DVLA Bar Stewards... - Page 2

Liam · 22-12-2010, 17:25

Sorry,daved, it's not clear from your reply whether you believe the UK is a Democracy or a Police State and I would be interested to know which you think it is, because of your job primarily. If you can explain your answer in simple terms,that would be great, because from where I'm sitting, the UK is not Democratic and the more I see the way the Police behave on TV ,the more I'm inclined to think it IS a Police State. That worries me because our Government have a long established tradition of following what happens in the UK

Not trying to cause anyone offence but I really believe there is a whole world crap coming down the tracks and not just in the UK but the US and rest of Europe too. I think Ocelot has it right,revolution or at the very least large scale civil disobedience.

lacroupade · 22-12-2010, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by daved

Unfortunately its nothing to do with democracy, police state or otherwise.

The offence is whats termed "an absolute" its either occured or not. On this occasion it occured because noting was registered one way or the other.

Democracy and judicial process does allow apeal to prove innocence but theres no need to look at anything other than are dvla correct and thats a yes or no or is there mitigation such as letter lost in post

Do the crime, pay the fine

My personal thoughts are theyre a bit bloody pedantic and I wish they were as fast off the mark refunding

But thats my point.

Its a crime to drive my car untaxed on a public highway, but since when is it a crime to park it in a field and mind my own bloody business?

You start to understand these US survivalists a bit more every day!

cncfabs · 22-12-2010, 19:22

[QUOTE=lacroupade;121233]But thats my point.
, but since when is it a crime to park it in a field and mind my own bloody business?

About 10 years now its called continuous registaration it is free to declare sorn (for now at least)

(RIP) PLANK · 22-12-2010, 20:01

i'm with lacroupade on this, an automatic fine for a crime that may never have happened with no evidence to prove it has, is rediculous. But i suppose it's the same as having a TV and not turning it on for months, you would still be fined for not having a licence.

Deleted account DD · 22-12-2010, 20:30

I think the budding revolutionaries need to chill and take a step back.

Please explain to me why the actions of the dvla on an offence (not a crime incidentally) warrant describing the UK as a police state ?

Deleted account DD · 22-12-2010, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLANK

i'm with lacroupade on this, an automatic fine for a crime that may never have happened with no evidence to prove it has, is rediculous. But i suppose it's the same as having a TV and not turning it on for months, you would still be fined for not having a licence.

its a penalty not a crime (i think its a civil penalty??) for failing to comply with very basic guidelines and rules.

The guidelines are actually in place for good reason and work very very well.They are also incredibly simple and on the same document as the retaxing instructions.

Its one of those things where the penalised who drop a bollock feel hard done by but those of us who can use them to take unlawful drivers off the road and crush unroadworthy dangerous cars. It also enables community vehicles to be dealt with.

Definitely a case of the innocent have noting to worry about.

The people I have heard complain the most about this system either dont understand it, have fallen foul of it , are civil liberty biased for the sake of it or do have something to hide.

I have my personal thoughts about dvla but theyre not remotely relevant to the principle of sorn.

cncfabs · 22-12-2010, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by daved

its a penalty not a crime (i think its a civil penalty??) for failing to comply with very basic guidelines and rules.

The guidelines are actually in place for good reason and work very very well.They are also incredibly simple and on the same document as the retaxing instructions.

Its one of those things where the penalised who drop a bollock feel hard done by but those of us who can use them to take unlawful drivers off the road and crush unroadworthy dangerous cars. It also enables community vehicles to be dealt with.

Definitely a case of the innocent have noting to worry about.

The people I have heard complain the most about this system either dont understand it, have fallen foul of it , are civil liberty biased for the sake of it or do have something to hide.

I have my personal thoughts about dvla but theyre not remotely relevant to the principle of sorn.

"Definitely a case of the innocent have noting to worry about"

unless im my case when i declared sorn still they tried to issue a fine

Deleted account DD · 22-12-2010, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam

Sorry,daved, it's not clear from your reply whether you believe the UK is a Democracy or a Police State and I would be interested to know which you think it is, because of your job primarily. If you can explain your answer in simple terms,that would be great, because from where I'm sitting, the UK is not Democratic and the more I see the way the Police behave on TV ,the more I'm inclined to think it IS a Police State. That worries me because our Government have a long established tradition of following what happens in the UK

Not trying to cause anyone offence but I really believe there is a whole world crap coming down the tracks and not just in the UK but the US and rest of Europe too. I think Ocelot has it right,revolution or at the very least large scale civil disobedience.

My personal thoughts are not at all relevant to this thread.

However I can state with some authority (and education) that the uk is not remotely a police state.

I also struggle to think of any truly democratic country.

