Towing Speed

[illy]

I had to do an emergancy bracke and an avoidance manoevure on the m5 last year (not easy with a van on the back) to avoid three cars piroeting as a fourth car cut across from the right hand lane so as not to miss his exit, if id been doing 70 I hate to think of how it would have ended up. Sorry to drive at speed of 70 and + are crazy. Not to say a total disregard for other peoples saifty, you cant antisipate what the nob eliment are going to do infront of you.

Sorry if it offends but thats my opinion

illy

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by illy

I had to do an emergancy bracke and an avoidance manoevure on the m5 last year (not easy with a van on the back) to avoid three cars piroeting as a fourth car cut across from the right hand lane so as not to miss his exit, if id been doing 70 I hate to think of how it would have ended up. Sorry to drive at speed of 70 and + are crazy. Not to say a total disregard for other peoples saifty, you cant antisipate what the nob eliment are going to do infront of you.

Sorry if it offends but thats my opinion

illy

once a vehicle is going across in front of you instead of away in front of you speed becomes kind of irrelevant.

It comes down to a big chunk of good luck on top of anticipation and basic skills.

[rustic]

I've towed my boat on it's 4 wheeled trailer, overall length 26 feet and weighing about 2 tonnes, ie same as my Mav.

As the trailer wheels are further back than a Caravan of a similar length, and the boat is more stream lined, it tows as straight as a dart.

In fact it "tries" to cruise at 70 mph so you have to be more mindful and keep it to 60 mph, takes quite a concentration to keep it at that.


Any idiot can tow a trailer at high speed, it's when something goes wrong there is a problem.

The brakes on a trailer rely on the over-run principle, and if the set up is not in a perfect straight line when braking, then the trailer can overtake the car, ie jack knife. Worse on wet roads. I won't even consider ice or snow !
That's assuming that the brakes on the trailer have been serviced correctly, and not that the handbrake sort of works.

An MOT for a trailer/caravan.... could that happen ?

If the trailer brakes were independant and were controlled directly, eg say air brakes like on an artic, then this would me a much safer set up.
Having said that, the maximum legal speed is 60 mph for an artic on a motorway, 50 on dual carriageways, and ONLY 40 on single carriageways.
And the drivers of these vehicles have more driving hours than most caravan owners.

I rest my case.......

Having driven down the A14 and A11 hills ( What hills you say? ) towards roundabouts, it is then you realise how long it takes to stop this type of rig, even on a dry road, especially when some ***** pulls into your lane and starts braking for the roundabout. "We have a new crumple zone in front"

So you have to be more aware of what is around you, and where the escape route is.
The middle lane of a motorway doing 60+ mph is not a safe place to be, although you sometimes have to overtake lorries that are limited to 56 mph.

The driving test does not test the towing rules directly, you can get this bit wrong and still pass your test.
Maybe that's why I have been overtaken by a car and trailer in the third lane doing 80+ mph MANY TIMES
Even a 40+ foot glider trailer.....behind a small car.


Use the speed cameras to check on trailer speeds, and ( Going into song now.....

"Book em All"
"Book em All"
"The long and the short and the tall....."
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Add your own verse here.....



Basic towing advice.
Allow enough time for your journey.
Think twice before overtaking.
Make sure your car and trailer are fully serviced.
Plan your route, avoid steep hills, and narrow roads.
Don't overload the trailer/caravan.
Don't fit a stabiliser just to control an unstable load.
Get the hitch weight in the right region, see vehicle handbook.
The trailer and vehicle should be level.
Don't drive while tired or grumpy.
Take regular breaks.
Drive to the conditions, don't speed.
Have an escape route.
Keep your distance.
Have suitable mirrors that allow you to see past your trailer/caravan.
Make sure all lights work on the car and trailer/caravan.
Try to anticipate idiots, shouldn't be too difficult if you assume everyone is an idiot other than you.

Lots of other advice....

[davenclaire]

the driving test dosent need to contain towing rules its a test of basic driving if you want to tow anything nowadays you need to take a towing test. and every time you want to learn to drive a different class of vehicle then you need to sit a theory test for it. has any one tried the latest theory test ?

[rustic]

Originally Posted by davenclaire

the driving test dosent need to contain towing rules its a test of basic driving if you want to tow anything nowadays you need to take a towing test. and every time you want to learn to drive a different class of vehicle then you need to sit a theory test for it. has any one tried the latest theory test ?

There are many drivers on the road (like me) who have taken the old version of the test, and can drive any caravan set up without further tests.

There are many people in their 40's who just buy a trailer/caravan having never towed before. Perfectly legal.
I also include drivers of 4x4 vehicles towing an off road 4x4 on a trailer, or classic cars or bangers on a car transporter trailer.

The modern test does allow towing but with a maximum gross train weight, meaning that to tow a larger trailer/caravan they go for the lightest car. BIG MISTAKE !!!!

[dan]

Safe is 50, legal max has been raised to 60.

There are other reasons why people tow too fast or roll over.

1. Anti snake devices, such as Alco hitches stabilise the trailer. It is a bit of a oxymoron, as all it does in reality is take away the WARNING that you are starting to snake, until it is too much for the device to take - and that is certainly too much for many drivers to put right!

