Urgent - please object

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lacroupade

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
9,208
Guys

I've started this as a new thread so as to attract maximum attention. A bit like Terra's recent plea for objections about potential closure of some Yorks routes, we need you to object, by email or letter, to the potential closure of another important route in South Wales, in this case Sarn Helen.

There is a proposal before the council to reduce access to less than three months of the year, between June and late August, which will seriously restrict its use.

The nub of it is that this route has been left to its own devices for many years, with no maintenance, while being badly eroded by a number of users, but particularly vehicles belonging Walters, a local civil engineering firm that owns large tracts of local land that has been used for open-cast mining, gravel extraction etc.. As well as seriously damaging parts of this route, Walters frequently block the Sarn (which is an ancient Roman road) to allow motorsports events, hosted by them, to cross or use sections of it (they own a large parcel of land which has a motorsports arena on it). Many of these closures are unlicensed and illegal.

Walters has been pressing the council for closure of the Sarn for some time, citing illegal access to their site from the ROW - which is of course an irrelevance since all they need to do is fence their property off from it. Instead they have taken to blocking the Sarn itself at times with boulders and trees.

The following text has been obtained by Extreme from the guy helping to steer the objections, representing ROWAN (Rights of Way Alliance Neath), and covers the issues you might want to cite in your objection....but please be careful to use your own words or interpretation - your objection need not be as detailed in all cases. Its WELL WORTH doing, since feedback is that once the scale of objection is clear, the council will recognise its responsibilities and overturn the proposal.

To make a brief objection to this new TRO to Neath Port-Talbot Council by emailing or writing to;

Clive Williams
Principal Countryside Access Officer
Environmental Directorate
Neath Port-Talbot Council
The Quays
Brunel Way
Baglan Energy Parks
Briton Ferry
Neath SA11 2GG
[email protected]

01639 686196

Copies of all letters / emails will be placed before the Councillors who sit on the Environment & Highways Scrutiny Committee/ Cabinet Board. I've sat in a meeting with them recently, they're very fair & decent & I'm very confident that they will not allow this through once they gauge the full extent of opposition. The key issues to mention in the letter;
The extended TRO is being requested due to;
1) Ongoing damage to the road surface &
2) To improve the amenity of the area through which the road runs.
Re. 1) The surface of the Sarn Helen Roman Road IS in a mess, that's not in dispute. It's in a mess because the local authority allowed the suface to be ruined over many years when the opencast colliery was operating and didn't make them repair the road when they packed up & left. Since then, there has been NO maintenance. It is a naturally wet & boggy terrain, there has been no attention to existing drainage or no thought to new drainage solutions. It is used by heavy Plant belonging to the landowner, as well as a variety of vehicles participating in rallies, speed trials, off-roading & 4x4 events, (under the umbrella of Walters Motorsports).
Re. 2) The 'amenity' is a mixed use forestry / mineral extraction facility with quarrying & opencast still functioning within the immediate locality. There is heavy Plant & agricultural traffic passing though as well as all the motor-sports events that are held there. The landowner has obtained permission to install wind-turbines & a waste processing / waste transfer station. The landowner appears to be doing their level best to ruin the area - how on earth can they claim to wish to improve the amenity by excluding public traffic?
Some of the locals who enjoy this amenity have worked hard to keep the road surface in some sort of basic order, as well as keeping the hedges, trees, & other foliage cut back off the road.
You may also wish to mention the status of this road as one of the UK's more attractive facilities to leisure based off-roaders, cyclists, etc. As well as the fact that it has been in use by the public for the best part of 2 Millennia! And it's well-used by disabled people for leisure & recreational purposes which will be stopped if the TRO extension is agreed.

IMPORTANT - please help us to monitor the number of objections by adding a post if you've been able to email the council for us? And of course you don't need to live anywhere near Wales to object - just the intent to drive this historical route one day will suffice.
THANKS Paul & Colin.:thumb2:thumb2:thumb2
 
Oh and here is a copy of the order - objections need to be in by 22nd July latest - YOU CAN ALL HELP!!
 

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Oh and here is a copy of the order - objections need to be in by 22nd July latest - YOU CAN ALL HELP!!


On writing to the Council, while emails are acceptable, in Ireland we find that posted letters have a better effect as they indicate that the writer has taken the time and trouble to get an envelope,stamp and take a trip to post it. Anyone can sit at a PC and email an objection and they are sometimes taken a little less seriously than a posted letter. Might be different in the UK but worth considering.
 
