One of the bosses - Page 2

09-03-2011, 19:36

are police not alowed to strike/have union? work to rule being our only weapon? bet most overtime came from prisoners in police cells when prisons full.
i dont think less oficers will mean more crime,people arent suddenly going to go on rampage because theres x amount less coppers in there area and apart from motorists most crime is detected by someone telling the police whos commited it,not police actualy catching them in act!

macabethiel · 09-03-2011, 19:50

It got a lot of bad press but I thought 90% of the Sheehey Report was spot on.

I think the timing was an issue as a lot of criticism was made of poorly performing officers many of whom were the backbone of the force when pay was bad in earlier years.

I thought The Police Federation went a bit OTT at the time. If we had negociated instead of spitting our dummy out it might have turned out much better.

Deleted account DD · 09-03-2011, 19:57

Whatever your view of the police and their failures or success, there will be more failures and bad news if all of this is implemented.

The reason for that is so simple theyre either ignoring it or overlookng it trying to be clever looking beyond.

Policing is not as simple as they would have you believe. First question is what actually is the so called tabloid and govt developed group of "front line" ? no definition has ever been published anywhere. Lots of debate and opinion but no set criteria.

What is percieved as the front line, ie uniformed response and neighborhoods despite the generally excellent work they do imho , are only a small part in a very big picture.

Behind them you have massive support and investigative set ups who like them generally do a great job.

The crux is those units are usually staffed by experienced or well switched on cops.

The new proposals quite simply dont support retention of those groups.

I genuinely believe you will see a situation, hopefully not in my lifetime, where policing is 100% fire brigade response. ie dash out biff a burglar and do nothing else and an experienced cop will be one who has dry ink on their sign on papers.

Its all masked in political speak, police bashing and excuses but theres no way this review will increase the quality of policing in the UK, it physically cant.

Right to strike? no we dont have that. What we do have is a situation (certainly in my job) where we are security cleared to a high level, i have to be aware of and notify as applicable who i live with , associate with even where i live and loads more. I hold an "office" dont just have a job. Thats how they justify that.

What theyre doing now though is enforcing employee conditions on us that dont reconise the restrictions on us.

My argument is if i have straightforward employee conditions , i want employee rights including the right to strike. The silence on the line marked response is deafening.

Honest Jace , its ******* nightmare for everyone including your good selves.

Deleted account DD · 09-03-2011, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by macabethiel

It got a lot of bad press but I thought 90% of the Sheehey Report was spot on.

I think the timing was an issue as a lot of criticism was made of poorly performing officers many of whom were the backbone of the force when pay was bad in earlier years.

I thought The Police Federation went a bit OTT at the time. If we had negociated instead of spitting our dummy out it might have turned out much better.

I think some elements of it were ok. I happily support any measures to get rid of lazy gits but sheehy tried to go in too deep too faston more than that imho

Problem is each generation has its own battles but the next sees the result as the norm because they dont know any differently.

09-03-2011, 20:04

oh i agree mate lots goes on behind scenes and as with any big org the ones who can suck arse and speak the mumbo jumbo will get promoted yet the real valuable and exsperianced ones who refuse to bull shit will be pensioned off leaving a vacuam!
the spin machine has started moving against you already,allowences at x amount,overtime at x amount every other civil servant blah blah death by thousand cuts mate!

Deleted account DD · 09-03-2011, 20:15

Its a nightmare

tbh the missus and i will be ok, not as well off as we hoped to be but ok. But I do genuinely worry for many of my more vulnerable colleagues who feel the pinch already.

Just to put it in perspective, the Nissan factory production ops (and good luck to themm they promote the UK economy) earn more than a young in service cop.

One last point to those who maybe see Winsor as a good sensible sort.........

