Pls Help! Towing weight woes!! - Page 2

Thomas-the-Terrano2 · 28-12-2010, 23:35

err can some of the the gvw be transsfered to tow weight

in other words if carrying full weight, then tow weight goes up.

after all same weight for the engine and box to move.

whats the kerb weight, take that off gross, get max load,

then add that to 1700, surely same as tugging 1700 and
carrying part of the load in the car. again provide gross train
weight isnt exceeded.

kerb of an auto might be up on a manual as slush box heavier
typically, think my lwb t2 was around 1800kg kerb weight
as that would give max load in car of 700 or so.

worth playing with maths if can keep car fairly empty, guess
depends how much tack? you would carry overall.

MudLifeCrisis · 29-12-2010, 01:28

Unfortunately the maximum towing limit is just that , the maximum it can tow and can not be exceeded.

Thomas-the-Terrano2 · 29-12-2010, 09:39

dont think max tow weight is legal issue, not like gross train.

more of a guide, ie weight car can get mving on a certain
gradient, think it used to be a 1 in 8.

shame as the british autos are far tougher than those found
in say mistrals ang gre imports where back in the jap home
land they dont tow like us and if do max tow is 750kg!

oh well prob best taking back, no boubt about the mis-sell
aspect.

also funny, sad, as on the auto troll, its 3500 tow weight
just like manual so that one must be heavy duty.

lacroupade · 29-12-2010, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas-the-Terrano2

dont think max tow weight is legal issue, not like gross train.

more of a guide, ie weight car can get mving on a certain
gradient, think it used to be a 1 in 8.

shame as the british autos are far tougher than those found
in say mistrals ang gre imports where back in the jap home
land they dont tow like us and if do max tow is 750kg!

oh well prob best taking back, no boubt about the mis-sell
aspect.

also funny, sad, as on the auto troll, its 3500 tow weight
just like manual so that one must be heavy duty.

Its a good point because the 3.0 ltr T2 auto also has the same weight limit as the 3.0 ltr manual. Maybe its an issue with the autobox fitted to the 2.7? I'm certainly convinced that I buggered mine up ages ago by significantly exceeding the limit.

felixthelogchopper · 29-12-2010, 11:23

Contract is void for mutual mistake ( Raffles v Wichelhaus ) as you thought you were buying something that you weren't, ie a vehicle capable of towing your horsebox. If the salesroom you bought from get sniffy about it, mention the fact that you were supposedly dealing with an expert in your position as an amateur and so their opinion is held to be legally relied upon as to the nature of the inducement offered, namely the towing ability ( Esso Petroleum Co. Ltd v Mardon ). Above all, this is what Trading Standards are there for so let them do the hard work

lacroupade · 29-12-2010, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by felixthelogchopper

Contract is void for mutual mistake ( Raffles v Wichelhaus ) as you thought you were buying something that you weren't, ie a vehicle capable of towing your horsebox. If the salesroom you bought from get sniffy about it, mention the fact that you were supposedly dealing with an expert in your position as an amateur and so their opinion is held to be legally relied upon as to the nature of the inducement offered, namely the towing ability ( Esso Petroleum Co. Ltd v Mardon ). Above all, this is what Trading Standards are there for so let them do the hard work

With respect, the Esso case was about a duff prediction of future sales volume, as opposed to a statement that a particular criteria would meet a parties specified requirement. Neither was this a 'mutual mistake' IMHO although I see where you are coming from....this is a clear cut case of misrepresentation by the seller (the alleged expert) in respect of a condition specified by the buyer.

And don't rely too heavily on Trading Standards in this case....they will probably advise both parties of what the law says in this situation, but if push came to shove it would still reuire legal action by the buyer to remedy the position.

(RIP) PLANK · 29-12-2010, 13:38

some interesint towing stuff can be found here:

http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/f...es/towing-laws

TT2 bear inmind the traine wiegts stamped on vehicles are absolute when using a commercial variant, but i beleive there is some legal flexibility if it is a car, there was a test case in court where a Nissan serena was towing beyoind it's gross weight (delivering a car on a trailer). The nissan dealer claimed the train weight on the plate reffered to the van it was converted from (at the nissan factory) and not the car it now was - they won!

cm2581 · 29-12-2010, 14:22

AW HELP HELP HELP!!!

Nissan are saying 2.8 tonnes!! DVLA saying max towing weight (by law) is GVW (2580kg) - GTW (4280kg) as per stamped on the VIN plate!! Which equals 1700kg!! Garage trying to be helpful but said if Nissan say 2.8 tonnes then that's what it is!!! I then said about DVLA and he said Oh. He would need to look further into this to get clarification of the tow weight before taking anything any further! Where can I get something difinitive or someone who will tell them difinitively it is 1700kg?!!!!?

AAAARRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

cm2581 · 29-12-2010, 14:23

PS I don't want to have to go to court to argue anything!!!

cm2581 · 29-12-2010, 14:37

Oh and whilst its all beautifully listed on Parkers, according to the sales manager, the motor trade have boycotted Parkers as they had conflicting and wrong information. But by his own addmission, Glass's don't have the vehicle's data!!!!!

Deleted account DD · 29-12-2010, 14:40

At the end of the day, however you interpret any plate re gross train weight etc if you tow more than the rated spec of the vehicle, which for an auto T2 is way below youre required 2.5t, you have an unroadworthy vehicle.

You faceknacking your auto box , prosecution for overloading, and not being covered insurance wise

cncfabs · 29-12-2010, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by cm2581

AW HELP HELP HELP!!!

Nissan are saying 2.8 tonnes!! DVLA saying max towing weight (by law) is GVW (2580kg) - GTW (4280kg) as per stamped on the VIN plate!! Which equals 1700kg!! Garage trying to be helpful but said if Nissan say 2.8 tonnes then that's what it is!!! I then said about DVLA and he said Oh. He would need to look further into this to get clarification of the tow weight before taking anything any further! Where can I get something difinitive or someone who will tell them difinitively it is 1700kg?!!!!?

AAAARRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

The definitive answer is on the vin plate if its says 1700kg then thats that.

(RIP) PLANK · 29-12-2010, 14:52

this is interesting but no mention of difference between auto and manual:

http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp#tab1

as my above post said, the train wieght as on the pate reffers more to commercials than privte cars, i would call nissan and specify that it is an auto!

(RIP) PLANK · 29-12-2010, 15:03

I've just phoned our local dealer and spoke to the service manager, his official nissan documents state no diffference manual to auto and a capacity of 2800 kilos for a 2.7 td and a 2.7 tdi. However the same document states the auto 3.0 can tow 2000k and the manual 3000k, so a tonne difference! which seems to be at odds with other opinions!

rustic · 29-12-2010, 15:21

On another slant on your requirements, you mention you want to tow 2.5 tonne, have you actually weighed the trailer or the horses to check their actual weight, or are you going by the trailer plate and the vets estimate?

I have had my manual 2.7TD nearly 16 years and I was not aware of the much lower towing capacity of the Automatic.

It looks on paper then that the 2 litre mondeo could legally tow my boat and trailer, even though it is 26feet overall and close to 2 tonne.

Hmm..... I know what I would rather tow with....

28-12-2010, 23:35	#16
Thomas-the-Terrano2 Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hackenthorpe Sheffield Vehicle: Terrano2 R20 lwb 2.7TDi Posts: 5,234	err can some of the the gvw be transsfered to tow weight in other words if carrying full weight, then tow weight goes up. after all same weight for the engine and box to move. whats the kerb weight, take that off gross, get max load, then add that to 1700, surely same as tugging 1700 and carrying part of the load in the car. again provide gross train weight isnt exceeded. kerb of an auto might be up on a manual as slush box heavier typically, think my lwb t2 was around 1800kg kerb weight as that would give max load in car of 700 or so. worth playing with maths if can keep car fairly empty, guess depends how much tack? you would carry overall. __________________ M6YTB / 20YTB '60' 2010 Ford C Max Zetec 1.6i, black '56' 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0TD, silver 2021 Bailey Pegasus Grade SE Turin caravan Smile, its more likely to confuse. One Life, Don't Just Live It, Drive a Nissan, or ...... a Jeep. Owner of Nissan 4x4s 2005 to 2019, and maybe in the future too!

29-12-2010, 09:39	#18
Thomas-the-Terrano2 Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hackenthorpe Sheffield Vehicle: Terrano2 R20 lwb 2.7TDi Posts: 5,234	dont think max tow weight is legal issue, not like gross train. more of a guide, ie weight car can get mving on a certain gradient, think it used to be a 1 in 8. shame as the british autos are far tougher than those found in say mistrals ang gre imports where back in the jap home land they dont tow like us and if do max tow is 750kg! oh well prob best taking back, no boubt about the mis-sell aspect. also funny, sad, as on the auto troll, its 3500 tow weight just like manual so that one must be heavy duty. __________________ M6YTB / 20YTB '60' 2010 Ford C Max Zetec 1.6i, black '56' 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0TD, silver 2021 Bailey Pegasus Grade SE Turin caravan Smile, its more likely to confuse. One Life, Don't Just Live It, Drive a Nissan, or ...... a Jeep. Owner of Nissan 4x4s 2005 to 2019, and maybe in the future too!

