Alternative Fuels Hydrogen.

[ocelot]

Afternoon all,

I've installed the cells into my T2, cabled it all apart from the control gear and final pipe into the air inlet.

How do I get photo's up on here???????????

 

[lacroupade]

Afternoon all,

I've installed the cells into my T2, cabled it all apart from the control gear and final pipe into the air inlet.

How do I get photo's up on here???????????

Get a photobucket account and paste a link to it, or use the paperclip icon in the "reply" page to post pics one post at a time...

 

[ocelot]

Cheers for that, I'll sort that out later on today.........

 

[Terranoman]

Is it one you brought or made yourself?

Will be interesting to see how you get on.

 

[ocelot]

It's one which a friend and myself have been working on for about two years, now I have a diesel, I thought this would be the ideal opportunity to get some accurate data. We've tried them in other peoples vehicles (disco's and taxi's) but they don't keep tight enough records. Being a saddo engineer type, and used to documenting everything.........................

As you can see from the photo it uses 5 cells and a sealed mainifold system, has a pump to cycle the electrolyte and is monitored by two small pc's/plc's using a display and alarm system to show any faults/disconnects. It's nearly fitted in the car, as min'es in nice condition, I'm not that willing to screw things to the dash so the pc's will fit in the small cubby below the air controls.

For some reason, it doesn't like multipoint petrol engines, increases power output but little increase in fuel economy. I think it's to do with the ECU/air volume rather than the burn capability.
Diesels are a different matter, cleaner and more complete burn, fewer emissions and more power..... however, I'll prove it one way or the other this week. If it significantly increases the efficiency and fuel economy of the vehicle then we'll test for emissions, and hope to offer the units as commercial aftermarket units. But no running before we can walk.............

 

[ocelot]

Another photo,
You can see the control relays at the left hand side.
Monitoring covers the cells and engine as well as a safety cut out switch which in the event of an accident, turns the unit off.
The display which is inside the vehicle, shows what the unit is doing.
The installation into the T2 was simple enough, two mounting holes for the relays were required and nothing more. Cable ingress not far from the aircon pipes. The cells are mounted on close cell foam treated with fire retardant spray, al the cables are low smoke and fume, cable ties are the same. The control cable is CAT5 E double screened cable.

 

[ocelot]

ok, forgot to upload the photo, dumbass...................

 

[Terranoman]

If you need an independent test motor :thumbs:thumbs

 

[ocelot]

thanks.....................

I'm going to fit a system to my boat over the next few weeks, got an old 2.5BMC diesel in that, running on salt, diesel bug and nasty red....... if it works with that..........

I'm off to the outer hebrides tomorrow, nice long run so should see some results. My T2 does 31.2 mpg on long runs, 23.84 mpg around town/local running, short journeys, stop start traffic etc. So there's a baseline. I'll publish the data on here when I return.

 

[ocelot]

It's all fitted and working, car seems to be quicker, marginally. Hydrogen is bubbling away, current draw is around 12 to 16 amps at 12vdc. Two pc's controlling the system, seems ok............

If it does turn out that the system saves on fuel, I suspect that I'll make them commercially as an aftermarket fit.
Bit of a pain to fit tho........

 

[Adz]

:clap

:thumbs

:bow

Bloody Hell
Nice 1 ​

 

[zippy656]

how much of a pain to fit?

why 2 pc's?

how much??

 

[ocelot]

its only a pain to fit as I'm working out the best way to install the thing, what's required in terms of cable, fixings, pipe connectors etc. Plus, I don't want to drill holes in the car, the two micro's/display are sitting in the cubby hole at the moment.

The base design is complete, the system is working, draws too much current at the moment, but if I doubled the voltage 24vdc, I could get the current down to around 8A, or used more cells.......... changed the thickness of the plates....... the list goes on and on.

It needs 2 micro's to control and monitor the system, the cells, electrolyte level, gas output, voltage/current input and alternator output are all monitored, if I put steel braided pipes in, I could also monitor them for a pipe break. At the moment if the pressure drops, any cell fails, electrolyte drops or engine switches off, the system automatically turns itself off and gives a system message of the fault on the display. There's also a device built into the first micro which if you have an accident, turns the system off as well as various failsafes.........
The relays are also monitored for correct operation, I've used a windscreen wash pump to top the cells/cycle the electrolyte automatically when the system turns on.

There are a few systems on the market, but none with the level of control that's been used on this kit..........

In terms of cost, if the system is as efficient as it has been in other vehicles (verbatim only) and gives a reduction in use of diesel and increase in MPG, then we'll go to market..........

The cost is likely to be around £250 to £300 per unit.

if that gives you an additional 100 miles on a 400 mile tank, I'd say that's around £16.00 of benefit on mixed urban/motorway use per tankful. I'm seeing around 7.6 miles to the litre without the cells, multiply that by 4.2 and you get around 30mpg if it costs £52.00 to fill the tank....
If we use the figure of 500 miles to a tank, again costing £52.00 but with the addition of the HHO system, you see a figure of 9.6 miles to the litre, which takes you up to just under 40mpg.
if the unit cost is £300, it would take around 30 refills to pay for itself.......
I'll give some more data at the end of the week.............

Kind of makes sense I think...........

 

[ocelot]

Update................
the system works, BUT, there's always a but!

MPG slightly better, tested over 535 miles to the isle of Benbecula in the hebrides, I got around 34/35 from initial figures but that's not enough to make a difference really.
When the system was designed, the vacuum created by a 200Tdi was used in the modeling process, turns out the vacuum of the 2.7 is I reckon, nearly 50% greater so as the system isn't pressurised apart from what pressure the gas creation generates, not enough of the gas was able to get to where it counts. The air passing the gas inlet was just too vast So it's back to the drawing board. Also the MAF does not like the gas/air mix, temperature/air-gas mix changes cause it to send the ECU into limp home mode, it worked all the way there, motorway, A roads etc, but when the revs drop below 2k, I suspect that the moisture content is too great for the MAF to contend with. The MAF kept dropping into limp mode, unless there's another sensor I don't know about??

I think what's needed are bigger cells, bigger pipes and the repositioning of the gas inlet and the all important creation of pressure in the system. I'll use a brushless motor for that, don't want any nasty explosions. I'll also put a moisture trap in via a gauze filter, see if that helps.
The existing system will assist the BMC in the boat no problem as that's a naturally aspirated motor and weak by comparison.
The concept works though........ which is heartening.
Now I need to make some bigger cells....

 

[Toolbox]

What are you using as electrolyte?

 

[ocelot]

its a mixture of caustic soda and some ionisation chemicals with an anti oxident to keep the plates clean. All the others have been tried and tested for yield, this one seems to give the most gas.............. although there are some that have not been tested yet I imagine.

 

[Terranoman]

How r u getting on with this?