Ignition

[clivvy]

hi guys,

recently I have had this odd problem with my ignition. I putmy key in, wait for the plug light to go out and turn to start the car, but all I get is "click". Anyone know what this is? It does start maybe after a couple of tries. Info to note-its not an original key, its a programmed one. The starter motor and battery are new. It doesnt happen all the time, and only very recently has got "worse" as in has happened in the morning/afternoon, random.

any ideas for things to check?

 

[harlowmaverick]

i had this problem with mine after having a starter motor fitted.
check and make sure that the leads on the starter motor are tight and done up.
if this doesnt resolve the issue then you may have a solenoid problem

 

[clivvy]

ok, will get under it when i can and have a look. as for the solenoid problem, can you expand on that? sorry, i am no mechanic, but i am learning...!

 

[Terranosaurus]

As well as checking the battery and starter terminals for tightness check for cracks, they are known for cracking which can cause a problem like tis.

Could also be an ignition barrel problem too - depends what sort of click it is small (relay) or a larger louder click from a the solenoid.

The solenoid is the second smaller cylinder that is part of the starter. If you've had a new starter then the solenoid will have been replaced, of course this doesn't preclude the solenoid being the problem

 

[clivvy]

As well as checking the battery and starter terminals for tightness check for cracks, they are known for cracking which can cause a problem like tis.

Could also be an ignition barrel problem too - depends what sort of click it is small (relay) or a larger louder click from a the solenoid.

The solenoid is the second smaller cylinder that is part of the starter. If you've had a new starter then the solenoid will have been replaced, of course this doesn't preclude the solenoid being the problem

its certainly a small click....what could that be, a relay? if so, where is it so I can check? thanks for help so far guys!!

 

[Darwin]

I can 99% tell you what the problem is

I had that exact prob 2 weeks ago

basically the cable betwwen the +ve batt terminal and starter had been fatigued and not allowing current through.

recoverry man said he had done 20-30 terranos / mavs with the exact same problem.

 

[zippy656]

i needed a new battery terminal a few weeks ago too.

got one from nissan but here is cheaper i think

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/home/homepage.phphttp://www.nissan4x4ownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5224

 

[clivvy]

I can 99% tell you what the problem is

I had that exact prob 2 weeks ago

basically the cable betwwen the +ve batt terminal and starter had been fatigued and not allowing current through.

recoverry man said he had done 20-30 terranos / mavs with the exact same problem.

so, are you saying its the positive battery cable, or the cable that goes from the positive to the starter motor? If so, I am really unsure whihc cabel I need to buy. I checked Zippys website, but couldnt see what the correct cable is. in saying that, I havent had chance to check mine, but I reckon you are onto something. Any clues as to what to look out for on the cable? Did your recovery man fix it?

 

[lacroupade]

so, are you saying its the positive battery cable, or the cable that goes from the positive to the starter motor? If so, I am really unsure whihc cabel I need to buy. I checked Zippys website, but couldnt see what the correct cable is. in saying that, I havent had chance to check mine, but I reckon you are onto something. Any clues as to what to look out for on the cable? Did your recovery man fix it?

Clivvy, if its the battery terminal, and on older trucks its a weak weedy piece of metal that often breaks inside its plastic cover, you just go to your motor factors (or Halfrauds) and get a good old-fashioned chunky terminal clamp, whip the old weedy one off and wire the cable up to the new one. Job done.

If its the ignition switch burnt out (the other common cause), you should find that if you turn the key VERY SLOWLY once the glowplug light goes out, it should start...if that happens, you need to replace the electrics at the back of the switch....pretty easy to do, but don't ask me as it was a long time ago!!!:thumbs

 

[clivvy]

Clivvy, if its the battery terminal, and on older trucks its a weak weedy piece of metal that often breaks inside its plastic cover, you just go to your motor factors (or Halfrauds) and get a good old-fashioned chunky terminal clamp, whip the old weedy one off and wire the cable up to the new one. Job done.

If its the ignition switch burnt out (the other common cause), you should find that if you turn the key VERY SLOWLY once the glowplug light goes out, it should start...if that happens, you need to replace the electrics at the back of the switch....pretty easy to do, but don't ask me as it was a long time ago!!!:thumbs

gotcha, i will give that a bash tomorrow once checked, thanks for all the clues guys, very much appreciated. i will report back with my findings!

