strike

[exosteve]

Any firemen on here?
I just think it should be against the law.
If I was a fireman and there was a fire.I would have to help. I could not stand and watch or at least know people are dying.
I know its shit working longer,less pension.
but its still a good career and it has a pension.
I don't know what im going do when im older. use the kids inheritance?

[R1cho]

Originally Posted by exosteve

Any firemen on here?
I just think it should be against the law.
If I was a fireman and there was a fire.I would have to help. I could not stand and watch or at least know people are dying.
I know its shit working longer,less pension.
but its still a good career and it has a pension.
I don't know what im going do when im older. use the kids inheritance?

sorry have to disagree, a fireman should not have to be carrying people down a ladder at the age of 65 they signed a contract that said 55 is the age they retire and so that contract should be honoured, would you trust a 65 year old man/woman carrying you out of a burning building?

[solarman216]

can of worms here I think, I see your point Steve, but if you deny a guy his right to protest his work conditions/pay/pension rights, then you have a slave, so there has to be in place some kind of negotiation right for these guys and as far as I can see what they had in the past has been removed, Rick

[rustic]

There are certain professions that would never go on strike.

Not for the moral reasons, but if they did, then they may not be missed.

Imagine if Tax inspectors went on strike..
Or traffic wardens...

Postal workers always choose Christmas time

Re the firemen, they have been on strike before, but in those days, the Army had fleets of green goddesses, but no longer the case.

[solarman216]

Lets see solicitors or bankers go on strike? no need they have us by the short curly's all the time, Rick

[makeitfit]

One of my best mates is a fireman and he said if his bleeper goes off he'll be there, but emergency only. Not pulling cows out of slurry pits.
I'm self employed and get what I earn spent before my wallet gets a sniff of it , let alone a pension.
However this country has got scared of it's own bloody shadow.
So I say strike mate and I support the fire chaps.

[exosteve]

im like you pete.
everything I earn is gone before its in. no pension.work my tits off and nowt fall back on.
never mind working till 65 ill be working till im dead I will still be climbing ladders at 70 at this rate.

yes I agree people have the right to fight for there rights.
but what will a strike atchieve? nowt.
it will just make people aware they are pissed off.
I don't agree in it they should be sacked.
plenty of people looking for work.

and at this time of year

[macabethiel]

Originally Posted by exosteve

Any firemen on here?
I just think it should be against the law.
If I was a fireman and there was a fire.I would have to help. I could not stand and watch or at least know people are dying.
I know its shit working longer,less pension.
but its still a good career and it has a pension.
I don't know what im going do when im older. use the kids inheritance?

I do not want to hijack this post but this is my story of life in the Public Sector

I was in the Police Service initially from 1971 to 1973 my annual salary was £1075 and that included 2 paid rest days a month that it was compulsory to work for 1.5 T overtime. My monthly take home pay after tax and pension contributions was £68 per month but there was a Police Authority house rent / council free of charge if you were married .
To put that into perspective the Miners were on strike at that time for £100 a week basic wage.
I loved the job with all my heart but when my first wife fell pregnant with our daughter in 1973 it more than halved our income.
She was a typist at Stavely Chemicals earning more than me!
After 6 months we started to accumulate debt it does not sound much today but each month our overdraft grew by about £5.00.

The Wilson Government gave us a pay rise of around 1.5% and so our Chief took away our paid rest days and I was worse off after the pay rise. Staff turnover was quite high around the 10-15 % mark in our Division.
I left to become a car salesman with a basic wage of £2500 a month with a Company Car free of tax with free fuel !

When I reached the age of 30 I realised that there were hardly any car salesmen over the age of 60 and it was a young mans game.