Deleted account DD · 22-12-2010, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam

the more I see the way the Police behave on TV ,the more I'm inclined to think it IS a Police State.

compare the basis of that perception to the similar example of condemnation through not knowing or understanding the full story http://www.nissan4x4ownersclub.com/f...ad.php?t=10878

kbekl · 22-12-2010, 21:54

the system in place is crap the whole sorn thing isnt to keep the illegal off the road, if it is it is doing a very poor job

on average how many illegal driver actually put the car in their name, we have some irish lads down our street that were trying to sell us a car that they have owned for about 8mths the details weren't in their name and the car was registered to a different address than their's probably a mates

what can dvla do then just issue fines ??

i had one from dvla when i was in cornwall and we fell foul of the law in regards to insurance one, car was taxed and moted just the car its self wasn't insured tho but we were insured to drive any vehicle under our policy, the car was taken and towed away until we could prove our insurance cover, we had an apology from the officer but wasnt give the vehicle back for free would have cost us £180 for a £100 scrap car (was for parts)so we signed it over to be scrapped the v5 was still in the car, 2 years latter we got a fine from dvla and was told that if we did not pay up the car would be clamped, well quick phone cal and all was sorted, was even down as scraped lol

the country is more like a dictatorship than democratic, if the people of this country stood up and done something about it, i think a few things would change.

their are far too many problems in this country

the police are at the moment ok and very undermanned but if the criminals were to ever get properly organized then it would stand no chance same as the government

the people of the country need to unite and then you may see some changes, but it will never happen we are too much of a bitchy state than a action one

Deleted account DD · 22-12-2010, 22:17

Oh dear another potential revolutionary. Fact of the matter is no one has yet provided a lasting example of efficient democracy as they perceive, yet this country teeters along constitutionally much the same as ever with the lack of democracy and free speech moaned about allowing views like some above to be expressed

Fact of the matter is public organisations are more accountable to the people now than ever before.

As far as taking scrappers of the road or not it does help.

Fair point if crims want cars they'll get them, a bit like guns but there's absolutely no doubt that the laws now in place have helped deal with them and other dodgy vehicles.

Organised criminality has and always will be a problem. Disorganised criminality becomes an easier target.

Car seized wrongly? mistakes happen. I simply dont believe the account above is the full story. I am well aware of cars seized in error. All costs were reimbursed without question if it was not the drivers fault. saves a lot of litigation

Deleted account DD · 22-12-2010, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbekl

the people of the country need to unite and then you may see some changes, but it will never happen we are too much of a bitchy state than a action one

lmfao......................

Having just been round Tescos Id say most people cant organise a weeks shopping, let alone a revolution.

Scargill tried and rightly failed..............who?

kbekl · 22-12-2010, 22:37

lol, oh i know but surly dave you cant agree what is currently going on in the country and something does need to be done, take the banks at the mo heavily bailed out by government and this year some people's bonuses are hitting 2mil yet we are in a recession, yet the staff at the banks get rewarded for putting us their

it was that my step dad was from turkey and didnt understand fully what was being said

he was asked about insurance and he said yes i have insurance for any car, the legislation of the insurance companies changed at the point but it had only just changed that the car need to be insured and not just the driver but he had only just got it that day, i was then phoned by the police when he got stopped due to lack of communication understanding, i had no problem with it happening it was the dvla thing that i was on about, but thought i better give a bit of back story

Deleted account DD · 22-12-2010, 22:53

I do feel sorry for folk who get it wrong or are victims of someone else getting it wrong 9 times out of 10 they are thoroughly decent folk

I also think the country is in shit state.

Im not bright enough to work out exactly what made it go wrong but I hold the "New Labour" administration massively to blame.

We've had some awful politicians from all sides of the fence but nothing quite as bad as a government who were voted in because the leader had a nice smile, was everyones best mate but had no decent policies. The list is endless but one of his greatest faux pas was declaring Brown one of the greatest chancellors ever

kbekl · 22-12-2010, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by daved

I do feel sorry for folk who get it wrong or are victims of someone else getting it wrong 9 times out of 10 they are thoroughly decent folk

I also think the country is in shit state.

Im not bright enough to work out exactly what made it go wrong but I hold the "New Labour" administration massively to blame.

We've had some awful politicians from all sides of the fence but nothing quite as bad as a government who were voted in because the leader had a nice smile, was everyones best mate but had no decent policies. The list is endless but one of his greatest faux pas was declaring Brown one of the greatest chancellors ever

i havnt voted in the last 2 elections just because their isnt anything worth voting for and all the spiel they give out is just lies so you vote for them

wounder what would happen if no one voted

22-12-2010, 17:25	#16
Liam Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Laois,Ireland Posts: 923	Sorry,daved, it's not clear from your reply whether you believe the UK is a Democracy or a Police State and I would be interested to know which you think it is, because of your job primarily. If you can explain your answer in simple terms,that would be great, because from where I'm sitting, the UK is not Democratic and the more I see the way the Police behave on TV ,the more I'm inclined to think it IS a Police State. That worries me because our Government have a long established tradition of following what happens in the UK Not trying to cause anyone offence but I really believe there is a whole world crap coming down the tracks and not just in the UK but the US and rest of Europe too. I think Ocelot has it right,revolution or at the very least large scale civil disobedience.

