictures, it looks like the tyres are rubbing regardless, so it must be a width issue, and while spacers would solve this, the best way for the long term survivability of the cars mechanics is to either move the tyres onto different wheels with a different offset, moving the tyre away from the body, and hoping it does not then hit the outside of the wheel arch, or better still, spend lots and lots of dish, and get new tyres that are thinner, with a much larger profile.

Cheers my dears, nice write up. Well me Elty and Steve were all lined up together, Steve is on 31's mine are bigger at 32 and also smaller than Eltys at 33, mine were advertised as 32's and are certaintly bigger than 31's and smaller than 33's :thumb2

I cant remember for sure but seem to remember it rubbing only when offroading (before the rear arbs were removed)

removing the rear arb has obviously given it a huge amount of flex but I dont believe this to be the issue. The issue lies with the wheels I have chosen, they came off an Mitsubishi L200. We did encounter problems when going to fit these, the studs were quite short for the nut and also the shape of the alloy prevented us from fitting the original nuts.

I am going to ring the tyre/wheel place shortly and ask for their advise, but am thinking of getting a negative offset set of steel wheels, the question is, by how much :eek: :nenau

[Barrbeast]

I am going to ring the tyre/wheel place shortly and ask for their advise, but am thinking of getting a negative offset set of steel wheels, the question is, by how much :eek: :nenau

Alex mate, nobody, not even the tyre place, will be able to tell you that without knowing the exact size of the tyre eg. mine are 265/75/16, (we need to know the width) and the offset of your original wheels...

[Fez_uk]

lazy ferret, in basic terms Wider tyres & wheel = more weight

Puts more stress on bearings, steering, suspension etc

[Fez_uk]

Alex you want minimum offset -10 or -20 will do it. But the chances of finding that offset without paying a few quid extra for that offset are low as most are -30.

You will always get some rubbing on the body work, Unless you make your arches bigger.

[elty001]

I think your main problem Alex,is the offset of the wheels you have on now.
combined with the tyre size its causing yours to rub on full articulation.
not 100% sure on your tyre size but i think they are 265/75/16.metric equivalent to 32 11.50 16.
when I had this size tyre on standard terrano 16 inch rims they where fine on the rear but rubbed on the steering arm on the bottom of the pas box so thats when I fitted 30mm spacers to give it the clearance.

[AlexD333]

I think your main problem Alex,is the offset of the wheels you have on now.
combined with the tyre size its causing yours to rub on full articulation.
not 100% sure on your tyre size but i think they are 265/75/16.metric equivalent to 32 11.50 16.
when I had this size tyre on standard terrano 16 inch rims they where fine on the rear but rubbed on the steering arm on the bottom of the pas box so thats when I fitted 30mm spacers to give it the clearance.

yes they are 265/75/16 :thumb2

and I dont mind the arches rubbing id just cut them, but the arches are not rubbing, this is the chassis and the floor under the seats rubbing. It will eventually go through if I dont do something about it :p

Im pretty sure i've (fez) answered my own question, i need wheels with an offset of -20 or -30 and if this rubs on the arches then out comes the grinder again! :sly

my fronts also catch on full lock slightly aswell

[AlexD333]

This is getting a bit tricky on budget, unfortunately I might have to get spacers for the rear and new studs, even if only a temp fix.

I do love the look of my wheels so gives me incentive to keep em :lol

is a spacer going to make much difference compared to an offset wheel? :nenau

Im going to open a new thread about spacers n studs :thumb2

[rustic]

...My thinking is, very simplified, if the wheel is 8" wide, and the bearing is 2" over all, then with a wheel with no offset, you have 2" on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and 4" on the outside. If you up the wheels to 10", and put in a 2" offset, then you still have 2 inches on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and now have 6" on the outside. Why would that put any more wear on the bearing?...


You have to assume that the weight of the car is carried by the centre of the tyre /wheel for your calculations, and in your scenario, the centre of the tyre has moved outwards, hence the greater load.
Hope that explains it.:thumbs

Rustic

[AlexD333]

You have to assume that the weight of the car is carried by the centre of the tyre /wheel for your calculations, and in your scenario, the centre of the tyre has moved outwards, hence the greater load.
Hope that explains it.:thumbs

Rustic

Very good explanation actually! :thumb2

[bud]

Alex most nissan's with wide body or flares from factory run factory negative offset, patrols, R3m terrano pathfinder, etc and by the looks of your rub you only need 10mm or so to fix the issue so a set of factory safari/patrol rims with a minus 18 or 22 offset would be fine.

[elty001]

This is getting a bit tricky on budget, unfortunately I might have to get spacers for the rear and new studs, even if only a temp fix.

I do love the look of my wheels so gives me incentive to keep em :lol

is a spacer going to make much difference compared to an offset wheel? :nenau



Im going to open a new thread about spacers n studs :thumb2

If you buy the hub centric spacers like the ones in the link then no need to fit longer studs.
They bolt onto your existing studs and have studs pressed into the spacer that you bolt the wheels to.

[rustic]

...Im going to open a new "thread" about spacers n "studs" :thumb2

You must be "nuts" if you get my "pitch" ...
:lol:lol:lol

[Sweety]

If you buy the hub centric spacers like the ones in the link then no need to fit longer studs.


Either i've gone blind due to stress over my truck or I can't find the link for the spacers:lol 25-30mm would be what I want as would like the wheel track a bit wider & there is no way i'm fitting steel rims any time soon as I love my alloys even if tyres are really costly:doh

[AlexD333]

If you buy the hub centric spacers like the ones in the link then no need to fit longer studs.
They bolt onto your existing studs and have studs pressed into the spacer that you bolt the wheels to.

Ah this would be great! And I guess with the wheels off (fitting the spacers) there would be loads of available thread for the spacers and then for the wheels to bolt to also :thumb2

This ticks all the boxes, I will have a look for this :thumb2

[elty001]

Either i've gone blind due to stress over my truck or I can't find the link for the spacers:lol 25-30mm would be what I want as would like the wheel track a bit wider & there is no way i'm fitting steel rims any time soon as I love my alloys even if tyres are really costly:doh

there is a link to ebay on the first page of this thread:thumb2
I'm sure there is a member on here that makes the hub centric spacers to what thickness you want.

[elty001]

Been up to milners earlier and although they don't stock them in 15" they can get -20 offset steelies in for 45 quid a pop.
Got 16" ones in Alex if you want to give them a call.
Not far off the same price of new quality billet steel spacers.