By 1979 I had re-married and re-joined the Police Service as pay and conditions had improved hugely as a result of the Edmund-Davis report that identified the problems of retaining staff and we had no right to strike.
I took a loss of income and lost the Company car but was doing a job I loved again and there was a good pension scheme ahead of me.
My pension contributions rose with each pay rise and the proportion from my pay rose to 11.25% I think it was.
I was lucky to retire on a 26 year pension in 2003 at the age of 55 but still need to work to pay for the extras in life that I have become used to - holidays, motoring,meals out and hobbies.
If my retirement age had been extended whilst I was still serving I would have been very angry indeed.
In the Police Service over the years we lost a lot of perks such as the 'Free Housing' that was replaced with 'Rent Allowance' etc but these changes were red circled when introduced so only new applicants lost the allowances and existing recipients had the allowance frozen with no cost of living index or increases. Now there is no Housing Allowance.
My wife who is 59 has seen her OAP age rise from 60 to 64.75 now to 66 years so she really needs to keep on working and if I retired fully I would be sat at home on my own!

What does my head in is the Government seems out to cut all public sector pay and pensions with the mantra that we can not afford to do this but I do not see the Government cutting the MP's massive pension perks or allowances fiddles. I think Russell Brand was right in the Paxman interview when he stated that it makes little difference to the average working man who is in power Labour, Conservative Liberal etc certainly in my experience it has made no long term difference.

I voted all my life until the last 2 elections when it dawned on me that it makes no difference who you vote for they all have vested interests and look after themselves be it the Tories and the Landed Gentry or Labour and the cronies they support behind your back.
Pretty much everyone fiddled expenses as exposed by our free press that they are now out to punish with new legislation.

Even the Trade Unions seem to be more interested in Political Point Scoring than in its Membership. I was always wary of Police Federation Politics.
I wonder where the real FBU interests lie is it really going to make any difference in the end?
If terms and conditions do change for the worse there are enough people out of work or in dead end jobs to fill any vacancies that arise.
The problem is then in the future when the average age of firemen increases and sick rates rise!
I support the Firemen in the cause but I think the battle is lost before its even started some beancounters in the Civil Service will do the Governments Bidding and you will be left with the short change.

[Terranoman]

I am a Firefighter!

I am a FBU Rep! Infact Brigade Chair

I am not an armchair winger. I along with my colleagues will not lay down and take part in the race to the bottom without a fight.

Do you think we are that bad we will sit on our picket lines and let people die?

Infact I took a phone call last night from our fire officer to break picket and go and save someones life! I then needed to ask a striking work force to return.

Wake up and see what is going on.

The UK is giving millions of pounds away every year to developing counties while we ALL struggle in this country. Old people rotting in care homes, children suffering in the hands of abusers due to cuts in social services, people suffering because of lack suitably qualified nurses while doctors and surgeons practice full time in private hospitals earning massive amounts of money and fill in here and there in NHS hospitals. Mps getting 11% pay rise. Bankers and their bonuses.

Is the country really in a mess?

If we can afford billions on a train track were not in that much of a mess.

[macabethiel]

Originally Posted by Terranoman

I am a Firefighter!

I am a FBU Rep! Infact Brigade Chair

I am not an armchair winger. I along with my colleagues will not lay down and take part in the race to the bottom without a fight.

Do you think we are that bad we will sit on our picket lines and let people die?

Infact I took a phone call last night from our fire officer to break picket and go and save someones life! I then needed to ask a striking work force to return.

Wake up and see what is going on.

The UK is giving millions of pounds away every year to developing counties while we ALL struggle in this country. Old people rotting in care homes, children suffering in the hands of abusers due to cuts in social services, people suffering because of lack suitably qualified nurses while doctors and surgeons practice full time in private hospitals earning massive amounts of money and fill in here and there in NHS hospitals. Mps getting 11% pay rise. Bankers and their bonuses.

Is the country really in a mess?

If we can afford billions on a train track were not in that much of a mess.

To be honest the last Firefighters Strike cost a lot of jobs to get the agreement back then and that was a labour government in power that shafted you.

I believe the strike will gain you nothing in the long run as if you keep the pension as it is it will be at the expense of full time membership numbers when local authorities say they do not have the money to maintain the status quo.