 

[jims-terrano]

The thick red positive battery cable goes to the starter, as people have said the cable brakes at the terminal. If you replace this terminal make sure the hole where the wire goes is big enough too.
When my switch went it would sometimes start up and run lumpy and then die, then the starter wouldn't turn untill I turned the key several times. The switch fastens to the bottom of the ignition lock assembly with a single cross head screw, slightly awkward to get the screw that's all.

Jim T

 

[clivvy]

ok, i am going to have a proper look, but its doing it more now, and I am very worried because I have a load of stuff to shift and a caravan to pick up Sunday, I need it reliable. I rang my mech, he says start motor. The starter motor is new (ish) the chap I bought the car off had fitted it. I checked the big red battery cable, and that all seems intact. I can see the wire threads, and they look ok, but then I am not sure how well they are suposed to look. I am about to get a torch and have a look at the starter side, but has anyone got any other clues they can offer? I really need the car sorted for Sunday!!

brb with more info

 

[lacroupade]

ok, i am going to have a proper look, but its doing it more now, and I am very worried because I have a load of stuff to shift and a caravan to pick up Sunday, I need it reliable. I rang my mech, he says start motor. The starter motor is new (ish) the chap I bought the car off had fitted it. I checked the big red battery cable, and that all seems intact. I can see the wire threads, and they look ok, but then I am not sure how well they are suposed to look. I am about to get a torch and have a look at the starter side, but has anyone got any other clues they can offer? I really need the car sorted for Sunday!!

brb with more info

whats the story with the ignition switch, does waiting for the glowplug light to go out and then turning key very slowly make any difference?

Be surprised if its the starter itself if its relatively new.....I don't believe its a bit that goes wrong that often - gets swapped for other symptoms fairly often but doesn't often fix them!

More likely to be bad connection somewhere, earth strap, battery leads etc...or possibly a dodgy connection to the starter if it has been recently replaced?

 

[clivvy]

well, I just had a good look. The starter does indeed look new, and the terminal at that end also looks new, with a new screw holding it on. I didnt disconnect the negative battery, so didnt touch it (i am not sure if this is safe to do) but it LOOKS snug, I can see a slight gap, but I cant tell if thats because of the washer or not.

Turning the key very slowly is uncertain. when I was having a look, i had it turning over everytime I turned the key. left it 5 mins, tried again, nothing, just click.

After turning the engine off, i can hear the start motor recoiling itself as you would expect, and it sounds healthy. All the wires SEEM ok, the earth form the positive to the head seems fine also. I have sprayed soem of the electrics with trusty duck oil, but doubtful that will make a difference, but with it raining now, at least the eelctrics are protected while the bonnet is up. I get the distinct impression its not the ignition barrel, because on the turn everything funcitons normally, apart from start and it IS the starter motor clicking, I am certain of that now (wel, 99%!!)

the glow plug lights go out pretty quick, after a few seconds (quick compared to my old Fourtrak) and turning the key slowly only seems to work randomly, as in i get the same fast or slow.

I am stumped.

 

[lacroupade]

well, I just had a good look. The starter does indeed look new, and the terminal at that end also looks new, with a new screw holding it on. I didnt disconnect the negative battery, so didnt touch it (i am not sure if this is safe to do) but it LOOKS snug, I can see a slight gap, but I cant tell if thats because of the washer or not.

Turning the key very slowly is uncertain. when I was having a look, i had it turning over everytime I turned the key. left it 5 mins, tried again, nothing, just click.

After turning the engine off, i can hear the start motor recoiling itself as you would expect, and it sounds healthy. All the wires SEEM ok, the earth form the positive to the head seems fine also. I have sprayed soem of the electrics with trusty duck oil, but doubtful that will make a difference, but with it raining now, at least the eelctrics are protected while the bonnet is up. I get the distinct impression its not the ignition barrel, because on the turn everything funcitons normally, apart from start and it IS the starter motor clicking, I am certain of that now (wel, 99%!!)

the glow plug lights go out pretty quick, after a few seconds (quick compared to my old Fourtrak) and turning the key slowly only seems to work randomly, as in i get the same fast or slow.

