Cylinder head 2.7TDi

[Lazy-Ferret]

Just got back from a 3 week break in Wales, but towing the caravan, and driving up and down those hills has taken it's toll on the poor T2...

As anyone who has read my old posts will know, my Terrano drinks engine oil... She has only done 98K miles. A few days before we left to go on holiday, for the first time since I have had it, when I started it from cold, she ran like a dog, chugging away, and belched out blue/white(ish) smoke for 20 to 30 seconds. Since then, she has proceeded to do this every time she was started, even when warm...

I had noticed she was smelling of burnt oil when I started her for a few weeks before, but never saw the smoke.

On the drive to Wales with the van on the back, 350 odd miles, she drank 4 litres of engine oil.. Ouch.

The thing is, once started, and the initial chugging has stopped, about 30 seconds max, she runs a dream, and apart from stinking of burnt oil, pulls and runs fine. Coming back home today, fully loaded, roof box, and van on the back, she sat at 55 to 70 most of the way, and and still managed 30 plus miles to to the gallon of diesel, and 4 litres of engine oil.

Since funds are tight, based on the symptoms, Smoke when starting, and when engine braking, I have decided to go for a replacement cylinder head, hoping that the problem is worn valve guides, but while the top is off, it will also give me a chance to see how bad the upper engine is, and decide if I need to start thinking about buying a donor vehicle to replace the whole lump.

So my questions...
What is the cylinder head like to change on the T2?
Do I need any special tools?
What pitfalls should I look out for?
Do I need to replace any other parts while doing it?

Also, do I need to know anything when ordering the head, as I have seen some mention different size injectors. I don't think mine as EGR either, so do I need to look for anything there.

Speaking of injectors, is it worth changing them at the same time, or do I just put the old ones back in.

I also find out that another rattle, that I thought was the side step, was in fact the whole back section of the exhaust has broken away, so looks like I will be needing a new exhaust as well... Never just rains...

 

[spiderpig37]

Think rick aka solerman is the man to answer this
Me personaly would go for engine change
Good look

 

[R1cho]

it could be the bit we replace with an oil catch tank, it throws oil out like its in divorce court when is blocked, its known by a number of names on here its the blow by valve, also known as oil mist catcher, do a search its there and can make ya think ya engiine is drinkin oil when infact its this one little valve that likes to clog up

 

[R1cho]

 

[96terrano]

it could be the bit we replace with an oil catch tank, it throws oil out like its in divorce court when is blocked, its known by a number of names on here its the blow by valve, also known as oil mist catcher, do a search its there and can make ya think ya engiine is drinkin oil when infact its this one little valve that likes to clog up

Where is this valve thingymabob?

 

[R1cho]

side of the rocker

 

[geoffdown]

Just got back from a 3 week break in Wales, but towing the caravan, and driving up and down those hills has taken it's toll on the poor T2...

As anyone who has read my old posts will know, my Terrano drinks engine oil... She has only done 98K miles. A few days before we left to go on holiday, for the first time since I have had it, when I started it from cold, she ran like a dog, chugging away, and belched out blue/white(ish) smoke for 20 to 30 seconds. Since then, she has proceeded to do this every time she was started, even when warm...

I had noticed she was smelling of burnt oil when I started her for a few weeks before, but never saw the smoke.

On the drive to Wales with the van on the back, 350 odd miles, she drank 4 litres of engine oil.. Ouch.

The thing is, once started, and the initial chugging has stopped, about 30 seconds max, she runs a dream, and apart from stinking of burnt oil, pulls and runs fine. Coming back home today, fully loaded, roof box, and van on the back, she sat at 55 to 70 most of the way, and and still managed 30 plus miles to to the gallon of diesel, and 4 litres of engine oil.

Since funds are tight, based on the symptoms, Smoke when starting, and when engine braking, I have decided to go for a replacement cylinder head, hoping that the problem is worn valve guides, but while the top is off, it will also give me a chance to see how bad the upper engine is, and decide if I need to start thinking about buying a donor vehicle to replace the whole lump.

So my questions...
What is the cylinder head like to change on the T2?
Do I need any special tools?
What pitfalls should I look out for?
Do I need to replace any other parts while doing it?

Also, do I need to know anything when ordering the head, as I have seen some mention different size injectors. I don't think mine as EGR either, so do I need to look for anything there.

Speaking of injectors, is it worth changing them at the same time, or do I just put the old ones back in.

