Starter Motor types for 1998 Terrano II Tdi 2.7

[Goatmaster]

After removing the starter today and dismantling it appears that a field coil has most likely gone and as these are now either no longer stocked or prohibitively expensive a new started has been advised. Full autopsy is taking place tomorrow morning by a qualified auto electrician. Removed starter is a Bosch 9 000 331 203

So questions are, what makes are to be avoided and are the types with and without a nose cone interchangeable? eBay seller states that they are but I am looking for confirmation from those that know. I was thinking the non nose will be shorter and so easier to manoeuvre back in.

My Terrano II is a 1998 2.7 diesel Tdi

 

[solarman216]

Both types are completely interchangeable and yes the Hitachi without the nose is easier to get in, Rick

 

[Goatmaster]

Thanks Rick for clearing that up so quickly for me.
eBay trawl will now be more focused

 

[terranosaurusdoug]

Google "rotating electrics" mate, will bring up loads of company's that will have all the bits you need to refurb it yourself, I replaced a bearing in mine when it seized up, they are quite easy to work on bud, interesting too :thumb2

 

[solarman216]

Only problem with the field coils is the cross head screw that holds it in, many years ago I was involved with refurbishing just these sorts of motors and dynamo's, the machine that we had for unscrewing this bolt was massive, it was solid bench mounted with a great big foot pedal that you stood on to hold the driver bit into the screw, and to undo it was a London bus steering wheel, often the bit would break before the screw loosens, having said that it will probably fall out, but be warned, Rick

 

[Goatmaster]

Yes, that is the sort of level of brute force I was expecting. As for the field coils, the old boy I took it to for a proper test seemed pretty genuine and determined that I should not spend the £60 on a replacement set when, according to him a new Hitachi replacement starter would cost £130. I don't think that has this, seemingly cheap for a Hitachi, unit. It was more of a general price for a new one comment. From what he told me and from the piles of bits as evidence, he only rebuilds what is brought in. Seemingly from other starters and alternators that have been brought in!?

I will find out tomorrow what his final thoughts are but right now I'm homing in on a new eBay one with 2 years warrantee for £80

 

[solarman216]

Readily available as exchange for that sort of price, Rick

 

[Goatmaster]

Just spoken to the old boy who has inspected the thing and has now seemingly sourced required parts at a price he was happy with. Parts arriving any moment and expecting to be completed this afternoon. I am not 100% sure at the moment quite what was required but total charge will be £70.

Hopefully refit tomorrow morning so I can then start investigating the massive lack of power.

 

[Goatmaster]

So just picked it up. Final price £75 for cash. Field coils were OK. Damage was due to gear end bush having gone which had apparently also damaged the gears. Yes, parts I could have sourced and replaced myself but at least the thing is now refurbished, tested and has a 6 month warantee.

Now I just have to wait for the rain to stop...

 

[Banshee]

So just picked it up. Final price £75 for cash. Field coils were OK. Damage was due to gear end bush having gone which had apparently also damaged the gears. Yes, parts I could have sourced and replaced myself but at least the thing is now refurbished, tested and has a 6 month warantee.

Now I just have to wait for the rain to stop...

Get your storm coat on and the spanners out :splif

 

[Goatmaster]

Get your storm coat on and the spanners out :splif

So despite a rotten cold (at least I presume it is a cold ) that is what I have done. Starter back in and fired up first pull!! Then died.
OK no biggy as have replaced fuel filter, so air in the line.

Fired up, chugged a bit and died for about another four tries. Then really slow to turn over. Jumped from another car. Slow, then fast turn over but not attempting to fire. This fast turnover continued for multiple tries.

I presume that the lack of steady voltage was leading to the key failing to be read so no fuel thanks to the immobilizer. Hence the fast spin. Left the jump car running for 10 mins and tried again- back to slowish turnover but still not firing up.

Given up now and battery, which is a good newish one, on charge. Mini filter removal tomorrow and fingers crossed all will be well.

