Hydrogen generator anyone?

[(RIP) PLANK]

Lots of talk going on about these and lots of them available on ebay, how do you fit one and does anyone have one or recommend one?

 

[makeitfit]

A friend of mine has one on his landie BUT doesn't seem to be producing what he expected
I don't know it's make or anything, but I'll ask him for you :thumbs

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

cheers have a read of this, he refers to the Nissan 2.7 engine in a black cab! sounds promising:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Run-your-...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5896905565

Out of interest I took a couple of under the bonnet shots of the 2.7 in a taxi a couple of weeks ago I must remember to put them on here :thumb2

 

[makeitfit]

It's the same engine without the turbo I thought

 

[manora]

Snake oil
If it was that easy everyone would be doing it. A bit of research on the internet will reveal all.

http://green.autoblog.com/2008/08/04/why-on-board-hydrogen-generators-wont-boost-your-mileage/

Save your money.
Hope I haven't burst any bubbles.
Peter

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

yes just a very basic 2.7 i will post a pic when i can work out how to get it from my phone to the laptop.

Manora - interesting reading, the obvious possibility from that equation is however that while potentially using more fuel, the hydrogen generator could boost performance. Something the writer of the article misses! so if the same engine is producing more BHP this in itself could be enough of a benefit for some users :nenau Another possibility they miss out is, ironically, something they do allude to 'stored extra fuel' what if this cam in the shape of stored extra electricity? for example a second high capacity batter charged externally by say a rood mounted solar panel and plugging the car in like you do with one of those Kenlow hot start systems?

So, the writer assumes the use of a hydrogen generator and no other additions, plus he assumes the aim of the user is greater fuel efficiency!

Third assumption, that the maths actually follows through to real life particularly when one has failed to take into account the possibility of extra engine output power and the effect that would have on economy.

an interesting article all the same :thumb2

 

[solarman216]

Snake oil
If it was that easy everyone would be doing it. A bit of research on the internet will reveal all.

http://green.autoblog.com/2008/08/04/why-on-board-hydrogen-generators-wont-boost-your-mileage/

Save your money.
Hope I haven't burst any bubbles.
Peter

Well done Manora, I was looking for a reasonable explanation to post but could not find one, but knew the system was crap but could not explain it, again very well done, Rick

 

[kitchenman]

Those of you as long in the tooth as me will remember the vans during WW2 with huge tanks on their roofs, I think they were like small barrage balloons. They were running on town gas I think.

Ah those were the days

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

Well done Manora, I was looking for a reasonable explanation to post but could not find one, but knew the system was crap but could not explain it, again very well done, Rick

But, like i said, if you read the answer with a critical eye it is quite dismissive and based on several (potentially flawed) assumptions. Maybe another one he misses is that there are (again potentially other - low wattage - ways to produce hydrogen. I once saw one that relied on frequency of electricity rather than a high current but i can't find anything online at the moment. It was a project by a PH student and the resulting 'cell' was about the size of a Pringles can, but could run a small - perhaps very small - car.

try these ideas as food for thought:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090406102555.htm

http://www.kodasplace.com/more/wate... this device also assumes that possibility.)"

 

[manora]

Splitting water to get hydrogen and oxygen is easy enough, however you do it, the trouble is that you don't get something for nothing. Even at 100% efficiency energy in = energy out which this system certainly isn't.
If you want hydrogen or oxygen then OK but the losses involved in splitting water with electricity make it a nonsense as a power source or power booster for automotive use. Even commercial systems rely on green electricity sources to make then viable as a hydrocarbon substitute and then there is no great power advantage.
In addition the actual volume of hydrogen produced by a cell that size is tiny compared to the volume of air sucked into the engine.
The vibration method is one I've not come across before but the same rules apply on energy, you can't get something for nothing. Although you may get the water to split you end up with a mixture of gasses in a ratio of H2O which is water and I would suspect that it would recombine readily. Better perhaps to save the energy and just inject water straight into the air intake.
Aah, now there's a thought, water injection, I wonder if that's been tried before:naughty:naughty
As I said before if it was that easy............
Peter

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

Splitting water to get hydrogen and oxygen is easy enough, however you do it, the trouble is that you don't get something for nothing. Even at 100% efficiency energy in = energy out which this system certainly isn't.
If you want hydrogen or oxygen then OK but the losses involved in splitting water with electricity make it a nonsense as a power source or power booster for automotive use. Even commercial systems rely on green electricity sources to make then viable as a hydrocarbon substitute and then there is no great power advantage.
In addition the actual volume of hydrogen produced by a cell that size is tiny compared to the volume of air sucked into the engine.
The vibration method is one I've not come across before but the same rules apply on energy, you can't get something for nothing. Although you may get the water to split you end up with a mixture of gasses in a ratio of H2O which is water and I would suspect that it would recombine readily. Better perhaps to save the energy and just inject water straight into the air intake.
Aah, now there's a thought, water injection, I wonder if that's been tried before:naughty:naughty
As I said before if it was that easy............
Peter

With respect, you aren't letting this debate progress but getting hung up on one, flawed web article, that were it an academic paper on the subject would struggle to get a 'C'! The idea of using resonant frequency to separate hydrogen does seem much more promising than the old high amp groove the debate seems to have got stuck in :thumb2

 

[supergnome]

Bull shite, next we'll be turning lead into gold in catalytic converters as we drive. Wishfull thinking of us all. David.

 

[manora]

Try a Google for "hydrogen generator for cars scam"
You pays your money you make your choice.:doh
Last word from me on the subject.:clap
Peter

 

[solarman216]

in simple terms, for every 1.2 grams of water you can produce 1 litre of hydrogen, so for this device to "only use a very small amount of water for a week or so" is patently nonsense, unless you are feeding the engine with such small amounts as to make no difference, but the overriding factor is that you use as much energy producing the hydrogen as you could possibly gain in extra performance, and for the sort of gain required on a road going vehicle, well I cannot be bothered to do the calculation but for a gallon of water you could produce around 4700 litres of hydrogen, I do not think that will go very far feeding as say a 5% percentage of air, I guess the litres of air per mile to be a lot higher, 100,000 litres of air will be needed per gallon of water, so can someone tell me how many miles your average 2.7 T2 will do on 100,000 litres of air?? Rick

 

[briggie]

plank mate , you have far too much time on your hands :augie:lol:lol