I also find out that another rattle, that I thought was the side step, was in fact the whole back section of the exhaust has broken away, so looks like I will be needing a new exhaust as well... Never just rains...

if u think it could be valve stem guides warn leading to all this oil burning have u thought about replacing just the valve stem seals bout £200 to £300 cheaper than changing the head and you really think ur getting 30 mpg towing a van dont think so:augie

 

[cncfabs]

if u think it could be valve stem guides warn leading to all this oil burning have u thought about replacing just the valve stem seals bout £200 to £300 cheaper than changing the head and you really think ur getting 30 mpg towing a van dont think so:augie

Agreed no point changing head just to get new valve guides.But i wouldnt do anything untill you have diagnosed the fault properly no point guessing which part is at fault.I would be checking first the intercooler , oil breathers and the oil catch thing and also that you are using the correct oil.Ive never been a fan of pulling engines to bits can be costly easier to get good second hand one that you can try before buying and just bolt it in:thumbs

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

it could be the bit we replace with an oil catch tank, it throws oil out like its in divorce court when is blocked, its known by a number of names on here its the blow by valve, also known as oil mist catcher, do a search its there and can make ya think ya engiine is drinkin oil when infact its this one little valve that likes to clog up

Thanks Richo, I did hope it was that, and fitted an oil catch tank which drains back into the sump, but it has made no difference, and ironically there is very little oil in the catch tank or the clear drain pipe either, so don't think it is that now. I did do that in the last few weeks, and fitted into the pipe before the Blow By control valve, so effectively giving me 2 oil catch systems..

if u think it could be valve stem guides warn leading to all this oil burning have u thought about replacing just the valve stem seals bout £200 to £300 cheaper than changing the head and you really think ur getting 30 mpg towing a van dont think so:augie

I am just taking a guess, as burning oil on start up and engine breaking is classic valve stem wear sign.

We filled the car up before leaving, and then 1 mile from home, where it took 61.34 litres. The journey between fill ups was 362 miles, so my my reckoning that is 13.5 gallons, which is 26.8 miles to the gallon. So my late night estimation was just a bit off, but not that far out.

Agreed no point changing head just to get new valve guides.But i wouldnt do anything untill you have diagnosed the fault properly no point guessing which part is at fault.I would be checking first the intercooler , oil breathers and the oil catch thing and also that you are using the correct oil.Ive never been a fan of pulling engines to bits can be costly easier to get good second hand one that you can try before buying and just bolt it in:thumbs

The thing is, if I got a replacement head, I could do the job in a day, I have no idea who around this area would replace valve guides plus once the engine is in bits, I have no way of running around to take thing to and from an engineering company.

I am pretty sure it is not the crank case breather system, and as far as I can tell, it is not the turbo. I took the intercooler off, and checked it out, it is clean, and I filled it with water, and left it for a couple of hours, but could not see any leaks. (I must admit, I also can't see how a leaking intercooler can make it use engine oil though).

I do not have the gear, to test compression, and by the time I have purchased it, I am part way to a new head anyway, so am running out of ideas now.

Finding a new lump would be good, but again, that is not only full of potential problems, should I get a second bad one, but I would have to hire in bits to enable me to lift out the old, and replace the new unit, or chuck it at a garage, but then, the cost would be prohibitive, and I might as well look for another cheap car.

I was thinking that "relativity" speaking, changing the head was the cheapest, easiest, and hopefully most logical way to go, but it would appear you guys do not thinks so, so might have to go back to the drawing board.:doh

 

[solarman216]

if it is the valve stem seals theses can be done in situe, no need to remove the head, but think I would suspect the turbo first, Rick

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

if it is the valve stem seals theses can be done in situe, no need to remove the head, but think I would suspect the turbo first, Rick

How, I am not sure how you hold the valve in place to release the collets. Also would the valve seals make that much difference, surely it would be wear in the guides, rather than just the seals.

I am just going round in circles, I guess I am going to need to find a Diesel specialist down this way who can look over the engine and try to diagnose the issue, at least then I will know if it is worth the expense.

I keep coming back to the turbo, but as far as I can tell, it is not the problem.

In the past, I took the link tube from the Crank case breather valve off, blocked the feed into the air filter/turbo, and put a filter on the CCBV. Ended up with oil all over the engine bay, so the oil is definitely coming out the top of the engine. After doing this, the inside of the turbo was clean, so again, pretty sure the turbo is ok.

Today, I took the pipes off, and had a bit of a play around. Despite now having 2 oil catchers, oil is still blowing out the CCBV, and as I moped up all the oil laying down in the turbo feed before starting it, I got no smoke when I started the car. I ran it for a few mins, then put my hand over the turbo and stalled the engine... (Bad idea by the way, that thing sucks) I then let it stand to see if any oil ran out of the turbo, but it was all clean.

So as far as I can see, the oil is mainly due to too much crank case pressure, pushing it out the top and then getting drawn through the turbo. The question is, why is it pushing so much out the top.

I have this horrible feeling that I may have to start looking for another car, as this one is going to be expensive to fix, as it is looking more and more like larger deeper engine problems. The other thing is, since it is using so much oil, it keeps running low, which in its own right is doing more damage.