One of his previous forays into government sub contracting was as the rail regulator. If thats the best his cv can spew out we all need to be very afraid

09-03-2011, 20:21

i remember delivering to sunderland nissan i came back to gate empty middle of night no one else about,the jobsworth in gate wouldnt open barrier or come out to tell me why,it turned out i was at the inn side not out side gate had to back up move across to correct gate to be let out! i couldve understood if i was blockin acess but no soddin one there lol!

09-03-2011, 19:50	#17
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	Sheehey Report It got a lot of bad press but I thought 90% of the Sheehey Report was spot on. I think the timing was an issue as a lot of criticism was made of poorly performing officers many of whom were the backbone of the force when pay was bad in earlier years. I thought The Police Federation went a bit OTT at the time. If we had negociated instead of spitting our dummy out it might have turned out much better.

09-03-2011, 19:36	#16
jace Guest Posts: n/a	are police not alowed to strike/have union? work to rule being our only weapon? bet most overtime came from prisoners in police cells when prisons full. i dont think less oficers will mean more crime,people arent suddenly going to go on rampage because theres x amount less coppers in there area and apart from motorists most crime is detected by someone telling the police whos commited it,not police actualy catching them in act!

09-03-2011, 19:57	#18
Deleted account DD Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,705	Whatever your view of the police and their failures or success, there will be more failures and bad news if all of this is implemented. The reason for that is so simple theyre either ignoring it or overlookng it trying to be clever looking beyond. Policing is not as simple as they would have you believe. First question is what actually is the so called tabloid and govt developed group of "front line" ? no definition has ever been published anywhere. Lots of debate and opinion but no set criteria. What is percieved as the front line, ie uniformed response and neighborhoods despite the generally excellent work they do imho , are only a small part in a very big picture. Behind them you have massive support and investigative set ups who like them generally do a great job. The crux is those units are usually staffed by experienced or well switched on cops. The new proposals quite simply dont support retention of those groups. I genuinely believe you will see a situation, hopefully not in my lifetime, where policing is 100% fire brigade response. ie dash out biff a burglar and do nothing else and an experienced cop will be one who has dry ink on their sign on papers. Its all masked in political speak, police bashing and excuses but theres no way this review will increase the quality of policing in the UK, it physically cant. Right to strike? no we dont have that. What we do have is a situation (certainly in my job) where we are security cleared to a high level, i have to be aware of and notify as applicable who i live with , associate with even where i live and loads more. I hold an "office" dont just have a job. Thats how they justify that. What theyre doing now though is enforcing employee conditions on us that dont reconise the restrictions on us. My argument is if i have straightforward employee conditions , i want employee rights including the right to strike. The silence on the line marked response is deafening. Honest Jace , its ******* nightmare for everyone including your good selves.

09-03-2011, 20:04	#20
jace Guest Posts: n/a	oh i agree mate lots goes on behind scenes and as with any big org the ones who can suck arse and speak the mumbo jumbo will get promoted yet the real valuable and exsperianced ones who refuse to bull shit will be pensioned off leaving a vacuam! the spin machine has started moving against you already,allowences at x amount,overtime at x amount every other civil servant blah blah death by thousand cuts mate!

09-03-2011, 20:15	#21
Deleted account DD Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,705	Its a nightmare tbh the missus and i will be ok, not as well off as we hoped to be but ok. But I do genuinely worry for many of my more vulnerable colleagues who feel the pinch already. Just to put it in perspective, the Nissan factory production ops (and good luck to themm they promote the UK economy) earn more than a young in service cop. One last point to those who maybe see Winsor as a good sensible sort......... One of his previous forays into government sub contracting was as the rail regulator. If thats the best his cv can spew out we all need to be very afraid

09-03-2011, 20:21	#22
jace Guest Posts: n/a	i remember delivering to sunderland nissan i came back to gate empty middle of night no one else about,the jobsworth in gate wouldnt open barrier or come out to tell me why,it turned out i was at the inn side not out side gate had to back up move across to correct gate to be let out! i couldve understood if i was blockin acess but no soddin one there lol!