Democracy in action

Liam · 03-09-2009, 16:50

Our Prime Minister on radio yesterday to discuss forthcoming Lisbon Treaty Referendum (part 2) says we are having this referendum because we live in a Democracy and the Government go by the wishes of the people. Apparently the Government have got the clarification from the EU that the people wanted and we now get to vote again. He seems to think we voted No because we wanted reassurance regarding a few items, not because we wanted to vote No because we don't want the Lisbon Treaty. Democracy,Dictatorship ,what's the difference? I hope to God this Treaty is voted against again, maybe then the penny will drop.

zippy · 03-09-2009, 22:52

Hi Liam

I must admit if we in the North were allowed a referendum (at least you get one in the South) I would probably vote yes with a few caveats. The writing is on the wall - the world is changing at a great pace and I dont think it is wise to go it alone for much longer. If Europe became a federalist state then we individuals in member countries would be protected much better.

However my problem is the lack of democracy of the EU. If they sort that out then i would def say yes.

Each to their own here and I can understand the rationale for many in the south who voted no last time round but I can remember visiting relatives in the south as a child before it was a member state and the standard of living was much poorer than the north. Now the south has higher standards of living than the north.

Two things probably benefitted the south most to become the 'celtic tiger' we hear about, firstly the decision to become members of the EU and secondly the government policy of adopting a distinctly american capitalist economy. Both policy decisions were very prudent - the South has really shone in the last few years.

Regards
Lee

Liam · 04-09-2009, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippy

Hi Liam

I must admit if we in the North were allowed a referendum (at least you get one in the South) I would probably vote yes with a few caveats. The writing is on the wall - the world is changing at a great pace and I dont think it is wise to go it alone for much longer. If Europe became a federalist state then we individuals in member countries would be protected much better.

However my problem is the lack of democracy of the EU. If they sort that out then i would def say yes.

Each to their own here and I can understand the rationale for many in the south who voted no last time round but I can remember visiting relatives in the south as a child before it was a member state and the standard of living was much poorer than the north. Now the south has higher standards of living than the north.

Two things probably benefitted the south most to become the 'celtic tiger' we hear about, firstly the decision to become members of the EU and secondly the government policy of adopting a distinctly american capitalist economy. Both policy decisions were very prudent - the South has really shone in the last few years.

Regards
Lee

My worry is that we are inevitably heading for a one world Government, might take a few years but that seems to be the long term plan. The Celtic Tiger unfortunately missed an awful lot of people down here. Sure,developers got rich but the man in the street got royally screwed. We supplied concrete to a large apartment development in Portlaoise and the apartments were all sold off the plans in a couple of hours. Apartments are finished but the buyers can't get the mortgages and the builder is gone belly up. Empty apartments and worth a lot less than they were originally sold for. Most people who bought houses during the boom are now sitting on a property worth a lot less than they bought it for a couple of years ago,coupled with 440,000 unemployed and rising, it will be a very long time before we start coming out of recession. I'm one of the lucky ones,still working,albeit on about half what I earned last year, small mortgage and grown children who are both working, as is my wife. I don't know what the future holds but expect a really harsh budget in November.

lacroupade · 04-09-2009, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam

My worry is that we are inevitably heading for a one world Government, might take a few years but that seems to be the long term plan. The Celtic Tiger unfortunately missed an awful lot of people down here. Sure,developers got rich but the man in the street got royally screwed. We supplied concrete to a large apartment development in Portlaoise and the apartments were all sold off the plans in a couple of hours. Apartments are finished but the buyers can't get the mortgages and the builder is gone belly up. Empty apartments and worth a lot less than they were originally sold for. Most people who bought houses during the boom are now sitting on a property worth a lot less than they bought it for a couple of years ago,coupled with 440,000 unemployed and rising, it will be a very long time before we start coming out of recession. I'm one of the lucky ones,still working,albeit on about half what I earned last year, small mortgage and grown children who are both working, as is my wife. I don't know what the future holds but expect a really harsh budget in November.

My brother is over here for a visit and telling me how he managed to afford his extension in Portlaoise , with stuff like the blockies going from 2 euros a block to less than 50 cents....and skilled guys working for 70-80 euros a day.... bad times eh.

Liam · 04-09-2009, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacroupade

My brother is over here for a visit and telling me how he managed to afford his extension in Portlaoise , with stuff like the blockies going from 2 euros a block to less than 50 cents....and skilled guys working for 70-80 euros a day.... bad times eh.

Wish I was skilled,

an increase in salary would be great. Just thinking,who did he get his concrete from? I don't remember going to him with concrete

lacroupade · 04-09-2009, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam

Wish I was skilled,

an increase in salary would be great. Just thinking,who did he get his concrete from? I don't remember going to him with concrete

good point! tight arse probably mixed it himself....he has a mate called Eddie who does a bit of everything, especially driveways....probably got some cheap shite off him!

baskie · 05-09-2009, 13:22

The Southern economy is fecked. Just how it stood up for so long is amazing. I got out businesswise nearly ten years ago thinking it was about to go tits up. Too early clearly!

IMO the problem has been greed. From everyone. People demanded higher wages or they left and went into another job. So in the end employers paid it (I was an employer and had to just pay up). So cost of goods went up. So cost of living went up. So people demanded higher wages. A vicious circle.

It was always going to end up fecked.

What really annoys me is the fact that prices continued to go up, even when the pound plummeted against the Euro. The costs of imports went down but the prices went up. Again, greed, this time from the importers and retailers.