You make a good point about NHS consultants but the reason they can work in the NHS and moonlight in the Private Sector goes back to when the NHS was founded.
To keep the Doctors on board they were forced to accept the moonlighting or the NHS would have failed at the first hurdle. Its time the government made Doctors choose one employee that would soon sink the Private Health Service if they had to pay Doctors what they earn in the NHS & Private Sector combined. Okay it did not work with the Dentists but thats another story.

I think the race to the bottom is coming its just a matter of when and how far down. If a Firefighter signed on to work until he is 55 years of age then it is a breach of the original contract to now move the goal posts for existing members to 60 or 65 but no doubt in the small print they can.

[clivvy]

I disagree with the OPs comments. Firefighters are being robbed right now, and they have the RIGHT to strike and should do so. I haven't read a single story yet of firefighters not doing their job when they are needed, and that's because our firemen are still caring human beings and quite frankly we the public who rely on them should BACK THEM UP. Same with the police, nurses and so on. I am sick to death of this countries people bitching about firefighters, police, trains, buses you name it and nobody seems to want to actually DO something about it. At the very least the people should be behind the firefighters in this situation. That way, their voice is bigger. I don't want to hear this "striking will achieve nowt" nonsense, that only happens because those who are striking are never supported and people never bother to find out what they are striking for. I for one am behind the firefighters and I hope they get good results.

Standing up for yourself should NEVER be against the law, that's just utter bollocks frankly. Something has to be done, so if people are worried about not having a fireman around to save them, then get out there and support them and help them and stop bitching because it isn't their fault, its this damned government and no matter how much people moan about not being able to make a difference then bollocks to that, use your power as a voter, use your power as a tax payer and do what you can to help change this country for the better.

time for tea.

[exosteve]

I think I will go quiet on this subject.
but I will say yes I agree firefighters are getting a bum deal.so are the police,council workers,bin men,hospital staff the list goes on
All I am saying is it should be illeagle for any emergency service to strike
will shut up now

[macabethiel]

Heaven forbid that it should happen but if during the dispute a young life is lost for whatever reason the press headlines will inevitably blame the Strikers and public support will soon ebb away.

The truth may be very different as it often is but how will the FBU fight the press?

Negotiation is the only way forward, holding a gun in the form of a strike is a fools paradise.

Look at what happened to our Coal & Steel industry history tells its own story.

In my current job I have had 3 pay rises in 9 years and 2 of them are as a result of the minimum wage increase.I am lucky as its supplementing my pension but what I earn is not a living wage for a young family man so I am not blocking a job for todays youngsters.

I am not cynical just a realist as a result of life experience I reckon the gap between the rich and the rest of us is getting wider. We will end up like America where the richest 300 people have more wealth than the 20 odd million of the poorest unless there is change.

We had Landowners and Serfs in the past things are going backwards what we need is a real revolution in the way wealth is distributed and tax applied. Until then we are all going to suffer.

[clivvy]

yeah I can totally see your points, but I think id like to see more common public support, at the moment there just doesn't seem to be any.

I think the amount of money this country gives away in aid needs to be addressed. For example, we give millions to India...India? Its a very rich country, but with its own issues that's for sure, it certainly doesn't need our money. SO, that's a start, bring that money back and apply it directly to the current firefighters situation. OK im certainly no economist, in fact I am crap with numbers but SURELY spending money on foreign aid where it is not needed will make a huge difference here where it is?

I know that's not QUITE the topic here, but I think the point is it all comes down to money, unfortunately.

[macabethiel]

I agree we need to cut back on lot of foreign aid but part of the problem is we still behave as if we had an empire.
India has its own space programme and we are giving it aid?

Do we really need our own nuclear submarines should we have such an expensive Army, Navy and air force ?

Is anyone ever likely to invade us in reality?

Why doesn't the Government start by Privatising the Royal Family sell shares to the Royalists, float Regina PLC like we are flogging the Post Office. Yes we keep the Royal Family but it pays for itself. Flog some knighthoods on the open market instead of by the back door etc.

How much do we spend on maintaining the forces in the Falklands we could save millions if we sorted that out?

Then there is the House of Lords that seems to have been half heartedly modernised but still its not a proper elected chamber just a load of cronies claiming expenses paid for by the taxpayer.