Camber question

[Draconis]

Hi Guys hoping you can help here, I recently jacked up my torsion bars and got the tracking done after a couple of years of chewing front tyres but only on the inside wall which meant that my front tyres were / ---- \ that sort of angle (obviously not that bad) since jacking up the torsion bars and testing the camber they are better but the drivers side on brand new tyres is starting to show wear AGAIN !!!

the hub centre to top of wheel arch trim is 18.5" on both sides

thing is the car has NEVER been in any kind of bump to throw the camber out as much as it "seems" to be

on the camber meter I'm showing 0.5" positive on one, and slightly negative on the other one, and the camber didn't change that much prior to having the torsion bars tightened up....

Am I looking in the wrong place here..... I know it is camber causing the tyre wear but could it be a ball joint gone ? would a ball joint cause this kind of problem ? or has something else gone on it ?

it drives brilliantly in a straight line and brakes in a straight line.... always has and nothing clunking or crunching which would point to a ball joint on it's way out..... but I have this nagging doubt that shimming it up would cure it but not get to the bottom of it, if you know what I mean

 

[dinky]

Try a different garage,sons fiesta done at kwik fit would,nt drive in straight line on factory settings,went to local garage and he set it up with someone sat in car now perfect.

 

[Draconis]

its not tracking that is spot on... it drives in a perfectly straight line I'm talking about the angle of the wheel/tyre to the road surface hence :-

/-----\ <--- front view

I've had it tracked up numerous times it still chews tyres, nothing at all to do with toe-in / toe-out or alignment purely camber, and it has done this on various tyre sizes and widths from standard to the ones I have fitted now

it consistently takes out a 2" band of tread on the inside rim of the tyre on the drivers side and about a 1" band of tread on the inside of the passenger side

 

[rustic]

I assume tyre pressures are ok..
All the excess play in the ball joints, poly bushes, wheel bearings and extra width of tyres will all add to the camber.
The track rod ends could also have play in them.
Any of these will cause the tyres to wear on the inside edge.
What surprises me is if the camber and the tracking are ok statically then things must change when moving. It could be the poly bushes, it depends on what part of the vehicle you are jacking up to check the play. The action of jacking it up will affect the side force on the bushes and ball joints, thus making it difficult to check by hand.

I jacked my Mav up prior to the MOT to check any play and it seemed ok and passed the MOT next day.

I would think you can find which part has the most play, by elimination.
1 Wheel bearings easy to check, shouldn't be any play.
2 Track rod ends and steering links
3 drop links on front roll bar
4 Shock absorbers
5 Ball joints, you will probably need a bar and a mate to check these.
6 Poly bushes again you will probably need a bar and a mate to check these.
Can't think of anything else?

What are you using to determine what the camber should be, the chart in the service manual looks quite complicated to give an exact angle?
Hope this helps
best regards,
Rustic

 

[Draconis]

I went out and bought a Sealey (sp) camber angle tool, basically a fancy spirit level you attach to the hub via it's big magnet on the base.... easy to setup you just have to make sure the car is on level ground via a standard spirit level on all 4 wheels then you calibrate the camber meter via the standard spirit level or a known 90 degree wall ....then stick it on the hub and it gives you degrees positive or negative

thanks I'll give all those things a check this weekend.... it's really doing my nut in (and my wallet on tyres) this camber business.... thought I had it sussed with the torsion bars being jacked up :roll:

 

[Terranosaurus]

These trucks are notoriously bad to track up due the rubbish design of the drag link, check that for play, my money would be on tracking especially as its still wearing the inside despite one of the wheels now being in positive camber.

Yu say it didn't change that much prior to the bars being wound up, I assume you ean the difference side to side. Thing is theres nothing to say it had sagged evenly before.

As mentioned before are you getting it tracked with someone in the drivers seat - thats what Nissan specify,. Likewise the camber, are you checking that with someone in the drivers seat?

How did you judge the correct amount to wind the bars up? Using what the manual gives or based on a ride height/gap to arch type technique.

 

[iandouglas]

hi Draconis.
have a look at the short struts that have a rubber donut at one end that passes through a bracket welded to the chassis and bolted to wish bone at other end .where the donut is placed there is a metal sleave under the donut these wear through and let the wish bone move back .also check the saucer type fitting that holds the donuts in place .
i had to replace the saucers and sleaves on mine ,which was causing a brake pulling problem due to excessive movement .
hope it helps.
rgds.iandouglas

 

[Draconis]

How did you judge the correct amount to wind the bars up? Using what the manual gives or based on a ride height/gap to arch type technique.

I used both methods, I checked the gap on the lower arm pivot to the stop which was around 1.26" and then I checked the hub centre to top of wheel arch which was 18.5" on both sides .....lucky I guess :lol:

I've let my mate borrow my camber meter this weekend, to camber up his Cosworth so I won't be doing any camber adjustments this weekend, but hopefully next weekend I can get under it in the pit and check all the suggestions :lol: and if I don't find anything obvious I'll just shim it up to what it should be and see if that cures it

 

[Draconis]

I assume tyre pressures are ok..
1 Wheel bearings easy to check, shouldn't be any play.
2 Track rod ends and steering links
3 drop links on front roll bar
4 Shock absorbers
5 Ball joints, you will probably need a bar and a mate to check these.
6 Poly bushes again you will probably need a bar and a mate to check these.
Can't think of anything else?

What are you using to determine what the camber should be, the chart in the service manual looks quite complicated to give an exact angle?
Hope this helps
best regards,
Rustic

1 Wheel bearings easy to check, shouldn't be any play. (had them tightened up recently....no play)
2 Track rod ends and steering links (need to check those)
3 drop links on front roll bar (replaced two months ago sound as a pound)
4 Shock absorbers (replaced two months ago)
5 Ball joints (will look at next weekend)
6 Poly bushes (seemed ok but will check again)
Can't think of anything else? (neither can I !!!! if I had any hair left I'd pull it out......again !!!)

 

[Toolbox]

Its worth finding a garage locally that has a descent suspension geometry checking tool. There is one near to me that gives a computer read out of the Camber Caster and Tracking of all four wheels and its amazing how accurate they are.

It may be down to your caster angle being out.