 

[Goatmaster]

Mini filter out fully charged battery in and attempted to start.
Four pulls on the battery and it is so slow it is bearly turning over.
Back on charge and charger reports nearly flat

Is there anything it could be other than a starter that has not been repaired properly?

 

[Fez_uk]

Is there anything it could be other than a starter that has not been repaired properly?

Sounds like the battery is ****ed, try a known working battery.

Check the main starter motor feed cables for damage, Mainly around the crimp connectors.

 

[Goatmaster]

Battery is a known good one.
All connections are good.

Tried another battery. Just the same.

So is it likely that the starter was not repaired properly or could the ignition unit cause such a massive drain so quickly, say if not enough power was getting to the starter control terminal? I think not. That amount of drain in my mind can only be from the armature touching the field coils. An issue that the starter was suffering from before it was supposedly fixed. Or am I wrong?

To summarize massive drain on battery after only 4 short attempts at starting is there anything other than knackered battery or shot starter that would cause this?

 

[Goatmaster]

Charged battery and this time it started after two attempts. Turned off then needed jump start to go again. So no real resolution thus far.

Took it for a short spin to refuel, leaving it running at the pump. Still very gutless despite fresh fuel filter and removing mini filter.
Bosch so is it a case of replacing the MAF next or crank position sensor?

I know I still haven't sorted the starting issue but want to make the most of the limited progress.

 

[terranosaurusdoug]

Charged battery and this time it started after two attempts. Turned off then needed jump start to go again. So no real resolution thus far.

Took it for a short spin to refuel, leaving it running at the pump. Still very gutless despite fresh fuel filter and removing mini filter.
Bosch so is it a case of replacing the MAF next or crank position sensor?

I know I still haven't sorted the starting issue but want to make the most of the limited progress.

Unplug may then drive, see if there is any difference

 

[solarman216]

Slow turn over on starter, high amps draw, gutless performance, poss = part seized engine, all I can come up with from description so far, Rick

 

[Goatmaster]

So yesterday unplugged MAF and had a drive about, slight decrease in what already is a massively underperformance not a lot of difference so MAF most likely shot. Car was starting on the button with no issues, although obviously warm engine.

Spent the morning looking into fault codes and testing instructions. Just tried to start it now and exactly as it was yesterday. Really struggling to turn engine over and no chance of it starting. Not even with two batteries in parallel. Waiting for jump start again and have battery back on charge.

Not convinced with the part seized engine theory as it will do 80 on motorway, it just takes half an hour to get to that speed, downhill with wind behind it. Seriously though there is no indication of any undue engine braking when the foot is off the gas so can't see that engine itself is the issue. More like two separate issues, no power due to what feels like lack of fuel delivery and this b***Dy starting problem.

 

[Goatmaster]

So drove the car and after a few revs battery is charging at 14.2b happily. Just to make sure it was OK I charged it on the car whilst I dug about to find the fault code interface. Jumper in and got the fault code 12 flashed back at me. Check MAF circuit. As expected as had disconnected it yesterday. No other fault codes despite not enough fuel being delivered to get the turbo to kick in��

So this probably took 45 mins at the very most. Went to start the car and battery has gone from full charge to can hardly turn the car over.

Tested for drain - positive connector to the engine bay to positive lug with 12v led cob bulb did not light. However connecting the lead to the inside electricals did. (It has somewhat come adrift so needs special attention to connect to the terminal). Proceeded to test by pulling out each fuse. Appears to be slight drain through interior lights but not significant. Bulb still lit when this fuse was removed but not as bright.
Under the bonnet the 75 amp fuse drivers side fuse box top right When leaning over wing also had a noticeable affect on brightness. Don't know what it does as description rubbed off lid.

When people say disconnect the alternator and leave overnight to check that the diodes have not gone, is it the plug on the back of the alternator or the positive connector that should be disconnected?

Beginning to very much regret buying this one at the moment I'm afraid ��

 

[solarman216]

Sounds like you battery is shot, from flat it should take 30mins to get to 14.2 if it takes a lot less time that indicates low capacity, Rick