Vehicle weight

[nejones]

Does anyone know the stated laden or unladen weight of a 1996 T2 lwb petrol please.

Trying to work out what size winch I'll need if I go down that route.

 

[mav]

Just found this when doing a search for you via the search tab.

For info.

I weighed my '96 T2 2.7 diesel LWB today, with half a tank, without occupants and no 'extra gear' it showed 1940 kg (X 2.2 = 4628 lb).

Mav.

 

[nejones]

Thanks Mav I did search and found that, but mine is the petrol. Would it make much difference?.

 

[mav]

Hello again Nejones,
Just had a quick look at the paper manual but can not find a weight for the petrol, Surely there cannot be that much difference in the weights :? .

Mav.

 

[Deleted Member S]

TBH I would think they will be around the same sort of weight :roll: but it won't make to much difference as you'll need a winch which will pull far more than what your truck weighs anyway :smile:

 

[Terranosaurus]

TBH I would think they will be around the same sort of weight :roll: but it won't make to much difference as you'll need a winch which will pull far more than what your truck weighs anyway :smile:

As sweety says above

Also th erating on a winch say 12000lb (which is what most people go for tbh) is with no rope on the drum, as soon as you put one layer of rope on the drum you increase the gearing/line rate and the pulling capacity goes down, as you rarely empty the drum you are often only actually able to use about half the rated capacity.

You'll find this a very useful read

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/index.html

One of the pertinent bits in it is

Calculating the force of a recovery operation:

This is a critical step in both the conduct of a winch recovery (because you need to be absolutely sure that EVERY single piece of equipment used in the task is strong enough and will not fail and thereby endanger life and limb), and in the selection/purchase and decision to use a piece of recovery equipment. It is a calculation where, quite frankly, the manufacturer's recommendations are woefully inadequate. Why? Simply because if they let you in on how large the forces really are, it would leave you realizing that they are unable to economically produce a winch of sufficient capacity in anything resembling a small, light, or economical enough package. They get away with it, because, as I said, there are virtually no regulations or standards governing the industry. I'm not saying all 4x4 winches are inadequate, dangerous, or useless. But I am saying that the forces involved are often much greater than the manufacturer's would have you believe, and you will be far more capable and SAFER if you approach your 4x4 recovery KNOWING THIS, and knowing the real numbers. Realize, that for reasons of practicality and economics, your 4x4 recovery equipment is almost certainly undersized.....you can still do the job, using the correct techniques, but you will be much SAFER if you keep this in mind. Enough of the pre-amble.

Most, if not all, winch manufacturers will tell you to select a winch based on 1.5 times the gross vehicle weight. This often leads to less than satisfactory results for 2 reasons:

1) Most people are terrible at actually estimating the gross weight of their rig as it sits on the trail, full of gas, tools, equipment, food, camping gear, people, the dog...everything. Heck, in some cases the real figure can actually exceed the GVWR of the vehicle. Simple advice here - either err WAY on the heavy side, or get your rig weighed in trail trim.

2) More importantly, the "effective weight" of a "stuck" 4x4 is very often FAR more than 1.5 times the GVW. The following data on how to more accurately estimate the "effective weight", is taken from the world of professional heavy recovery - the guys that recover Tractor-trailers that have flipped on their side for instance, as well as U.S., Canadian, and UK Military recovery manuals.

Once you have accurately estimated or measured the trucks loaded weight (LW) you can calculate the resistance to be overcome in any recovery situation (this is commonly known as the ROLLING resistance). There are 4 types of resistance that must be accounted for to accurately assess the resistance that must be overcome. These are surface resistance, damage resistance, mire (stuck) resistance and grade (slope) resistance. Calculate them all as follows:
Surface resistance

A pull of 1/10 LW will cause a free wheeling truck to move on a hard, level surface.

A pull of 1/3 LW will cause a free wheeling truck to move on a softer surface, such as grass or gravel,
Damage resistance:

A pull of 2/3 LW will be required to move if the wheels cannot rotate (as if the brakes were fully applied), the pull required to overcome the resistance (drag) the truck id 2/3 or 67% of the LW. Damage resistance includes surface resistance (i.e. you only use one or the other)
Stuck (mire) resistance:

A pull of 100% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to a depth of the sidewall on the tires.

A pull of 200% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to the hubs.

A pull of 300% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to the frame..

Mire resistance includes damage resistance (i.e. you only use one or the other)
Grade (slope) resistance:

Upgrade (vehicle has to be recovered up a slope or grade)

15 degrees - add 25% of LW

30 degrees - add 50% of LW

45 degrees - add 75% of LW

Vehicle recovery on level ground - no correction

Downgrade (vehicle has to be recovered down a slope or grade)

15 degrees - subtract 25% of LW

30 degrees - subtract 50% of LW

45 degrees - subtract 75% of LW
Final figure:

Add surface or damage or mire resistance and grade resistance, and this is your final figure or rolling resistance. This is the amount of pull the winch must apply in order to recover the stuck vehicle.
Example:

My trail rig fully kitted out weighs in at 5000 lbs. I get stuck down a rock ravine that's about 45 degrees steep, and there are big rocks up to the frame hanging it up. Rolling resistance is 5000lbs x 3 + (5000 x 0.75) = 18,750 lbs. As you can see, this is significantly more than the 5000lbs x 1.5 - 7500lbs the manufacturers would have you believe. You may be wondering how one could ever possibly recover the vehicle in this example, given that the largest commercially available 4x4 recovery winch is 15000 lbs and that most are in the 8-9000lb range. The answer is by using multi-line rigging, which we shall explore in a moment.

Here's a simple flowchart that provides the same info:

You'll see from the above that you can easily get to 3 times the vehicle weight required to recovery it. Its a fact of winches that once you have one you will spend more time pulling other people out with it than yourself. When stuck somewhere, forwards is rarely the best direction to go to get unstuck, hence you usually end up being pulled out by someone else and likewise you will pull other people out.

 

[nejones]

So irrespective of what most people buy I reckon I need @ least a 12,000lb winch to cover nearly all possible scenarios.

I'm not really looking much for recovering others, though when out with Discoveries that usually happens, :wink: but to have something for self recovery.

 

[elty001]

winches

did my crane operators course not long ago and that opened my eyes to what you can safely lift and much of what i learned can be applied to winches.never had one myself as i dont go that extreme but if i did get stuck it would be nice to know the kit is up to the job.