22-12-2010, 19:22	#18
cncfabs Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: somerset Vehicle: terrano Posts: 1,947	[QUOTE=lacroupade;121233]But thats my point. , but since when is it a crime to park it in a field and mind my own bloody business? About 10 years now its called continuous registaration it is free to declare sorn (for now at least)

22-12-2010, 20:01	#19
(RIP) PLANK Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Central England, in the Heart of the Black Country Vehicle: T2 2004 TDI SE LWB Posts: 7,740	i'm with lacroupade on this, an automatic fine for a crime that may never have happened with no evidence to prove it has, is rediculous. But i suppose it's the same as having a TV and not turning it on for months, you would still be fined for not having a licence.

22-12-2010, 20:30	#20
Deleted account DD Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,705	I think the budding revolutionaries need to chill and take a step back. Please explain to me why the actions of the dvla on an offence (not a crime incidentally) warrant describing the UK as a police state ?

22-12-2010, 21:54	#25
kbekl Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Manchester Vehicle: Ford Maverick 2.7 LWB GLX Posts: 1,519	the system in place is crap the whole sorn thing isnt to keep the illegal off the road, if it is it is doing a very poor job on average how many illegal driver actually put the car in their name, we have some irish lads down our street that were trying to sell us a car that they have owned for about 8mths the details weren't in their name and the car was registered to a different address than their's probably a mates what can dvla do then just issue fines ?? i had one from dvla when i was in cornwall and we fell foul of the law in regards to insurance one, car was taxed and moted just the car its self wasn't insured tho but we were insured to drive any vehicle under our policy, the car was taken and towed away until we could prove our insurance cover, we had an apology from the officer but wasnt give the vehicle back for free would have cost us £180 for a £100 scrap car (was for parts)so we signed it over to be scrapped the v5 was still in the car, 2 years latter we got a fine from dvla and was told that if we did not pay up the car would be clamped, well quick phone cal and all was sorted, was even down as scraped lol the country is more like a dictatorship than democratic, if the people of this country stood up and done something about it, i think a few things would change. their are far too many problems in this country the police are at the moment ok and very undermanned but if the criminals were to ever get properly organized then it would stand no chance same as the government the people of the country need to unite and then you may see some changes, but it will never happen we are too much of a bitchy state than a action one

22-12-2010, 22:17	#26
Deleted account DD Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,705	Oh dear another potential revolutionary. Fact of the matter is no one has yet provided a lasting example of efficient democracy as they perceive, yet this country teeters along constitutionally much the same as ever with the lack of democracy and free speech moaned about allowing views like some above to be expressed Fact of the matter is public organisations are more accountable to the people now than ever before. As far as taking scrappers of the road or not it does help. Fair point if crims want cars they'll get them, a bit like guns but there's absolutely no doubt that the laws now in place have helped deal with them and other dodgy vehicles. Organised criminality has and always will be a problem. Disorganised criminality becomes an easier target. Car seized wrongly? mistakes happen. I simply dont believe the account above is the full story. I am well aware of cars seized in error. All costs were reimbursed without question if it was not the drivers fault. saves a lot of litigation

22-12-2010, 22:37	#28
kbekl Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Manchester Vehicle: Ford Maverick 2.7 LWB GLX Posts: 1,519	lol, oh i know but surly dave you cant agree what is currently going on in the country and something does need to be done, take the banks at the mo heavily bailed out by government and this year some people's bonuses are hitting 2mil yet we are in a recession, yet the staff at the banks get rewarded for putting us their it was that my step dad was from turkey and didnt understand fully what was being said he was asked about insurance and he said yes i have insurance for any car, the legislation of the insurance companies changed at the point but it had only just changed that the car need to be insured and not just the driver but he had only just got it that day, i was then phoned by the police when he got stopped due to lack of communication understanding, i had no problem with it happening it was the dvla thing that i was on about, but thought i better give a bit of back story

22-12-2010, 22:53	#29
Deleted account DD Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,705	I do feel sorry for folk who get it wrong or are victims of someone else getting it wrong 9 times out of 10 they are thoroughly decent folk I also think the country is in shit state. Im not bright enough to work out exactly what made it go wrong but I hold the "New Labour" administration massively to blame. We've had some awful politicians from all sides of the fence but nothing quite as bad as a government who were voted in because the leader had a nice smile, was everyones best mate but had no decent policies. The list is endless but one of his greatest faux pas was declaring Brown one of the greatest chancellors ever