On writing to the Council, while emails are acceptable, in Ireland we find that posted letters have a better effect as they indicate that the writer has taken the time and trouble to get an envelope,stamp and take a trip to post it. Anyone can sit at a PC and email an objection and they are sometimes taken a little less seriously than a posted letter. Might be different in the UK but worth considering.

GOOD POINT LIAM.

So guys, if you can be bothered, why not emil then print it off and pop it in an envelope and post it as well.....? Thanks.
 
Heres mine just sent...
=======================
Dear Mr Williams

CLOSURE OF BYWAYS 21,22,23 and 39



I wish to lodge the strongest possible objections to the above proposal.

As a user of this ROW and a resident of South Wales, I am appalled at the conduct of the local landowner Walters, which has not only caused untold environmental damage as a result of its many and continuing operations in the area, but has consistently abused the rights of locals by exercising its own unlicensed closure of the Sarn on many occasions in order to benefit its local motorsports events.

These closures have in many cases been completely unauthorised and illegal, as well as putting many people at personal risk and I therefore find the appendices to the Minutes of the Environment and Highways Board meeting of 17th June, listing numerous acts of alleged trespass on to Walters land somewhat ironic to say the least. If the company took the trouble to fence its property and control the multiple other access points they would have far fewer problems I am sure...but to propose to the council that closure of the Sarn will play a large part in securing their property is entirely inappropriate.

I am reasonably confident, however, that the members of the council are rather more perceptive. As you will no doubt be aware, there are a large number of vehicular users of this route for recreational purposes, including disabled and other interests. There are also a very large number of volunteer resources only too willing to help with regular maintenance work to preserve its viability, as well as appropriate signing and defining of the route to help minimise collateral damage caused when vehicles have been forced to deviate from the route by impassable sections. Indeed I am sure you will receive formal objections from user groups with such skills.

Such routes are a rare and precious commodity to the general community - I think I am right in saying that less than 1.5% of ROWs in Wales (compared to a figure of 2% for England) have vehicular access, making it absolutely vital that this shrinking asset is preserved for the enjoyment of all.

I believe the existing TRO, for closure for three months of the year between January and March, is more than adequate to allow for rest and recovery during the wettest months of the year, and if the damage caused by industrial traffic, as well as drainage issues, are addressed, the deterioration that has resulted (and which has been left unaddressed for many years) can be quickly reversed. With appropriate guidance and help from the council, the willingness, experience and resources certainly exist to do that.

I hope, therefore, that you will give my objection, and the many others that I hope you will receive, your most careful consideration and that common sense will prevail for the benefit of all.

Your acknowledgment of this correspondence would be much appreciated. Thank you for your kind attention.

Sincerely

Paul Lovegrove
Glanrhyderryd, Llandovery, Dyfed.
 
done,

email and snail mail....................

now get yer ass down here for a pleasant drive and a meet! :):)

Dave do you think its also worth a formal objection from this site/club, including an offer of volunteer resources, if Bat is OK with it?
 
I'd say that's a great idea, certainly offer free labour..... can only help the cause, mention GLASS and CRAG as well as the BBNP have had dealings with both before, best to work in concert I think, I'd also mention that this proposed closure will be mentioned in various 4x4 magazines as well....... the threat of negative publicity carries weight, I know that land rover owner internation are aware as are others, if someone has an in road into TOR (no pun intended) that would be good as well.
 
Thanks Dave - whats TOR BTW?

EARTH CALLING BAT?? Are you happy to do this for us? If you want me to draft the words I'm happy to do so...?

PAUL
 
urgent please object

MY LETTER OF OBJECTION.

DEAR MR WILLIAMS

CLOSURE OF BYWAYS 21,22,23 and 39
SARN HELEN


I wish to lodge the strongest possible objections to the above proposal.
As a user of this ROW while on holidays in Wales for some years .
Such routes are a rare and precious treat to drive .
my wife and i are not as able bodied as we would like to be ,and find walking far to difficult.
The existing TRO for three months of the year is more than adequate to allow for rest and recovery during the wettest months of the year,
I ask that you will give my objection, and the many others that I hope you will receive, careful consideration and that common sense will prevail for the benefit of all.
An acknowledgment of this correspondence would be much appreciated.
Thank you for your kind attention.

Yours Sincerely.
Ian Douglas.Lockley. age55
address removed
member of nissan 4x4 owners club ,
central off road club, mud club,
landrover owners club.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
REPRODUCED IN PART FROM Lacroupades letter
thanks buddy
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Total off Road



magazine......................................
 
Ah!.