I listen to RTE1 radio most days (can just about get it in Belfast) and the news is never good, cut backs here, cut back there. Soon no one will be able to afford to live there anymore.

Liam · 07-09-2009, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by baskie

The Southern economy is fecked. Just how it stood up for so long is amazing. I got out businesswise nearly ten years ago thinking it was about to go tits up. Too early clearly!

IMO the problem has been greed. From everyone. People demanded higher wages or they left and went into another job. So in the end employers paid it (I was an employer and had to just pay up). So cost of goods went up. So cost of living went up. So people demanded higher wages. A vicious circle.

It was always going to end up fecked.

What really annoys me is the fact that prices continued to go up, even when the pound plummeted against the Euro. The costs of imports went down but the prices went up. Again, greed, this time from the importers and retailers.

I listen to RTE1 radio most days (can just about get it in Belfast) and the news is never good, cut backs here, cut back there. Soon no one will be able to afford to live there anymore.

Dead right,Baskie, exactly how it is and how it was. We are notoriously short sighted down here, nobody in any position of authority seems to have the ability or the will to plan for the next 20 or 30 years, if they can plan for 6 months ahead they think they are doing a great job. Unfortunately we are caught in the grip of dynastic politics, there are probably less than a hundred families who have been running this country since 1922 and it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon,unfortunately.Nepotism runs politics here and always has done since 1922, we probably need something like the Russian revolution here to get rid of those in power and start fresh. I am pretty certain that almost ALL our current politicians are sons,daughters,brother,cousins,grand children or nephews/nieces of previous politicians.

lacroupade · 07-09-2009, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam

Dead right,Baskie, exactly how it is and how it was. We are notoriously short sighted down here, nobody in any position of authority seems to have the ability or the will to plan for the next 20 or 30 years, if they can plan for 6 months ahead they think they are doing a great job. Unfortunately we are caught in the grip of dynastic politics, there are probably less than a hundred families who have been running this country since 1922 and it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon,unfortunately.Nepotism runs politics here and always has done since 1922, we probably need something like the Russian revolution here to get rid of those in power and start fresh. I am pretty certain that almost ALL our current politicians are sons,daughters,brother,cousins,grand children or nephews/nieces of previous politicians.

And The Playboy will have plenty of them!

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.c...dline=s1i39993

baskie · 07-09-2009, 17:28

Corruption is the norm is Irish politics.

I'm mid 40's now so grew up in England in the Thatcherite years. When I moved to Dublin I couldn't believe how bad it was. Bertie was just in and he made Thatchers lot seem like angels. On my way to work every day I used to see a dustmans truck, written on the back was "When I was young I wanted to be a politician or dustman. I wanted to keep my hands clean so I became a dustman". Always made me laugh.

03-09-2009, 16:50	#1
Liam Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Laois,Ireland Posts: 923	Democracy in action Our Prime Minister on radio yesterday to discuss forthcoming Lisbon Treaty Referendum (part 2) says we are having this referendum because we live in a Democracy and the Government go by the wishes of the people. Apparently the Government have got the clarification from the EU that the people wanted and we now get to vote again. He seems to think we voted No because we wanted reassurance regarding a few items, not because we wanted to vote No because we don't want the Lisbon Treaty. Democracy,Dictatorship ,what's the difference? I hope to God this Treaty is voted against again, maybe then the penny will drop.

03-09-2009, 22:52	#2
zippy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NI Vehicle: 01 terrano 2.7 lwb Posts: 210	Hi Liam I must admit if we in the North were allowed a referendum (at least you get one in the South) I would probably vote yes with a few caveats. The writing is on the wall - the world is changing at a great pace and I dont think it is wise to go it alone for much longer. If Europe became a federalist state then we individuals in member countries would be protected much better. However my problem is the lack of democracy of the EU. If they sort that out then i would def say yes. Each to their own here and I can understand the rationale for many in the south who voted no last time round but I can remember visiting relatives in the south as a child before it was a member state and the standard of living was much poorer than the north. Now the south has higher standards of living than the north. Two things probably benefitted the south most to become the 'celtic tiger' we hear about, firstly the decision to become members of the EU and secondly the government policy of adopting a distinctly american capitalist economy. Both policy decisions were very prudent - the South has really shone in the last few years. Regards Lee

05-09-2009, 13:22	#7
baskie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: ni Posts: 250	The Southern economy is fecked. Just how it stood up for so long is amazing. I got out businesswise nearly ten years ago thinking it was about to go tits up. Too early clearly! IMO the problem has been greed. From everyone. People demanded higher wages or they left and went into another job. So in the end employers paid it (I was an employer and had to just pay up). So cost of goods went up. So cost of living went up. So people demanded higher wages. A vicious circle. It was always going to end up fecked. What really annoys me is the fact that prices continued to go up, even when the pound plummeted against the Euro. The costs of imports went down but the prices went up. Again, greed, this time from the importers and retailers. I listen to RTE1 radio most days (can just about get it in Belfast) and the news is never good, cut backs here, cut back there. Soon no one will be able to afford to live there anymore.

07-09-2009, 17:28	#10
baskie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: ni Posts: 250	Corruption is the norm is Irish politics. I'm mid 40's now so grew up in England in the Thatcherite years. When I moved to Dublin I couldn't believe how bad it was. Bertie was just in and he made Thatchers lot seem like angels. On my way to work every day I used to see a dustmans truck, written on the back was "When I was young I wanted to be a politician or dustman. I wanted to keep my hands clean so I became a dustman". Always made me laugh.