I am stumped.

well remember the starter motor will only click for two reasons; either its jammed or its not getting enough current for some reason.

Its def worth checking your earth lead on the battery as well, and also the point where its connected to the bodywork.....that can look OK but be rusted/corroded out of sight.....so worth taking it off, sanding a bit, and reconnecting......its a pain but at least it eliminates the obvious things.

If you're worried about touching the starter motor connections just take the battery off for now (easier to get at the earth strap as well).... definitely worth checking them just in case.....its more likely to be connectivity than anything else I reckon.....especially because of its intermittent nature....

I'm assuming your battery is healthy by the way? Have you got another vehicle/battery you can jump-start it with to see if that makes any difference? I know you said its new, but is it def fully charged??? Although again, given its an intermittent problem, I guess we can rule that one out.

Don't rule the ignition switch thing out either yet....next time you get a click, try the turn-it-nice-and-slow routine and see if that starts it.

Good luck, I know what a pain this is!

 

[clivvy]

thanks, i am wet through now, so I am going down to the tip to dump this crap out of the boot. And assuming I get back home, I will disconnect the negative, then the positive and check the connections, I will then check the earth under the battery or wherever it is!! wish me luck!

 

[clivvy]

okies. so I have just got back from a few more trips out. I tried the "very very slowly" suggestion, and this seemed to work everytime. I did still get the non start click, but like i say, very very slow seemed to be fine everytime! So, with that in mind, are we talking ignition barrel here? I went to Halfrauds to buy a rubber malet, Comma Fuel treatment and a towbar socket holder, all was well.

 

[lacroupade]

okies. so I have just got back from a few more trips out. I tried the "very very slowly" suggestion, and this seemed to work everytime. I did still get the non start click, but like i say, very very slow seemed to be fine everytime! So, with that in mind, are we talking ignition barrel here? I went to Halfrauds to buy a rubber malet, Comma Fuel treatment and a towbar socket holder, all was well.

Does sound like replacing the switch at the rear of the ignition is the way to go first Clivvy. I suspect you'll need to get the bit from a Nissan dealer but from memory its not that expensive....just make sure you only buy the switch bit not the whole barrel/lock thingy. As someone has said, the only challenge is getting the old one off by removing the screw at the back, can be painful to get at - again I can't remember what you need to do but at the very least, you'll need to take the steering column shrouding off.

That will then fix one of the main potential culprits....as I've said before, what happens is the part of the switch which makes the live connection to the starter solenoid (relay) burns out over time, and the carbon makes it hard for the circuit to complete.....the click is because when you turn the key the contacts pass momentarily over a clean bit of connector before hitting the burnt-out section, which allows a very brief flow of current which is enough to hit the starter solenoid but not enough to activate it, hence the "not enough current" clicking.

 

[clivvy]

ok, thats what I will try first, but can anyone tell me what the partis called, or where i can find th ename>? I do have the workshop manual come to think of it, is it in there?

sorry for sounding like a novice, but i am. I am very keen to try and fix things myself. i hav emanaged in my time to do some good work fixing my other cars, and this sounds like something i can do, so i very much appreciate all your help and advice! i have done all the basics in teh past such as servcing. I have also done starter motor on renault 5, engine mount re drill on a v6 mazda, heater panel fix and diagnose etc etc, so i am learning!

 

[lacroupade]

ok, thats what I will try first, but can anyone tell me what the partis called, or where i can find th ename>? I do have the workshop manual come to think of it, is it in there?

sorry for sounding like a novice, but i am. I am very keen to try and fix things myself. i hav emanaged in my time to do some good work fixing my other cars, and this sounds like something i can do, so i very much appreciate all your help and advice! i have done all the basics in teh past such as servcing. I have also done starter motor on renault 5, engine mount re drill on a v6 mazda, heater panel fix and diagnose etc etc, so i am learning!

Trust me, if I can do it you can! :thumbs

no idea what its called unless someone else has bought one recently, but why not phone a Nissan dealer and ask - just say you've got starting problems, possibly diagnosed to the ignition switch, so you just need the electrical part of that item that screws on the back, not the lock barrel etc..
I'll check the manual now but don't recall seeing it covered in that detail....