Time to say goodbye? - Page 6

Flying Torquewrench · 22-08-2024, 13:23

Finally finished disassembling the gearbox and I am pretty sure that I have found the problem. On the synchroniser ring there are 3 spring inserts. One of mine has been dislodged as can be seen in the photo.

First a photo if one in its correct position.

Flying Torquewrench · 22-08-2024, 13:25

Now a photo of the one that is dislodged and therefore jamming the gear lever.

During on of my searches last week I came across a video describing this exact problem.

Flying Torquewrench · 22-08-2024, 13:54

I pushed the insert back into place and the gearbox shift as before. There is a bit of damage to the insert where the shifter hits it all the time.

New ones can be ordered from Amayama for about £1.76 each but they have a 3 week delivery time. I haven’t spoken to the Nissan dealer yet as they seem to be able to supply them within a week but it comes at a cost. Hopefully I can replace them without disassembling the whole gearbox first.

Flying Torquewrench · 22-08-2024, 13:56

For anybody interested, this is the inside of a Patrol gearbox.

solarman216 · 22-08-2024, 18:54

You are going to need to pull the layshaft first after that it will only be the selector fork holding it on, be careful the needle rollers 1st motion to main shaft may not be captive, I would be replacing that synchro ring as well, it looks quite worn and it is likely to be worn where it contacts the insert, if you look at your pic of the dislodged insert the ring has no clearance between it and the first motion shaft, this should not be at all, it might be that this is a fault on your style of box if you found a vid on it, worth checking with Nissan if there is an upgrade, Rick

Flying Torquewrench · 22-08-2024, 21:39

Rick, if I understand you correctly then the reason there is no clearance between the ring and 1st motion shaft is because the insert has jammed the ring all the way over. With the insert in its usual position there is normal clearance.

At the moment I am not sure what to do. Either I need to rebuild most of the gearbox or reseat the insert and leave it be. There are two inserts available for this gearbox, depending on the time it was built. One insert is still available but the other one is no longer available according to the dealer. However, I can not find out if they are interchangeable. I am hoping that the dealer can provide this information.

Via Amayama I can get both inserts, the synchro rings and springs for about £100 delivered.

The synchro rings are actually not in too bad a shape. I will try to get a better photo tomorrow.

solarman216 · 22-08-2024, 23:44

If you have the info on the box it will tell you how to check the wear tolerance etc, but clearly there is something going on there that is not correct, I have never seen those slippers jump out even on worn rings, perhaps the discontinued ones are the bad ones and the new ones modified to sort the problem? Rick

Flying Torquewrench · 23-08-2024, 11:13

Normally the various websites that I check tell you if there is an upgraded/replacement part. For these inserts it only has time periods so it really depends on when the gearbox was made.

The Nissan dealer can only supply 1 set of inserts and according to them the other part number is not available anymore. However, Amayama can supply both inserts for £1.57 each (need 3 of each). I have ordered bearings, inserts (both p/n’s), springs and synchro rings. It should be delivered by 6th September.

I have taken some photos this morning of the synchro rings. Whilst they show some wear, they aren’t in too bad a shape. As everything needs to be taken apart anyway, they will be changed.

Flying Torquewrench · 23-08-2024, 11:14

More

Flying Torquewrench · 23-08-2024, 11:14

And a close up.

solarman216 · 23-08-2024, 15:17

Once you have it apart, you need to check the distance between synchro and gear to check if within tolerance, this is where they wear, Rick

Flying Torquewrench · 23-08-2024, 21:04

These are the measurements to check.

Flying Torquewrench · 23-08-2024, 21:08

Typical, yesterday the Nissan dealer told me that only one set of insert was available. So today I ordered from Amayama with a delivery date of 6th September. Only to get an email from the dealer a few hours later to let me know that both inserts are available.

With the dealer they have a lead time of 4/5 days.

The cost of 6 inserts is £55 whilst at Amayama they cost me £100 but this includes shipping, a bearing, 2 synchro rings and new synchro rings springs. All in all, not too bad a prt from the long lead time.

This is the second page of measurements.

solarman216 · 24-08-2024, 11:54

So overall not too bad, be interesting to see the difference between the old and new parts, shame I cannot read the two pages, just too blurred, Rick

Flying Torquewrench · 24-08-2024, 12:10

Sorry Rick, they are clear on my ipad but not when posted on the forum.

https://www.nicoclub.com/service-man...er/2004/mt.pdf

That is the link to the manual for my gearbox. Pages 81 & 82 have the measurements.

P.s. what did you used to do as a job before retirement? If I may ask? I know you mentioned it before but I can’t remember.

22-08-2024, 18:54	#80
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,428	You are going to need to pull the layshaft first after that it will only be the selector fork holding it on, be careful the needle rollers 1st motion to main shaft may not be captive, I would be replacing that synchro ring as well, it looks quite worn and it is likely to be worn where it contacts the insert, if you look at your pic of the dislodged insert the ring has no clearance between it and the first motion shaft, this should not be at all, it might be that this is a fault on your style of box if you found a vid on it, worth checking with Nissan if there is an upgrade, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare. Last edited by solarman216; 22-08-2024 at 18:59. Reason: added a bit

22-08-2024, 23:44	#82
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,428	If you have the info on the box it will tell you how to check the wear tolerance etc, but clearly there is something going on there that is not correct, I have never seen those slippers jump out even on worn rings, perhaps the discontinued ones are the bad ones and the new ones modified to sort the problem? Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

23-08-2024, 15:17	#86
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,428	Once you have it apart, you need to check the distance between synchro and gear to check if within tolerance, this is where they wear, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

24-08-2024, 11:54	#89
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,428	So overall not too bad, be interesting to see the difference between the old and new parts, shame I cannot read the two pages, just too blurred, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

22-08-2024, 21:39	#81
Flying Torquewrench Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Worcestershire Vehicle: Nissan Patrol Y61 2.8TD Posts: 1,152	Rick, if I understand you correctly then the reason there is no clearance between the ring and 1st motion shaft is because the insert has jammed the ring all the way over. With the insert in its usual position there is normal clearance. At the moment I am not sure what to do. Either I need to rebuild most of the gearbox or reseat the insert and leave it be. There are two inserts available for this gearbox, depending on the time it was built. One insert is still available but the other one is no longer available according to the dealer. However, I can not find out if they are interchangeable. I am hoping that the dealer can provide this information. Via Amayama I can get both inserts, the synchro rings and springs for about £100 delivered. The synchro rings are actually not in too bad a shape. I will try to get a better photo tomorrow.

24-08-2024, 12:10	#90
Flying Torquewrench Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Worcestershire Vehicle: Nissan Patrol Y61 2.8TD Posts: 1,152	Sorry Rick, they are clear on my ipad but not when posted on the forum. https://www.nicoclub.com/service-man...er/2004/mt.pdf That is the link to the manual for my gearbox. Pages 81 & 82 have the measurements. P.s. what did you used to do as a job before retirement? If I may ask? I know you mentioned it before but I can’t remember.