29-12-2010, 15:21	#30
rustic Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Staffordshire Vehicle: Maverick Mk I 2.7 TD LWB Posts: 7,825	On another slant on your requirements, you mention you want to tow 2.5 tonne, have you actually weighed the trailer or the horses to check their actual weight, or are you going by the trailer plate and the vets estimate? I have had my manual 2.7TD nearly 16 years and I was not aware of the much lower towing capacity of the Automatic. It looks on paper then that the 2 litre mondeo could legally tow my boat and trailer, even though it is 26feet overall and close to 2 tonne. Hmm..... I know what I would rather tow with.... __________________ Ford Maverick GLX 1995 2.7TD LWB in illusion silver, 98k miles. Owned since new, for 22 years. Best car I have ever owned. Just wish I could drive it more.

29-12-2010, 01:28	#17
MudLifeCrisis Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: St Albans Herts Vehicle: 1997 Mav 2.7tdi lwb Posts: 1,377	Unfortunately the maximum towing limit is just that , the maximum it can tow and can not be exceeded.

29-12-2010, 11:23	#20
felixthelogchopper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Essex Vehicle: 1996 Ford Maverick 2.7TDi Posts: 284	Contract is void for mutual mistake ( Raffles v Wichelhaus ) as you thought you were buying something that you weren't, ie a vehicle capable of towing your horsebox. If the salesroom you bought from get sniffy about it, mention the fact that you were supposedly dealing with an expert in your position as an amateur and so their opinion is held to be legally relied upon as to the nature of the inducement offered, namely the towing ability ( Esso Petroleum Co. Ltd v Mardon ). Above all, this is what Trading Standards are there for so let them do the hard work

29-12-2010, 13:38	#22
(RIP) PLANK Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Central England, in the Heart of the Black Country Vehicle: T2 2004 TDI SE LWB Posts: 7,740	some interesint towing stuff can be found here: http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/f...es/towing-laws TT2 bear inmind the traine wiegts stamped on vehicles are absolute when using a commercial variant, but i beleive there is some legal flexibility if it is a car, there was a test case in court where a Nissan serena was towing beyoind it's gross weight (delivering a car on a trailer). The nissan dealer claimed the train weight on the plate reffered to the van it was converted from (at the nissan factory) and not the car it now was - they won!

29-12-2010, 14:22	#23
cm2581 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: scotland Vehicle: Terrano Posts: 19	AW HELP HELP HELP!!! Nissan are saying 2.8 tonnes!! DVLA saying max towing weight (by law) is GVW (2580kg) - GTW (4280kg) as per stamped on the VIN plate!! Which equals 1700kg!! Garage trying to be helpful but said if Nissan say 2.8 tonnes then that's what it is!!! I then said about DVLA and he said Oh. He would need to look further into this to get clarification of the tow weight before taking anything any further! Where can I get something difinitive or someone who will tell them difinitively it is 1700kg?!!!!? AAAARRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

29-12-2010, 14:23	#24
cm2581 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: scotland Vehicle: Terrano Posts: 19	PS I don't want to have to go to court to argue anything!!!

29-12-2010, 14:37	#25
cm2581 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: scotland Vehicle: Terrano Posts: 19	Oh and whilst its all beautifully listed on Parkers, according to the sales manager, the motor trade have boycotted Parkers as they had conflicting and wrong information. But by his own addmission, Glass's don't have the vehicle's data!!!!!

29-12-2010, 14:40	#26
Deleted account DD Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,705	At the end of the day, however you interpret any plate re gross train weight etc if you tow more than the rated spec of the vehicle, which for an auto T2 is way below youre required 2.5t, you have an unroadworthy vehicle. You faceknacking your auto box , prosecution for overloading, and not being covered insurance wise

29-12-2010, 14:52	#28
(RIP) PLANK Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Central England, in the Heart of the Black Country Vehicle: T2 2004 TDI SE LWB Posts: 7,740	this is interesting but no mention of difference between auto and manual: http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp#tab1 as my above post said, the train wieght as on the pate reffers more to commercials than privte cars, i would call nissan and specify that it is an auto!

29-12-2010, 15:03	#29
(RIP) PLANK Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Central England, in the Heart of the Black Country Vehicle: T2 2004 TDI SE LWB Posts: 7,740	I've just phoned our local dealer and spoke to the service manager, his official nissan documents state no diffference manual to auto and a capacity of 2800 kilos for a 2.7 td and a 2.7 tdi. However the same document states the auto 3.0 can tow 2000k and the manual 3000k, so a tonne difference! which seems to be at odds with other opinions!