Starting issues

[Flying Torquewrench]

Y61 1998 2.8TD

Hi All,

My Patrol has develloped some starting problems. First thing in the morning she starts absolutely fine, fires up within seconds. However yesterday I driven from Gatwick Airport to Worthing (+/- 35 miles) switched the engine off and when trying to start it 4 hours later it took about 10 seconds of crancking before she slowly sputtered into life.

After a 10 minute drive we arrived at our destination and when trying to start the car 15 minutes later exactly the same happened. Then later on in the day after the engine had been off for about 5 hours she once again struggled to get to life.

This morning she fired up immediately.

Any ideas what could be the reason for this?

The battery looses charge when I don't use the car for longer periods of time (+/- 2 weeks) and it struggles to crank the engine. Battery has been recharged and she cranks as usual, also when she struggles to fire up she cranks at her usual rate. Once the enigne runs it runs as smooth as ever.

 

[clivvy]

it could still be your battery - i'd fit a new one, or try borrow one to test the theory for a day. Otherwise, consider your CKP sensor - works fine when cold, not so good when hot if the CKP is old-its just a magnet and its affected negatively by heat, hence the issue when the engine is hot. Not saying it this, but its something to consider.:thumbs

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Clivvy,

Please don't take this the wrong way as I am not disagreeing with what you say. But could you please explain to me how the battery could be at fault?

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Taken the car to my friendly mechanic.

He checked the battery which is passed to seperate and different tests. There were no faults in the memory so we troubleshooted a bit further.

Disconnected the Crankshaft position sensor and the resistance should be between 800-1200ohm and this was 1172ohm so just within limits. Next sensor we looked at was the coolant temperature sensor and that was also within range.

Electronically there seems to be nothing wrong with the engine. Next system to look at is the fuel system. As the tank has been dry for two years some debris might have come loose now the tank gets filled up regularly.

Going away for a few days but will replace the fuel filter when I get back.

Any other ideas please keep them coming. I will reply when back home on mondag night.

 

[solarman216]

Hmmm seems ok cold but not so good hot/warm, think that rules out fuel problems, think I would be looking at weak/temperature sensitive glow plug relay and or glow plug connections, Rick

 

[clivvy]

Clivvy,

Please don't take this the wrong way as I am not disagreeing with what you say. But could you please explain to me how the battery could be at fault?

No problem. All I'm thinking is-weak battery at higher temps, I.e. is the battery getting too hot? Also, with the ckp hopefully its OK but they fail at higher temperatures....

 

[Klunker]

Mine does this.

I was just going to post a question regarding EGR valves.

Starts first kick in the morning, when warm, you need to give it a press of the pedal, before trying to start it, and it sometimes takes a bit longer starting.

I had a Pajero a few years back, and the same thing happened, I blocked the EGR valve and put a ball bearing in the actuator vacuum hose (Was a fix for sticky EGR valves)

This worked a treat and it never had that problem again.

I was looking for the EGR valve the other day, and saw what looks like it (Right hand side of the engine), just wondered if there was a similar workaround for the Patrol.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Clivvy,

thanks for the explanation. The battery doesn't get hot at all and even when the engine is still warm the battery cranks the engine at the same speed as with a cold engine.

Rick,

the glow plug relay has always had its oddities. If i start the engine as soon as the glow plug light on the dash has gone out then I get a big plume of smoke. In general I need to wait for another 4/5 seconds after the light has gone out and then it starts without any smoke.

It seems to me that the glow plug connections are fine as the car runs fine once started. I would expect it to run rough if one glow plug is not working??

Klunker,

how long have you had this problem with the car? Mine only started giving problems a week ago. Had planned on taking my car to Birmingham in a weeks time but a bit reluctant at the moment as I don't want it to refuse to start at all. (don't know about the EGR valve)

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Just did some further research on the net. Ende up on the Australian Patrol forum and the problem seems to be very common to the 2.8td.

In a large percentage of the cases it turns out that it is a worn out fuel pump housing. See the reply from a repair shop.

Without getting into the complexities of the real problem with the fuel pump, the advance plate and special o'ring you are talking about is not made by us but is available as a genuine spare part from Nissan. Basically the short story is the fuel pump suffers from wear in the housing from the 'shuttle' moving back and forth in the pump housing thus creating a wear point in the housing. When the advance plate and o'ring is fitted it then moves the 'shuttle' to a new position in the housing which tends to overcome the hard to start problem. It may also cause the fuel mixtures to go excessively rich which in turn creates another problem. It can also have a dramatic effect on the mixtures of a vehicle that has an after market chip fitted, which when the chip is fitted normally increases the fuel supply to the engine.
So I guess that it all comes down to having the situation diagnosed correctly and we believe that the only way the fix the problem properly is to service and repair the pump and that would normally include a new pump housing which is what wears.

I will do some more troubleshooting, sometimes the glow plug relay doesn't work when the engine is hot. Which is easy to check.

Will keep you updated.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Found a place in Spain that sell the advance plate for 20 euros (including shipping) which isn't to bad.

Unfortunately it doesn't turn out to be that clear cut. Driven the car for about 70 miles, parked up for two days and then the battery is flat. Radio, lights etc where all off.

No indication that the battery isn't charged while driving so even though it passed two seperate tests it looks like the battery is up for replacement.

Will order the battery sometime next week and hopefully that solves the problems.

 

[Fraccie]

Mate, as far as I can gather, the glow plugs have a silly set up about them.Turn the ignition on and let the glow plug light go out,wait for the airbag light to go out,then start her. That sure works on mine.

Also, blanking the EGR is the cheapest and best mod I have ever done to any vehicle. It starts and runs better,plus it is 50 mile a tank better on MPG. Plus there ain`t all that crap going through the engine.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Fraccie,

thats the way I start her every time but it doesn't seem to work anymore. In the morning when she is cold she starts every time but when she is warm the reluctance to start shows itself.

 

[Klunker]

Sorry for not getting back.

It's more of a quirk with mine.
Starts first kick from cold.

When warm say nipping in and out to a shop, it's sometimes lazy.
I usually just give the pedal a small pump and it starts. Never been stuck and never not fired second attempt.

I just though it was a quirk of these 2.8's

Fraccie,
How did you do the EGR valve? Was it on a 2.8 Patrol as well?

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Had a few weeks with no problems untill it started again.

Decided to change the battery as the old one was getting a bit old in the tooth. (battery passed all the health checks but run out of power quite quickly when the car wouldn't start)

Since changing the battery she starts within a blink of an eye. Driven 647 miles since the rebuild without any serious problems so will take the car to The Netherlands next week, fingers crossed. :thumbs

Thank you for all your suggestions!! :bow