NICE ONE IAN!:clap:clap

Come on everyone else, please just stick your name up if you've managed to send a mail or letter - its very little effort to keep these resources available country-wide! :thumb2:thumb2:thumb2
 
Paul, the excuse Walters are using of unlawful access to their prem could be severely flawed.

They cannot block off access roads because of an insecure site. They need to secure the site itself. You cant seal off the A1 because theres been a few burglaries in say Peterborough!!!! The access route is the cheap easy hit.

They should be challenged to evidence the damage/access problems, they should realy have reported each and every one to the local police for recording if nothing else and their intellignce system as well as crime recording should show it. if its not recorded it didn't happen.

If it is and their site is secure theyve got a valid argument...........if its otherwise..............:thumb2 I have my suspicions.
 
Paul, the excuse Walters are using of unlawful access to their prem could be severely flawed.

They cannot block off access roads because of an insecure site. They need to secure the site itself. You cant seal off the A1 because theres been a few burglaries in say Peterborough!!!! The access route is the cheap easy hit.

They should be challenged to evidence the damage/access problems, they should realy have reported each and every one to the local police for recording if nothing else and their intellignce system as well as crime recording should show it. if its not recorded it didn't happen.

If it is and their site is secure theyve got a valid argument...........if its otherwise..............:thumb2 I have my suspicions.

The council haven't helped by asking Walters to maintain a diary (interestingly the majority of transgressions are mostly motorbikes and the odd car wanting to play WRC on their arena. But Walters are a long standing local PITA with big ambitions...if you are at the beach party 8th Aug Colin will show you the documents he got from the ROWAN organiser, very interesting.

They are also trying to get a byway (not open to vehicular traffic) converted for use for their motorsports events. They also have apparently 28 days a year when their site (which is predominantly mineral/gravel extraction) can be used for 'other purposes'. So far this year they are up to 51 days of 'other use', mainly around motorsport type events. Thats fine in some ways, we need such things, but in a controlled manner and in the right place.
 
The council haven't helped by asking Walters to maintain a diary (interestingly the majority of transgressions are mostly motorbikes and the odd car wanting to play WRC on their arena. But Walters are a long standing local PITA with big ambitions...if you are at the beach party 8th Aug Colin will show you the documents he got from the ROWAN organiser, very interesting.

They are also trying to get a byway (not open to vehicular traffic) converted for use for their motorsports events. They also have apparently 28 days a year when their site (which is predominantly mineral/gravel extraction) can be used for 'other purposes'. So far this year they are up to 51 days of 'other use', mainly around motorsport type events. Thats fine in some ways, we need such things, but in a controlled manner and in the right place.

The 28 day rule comes under a variation in the nerca/defra regulations on what used to be called 'setaside'. The tightening of the regulations meant that landowners couldn't claim loss of use through unsuitability AND then let the land out for motorsport activities, thereby getting money for the land from both government and sports events. Essentially, they're asking for a closure of a right of way so that they can expand existing land use for the purpose of motor sport, whilst I'm not opposed to motor sport, I am opposed to unnecessary closure of rights of way just to suit the applicants pocket... If they have 51 days use, then the land is dedicated to motor sport, which I'm surprised the BBNP haven't done something about........ must be some clout in that business. Brown envelopes and the like spring to mind.
I'd suggest exposing the whole thing to the press, good story, corruption in high places etc, not a nice campaign but effective.
 
Might be a way to go, perhaps challenging the council on the issue first....how do we find out what might be happening elsewhere - don't want to tread on toes, undermine or duplicate effort needlessly....
 
that's why I copied some of one of the posts onto the CRAG forum asking for info, we should know by the end of the day I hope..........
 
paul dave your welcome to send each other copies of the documents i aquired. but i got to have them back asap.

or post them to acelot but quick i will need them returned ......fast
 
paul dave your welcome to send each other copies of the documents i aquired. but i got to have them back asap.

or post them to acelot but quick i will need them returned ......fast

Col I'm in Llandovery til Thursday night so you can have 'em back when you arrive in Oxford Friday - is that OK? I can try and scan them Thursday (left them at home) for distribution.

Have you got to get them back to the man?
 
bump.....come on lads, need more objections....

colin - chris williams says: "The Council Committee when this will be voted on is actually on the 3rd Sept from 10:30am, (unless altered in between times).

The only other thing you can do that I can think of is to mail anyone in you email address book who might send in an objection & contact other clubs, (I'm sure I only hit on about half of them)."


so if anyone has an 'in' to any other 4x4 sites.....make sure they know about this if you can.
 

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