 

[geoffdown]

How, I am not sure how you hold the valve in place to release the collets. Also would the valve seals make that much difference, surely it would be wear in the guides, rather than just the seals.

I am just going round in circles, I guess I am going to need to find a Diesel specialist down this way who can look over the engine and try to diagnose the issue, at least then I will know if it is worth the expense.

I keep coming back to the turbo, but as far as I can tell, it is not the problem.

In the past, I took the link tube from the Crank case breather valve off, blocked the feed into the air filter/turbo, and put a filter on the CCBV. Ended up with oil all over the engine bay, so the oil is definitely coming out the top of the engine. After doing this, the inside of the turbo was clean, so again, pretty sure the turbo is ok.

Today, I took the pipes off, and had a bit of a play around. Despite now having 2 oil catchers, oil is still blowing out the CCBV, and as I moped up all the oil laying down in the turbo feed before starting it, I got no smoke when I started the car. I ran it for a few mins, then put my hand over the turbo and stalled the engine... (Bad idea by the way, that thing sucks) I then let it stand to see if any oil ran out of the turbo, but it was all clean.

So as far as I can see, the oil is mainly due to too much crank case pressure, pushing it out the top and then getting drawn through the turbo. The question is, why is it pushing so much out the top.

I have this horrible feeling that I may have to start looking for another car, as this one is going to be expensive to fix, as it is looking more and more like larger deeper engine problems. The other thing is, since it is using so much oil, it keeps running low, which in its own right is doing more damage.

where is the vac pump for the brake servo on urs some r on back of alternator some r under ip and gear driven off the ip

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

where is the vac pump for the brake servo on urs some r on back of alternator some r under ip and gear driven off the ip

IP? not sure what that is

It's definitely not on the back of the alternator, but I have not found where it is... following the pipe, it looks like it goes somewhere down behind the Air con compressor, but not sure exactly where too.

 

[geoffdown]

IP? not sure what that is

It's definitely not on the back of the alternator, but I have not found where it is... following the pipe, it looks like it goes somewhere down behind the Air con compressor, but not sure exactly where too.

ip injection pump have a look from under truck with bash plate off under the ip the metal pipe does run under engine towards the aircon pump if this vac pump is allowed to keep pumping ie vac pipe has hole or u leave it off to test engine:augie it pushes load of air in to sump and top end i thought after replacing the ip on my truck took for spin oil was going everywhere pushing out of the dip stick and breathing heavy out of the ccvb thought shit engine gone put pipe back on and all was well :augie you never no might be ur problem might not

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

ip injection pump have a look from under truck with bash plate off under the ip the metal pipe does run under engine towards the aircon pump if this vac pump is allowed to keep pumping ie vac pipe has hole or u leave it off to test engine:augie it pushes load of air in to sump and top end i thought after replacing the ip on my truck took for spin oil was going everywhere pushing out of the dip stick and breathing heavy out of the ccvb thought shit engine gone put pipe back on and all was well :augie you never no might be ur problem might not

Now that sounds like a great plan... will have a proper look in the morning.. Thanks... now keeping fingers crossed it is as simple as that.

 

[solarman216]

valve seals dead easy to do, could do the lot in less than an hour also have a compression tester just need to remove the glow plugs to test, and can check the glow plugs at the same time, but to be honest your fuel consumption seems very good so if it was blow by on the pistons, performance would be down and so would MPG your valves will not be worn at that mileage the seals on the other hand could have hardened, and as I say easy to change, but untill I see the engine hard to tell, I am only in Bexhill if you want to pop over, if work is an issue how about one evening, Rick

 

[stinka]

Bexhill on the south coast ? Bet its lovely there by the sea, lucky devil !

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

valve seals dead easy to do, could do the lot in less than an hour also have a compression tester just need to remove the glow plugs to test, and can check the glow plugs at the same time, but to be honest your fuel consumption seems very good so if it was blow by on the pistons, performance would be down and so would MPG your valves will not be worn at that mileage the seals on the other hand could have hardened, and as I say easy to change, but untill I see the engine hard to tell, I am only in Bexhill if you want to pop over, if work is an issue how about one evening, Rick

Thank you, that is a very kind offer... As you say, overall the car is running well, it pulls a dream, and is very economical, well compared to the Volvo 240 we ran before this, which was only doing about 12 to 20MPG, and worse with the caravan on the back.

Unfortunately, one of the glow plugs (Cylinder no 3) was sheered off before I got the car, so not sure about the compression test, although I would love to take you up on the offer of help with replacing the seals. I can do day times, so that would be no problem. Where would be the best place to get the bits, and what would I need to get, e.g, seals, and cover gasket, anything else?

 

[solarman216]

just the seals and prob main stealers that is all, Rick

 

[firebobby]

Rick, I must say, your a top guy:thumb2:thumb2