So remember; Alco hitches will remove the natural movement that acts as a warning - doesn't mean you can go faster....just means you won't know you have a problem until a little later!

2. Caravan ABS systems do lull the tugger into a false sense of security, as they feel the rules don't apply to them as the caravan is fitted with ABS. Yes it will make stopping easier when you need to - doesn't give you open access to drive like there is nothing behind you! Gadgets fail....and you have something like 20k worth on the back of your money!

3. Choice of tow vehicle is a factor - you not only want something with the weight that can tow a caravan, but something with soft enough suspension as not to damage the caravan chassis through vibration, but firm enough to hold its' own when the trailer wanders. Interestingly, 90% of matchstick accidents are towed by Discos! - don't feel you are above though, as the terrano is reknowned for having a soft ride!

4. State of the roads has a lot to do with it. Many of the motorways/dual carriageways under recent governments have been badly maintained. These result in deep ruts from heavier vehicles. When towing, these will throw you about as your trailer dips in and out of the ruts...it effects lorries as much as car/trailers - those weaving drivers are not asleep or drunk - the trailer is dragging the lorry around! Be aware of these, keep the speed down and try to straddle if able. Many roll overs strat of will an uncontrollable weave from ruts!

Thats some 'proffesional' advice from a guy that used to clear up the mess from matchstick martyrs, and tow lorries/trailers all over!

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by rustic

Any idiot can tow a trailer at high speed, it's when something goes wrong there is a problem.

correct but any idiot can drive any car at any speed . Thats the fundamental problem. Basic driving ability and awareness of whats going on and not just autopilot. some people should not be allowed out in pedal cars let alone to tow.

Originally Posted by rustic

The brakes on a trailer rely on the over-run principle,

becoming increasingly incorrect as a carte blanche, certainly the case on my vehicle and caravan particularly outside of routine slowing and braking.

http://www.al-ko.co.uk/pages/al-ko-atc.html Most vans that have that also now have more car lik suspension with shockers all round as opposed to the old squishy rubber bushes. you can tell the difference immediately you hit the road.

add all of that to a car that has a tow rate of 3.5tonnes with only 1.8 tonnes on the back which clocks in at less than 80% . has a trailer detection and stability control in the vehicles stabilty/traction system and i would suggest that you have a very safe solid set up that is well within its capabilties and makes for a hassle free towing possibly up to the Bailey rated max (where permissible of course) of 80mph, which is quite clearly stated in their handbook when talking about the tyres.

You do need a decent driver and loader for the set up and thats where the daft family in their ford focus with a twin axle senator on the back are the problem.

You just cant judge everyone the same.
dont forget as well when most speedos are showing around 65 youre probably doing a true 60

the ones id have every time (and have done ) are camping trailers, unbraked motorcycle and boat trailers et al towed at over 50mph. They are by far and away the most dangerous because you effectively have a pendulum on the back of your car over which even the best has little control under hard braking. Im sure theyve changed since i last looked but when i did most of the pram type tyres they have were only rated to 60mph

[rustic]

I like these open discussion posts,

I wasn't aware of the new technology going into caravans and trailers.

My concern with all these safety features, is that it can encourage people to drive faster thinking that they are "Captain Scarlet"

Certainly for the sensible driver it will make their journey safer, in the same way that air bags and ABS have saved many lives and serious injuries.

However hitting a tree is still a major killer at any speed over 25-30 mph.

A blowout on a trailer tyre (or the car) could still cause a crash, I know some trailers are now fitted with these bands that keep the tyre on the rim, but there is no immunity to mechanical failure, or driver error.

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by rustic

I like these open discussion posts,

Originally Posted by rustic

I wasn't aware of the new technology going into caravans and trailers.

My concern with all these safety features, is that it can encourage people to drive faster thinking that they are "Captain Scarlet"

Certainly for the sensible driver it will make their journey safer, in the same way that air bags and ABS have saved many lives and serious injuries.

However hitting a tree is still a major killer at any speed over 25-30 mph.

A blowout on a trailer tyre (or the car) could still cause a crash, I know some trailers are now fitted with these bands that keep the tyre on the rim, but there is no immunity to mechanical failure, or driver error.

I agree, these aids will make some pillocks think they are indestructible but then again i reckon air bags and abs had the same effect when they became common place

The way I look at this technology and how i reckon it should be viewed is a bit like a pilot, particularly fast jets.

They learn to fly on a very basic no frills seat of your pants jet which hones their basic skills (learning to drive) they then move on up the tree (extra bits on the licence) unti they reach wherever they want to go.

A common misconception about fast jet pilots is they fly the plane on their skill, a bit like towing they do but only to a degree. they need to literally keep a weather eye open, they need excellent spacial awareness but most surprising they would not be able to old something like a tornado in straight and level flight without their version of traction control, abs or alko trac. The planes are so inherently unstable they need electronics the likes of which are creeping into cars all the time to keep it safe and steady

Good driver plus good kit

On the puncture topic I agree too , one of my dreads but with a twin axle you do have more of a chance.

[bazza]

Originally Posted by illy

I had to do an emergancy bracke and an avoidance manoevure on the m5 last year (not easy with a van on the back) to avoid three cars piroeting as a fourth car cut across from the right hand lane so as not to miss his exit, if id been doing 70 I hate to think of how it would have ended up. Sorry to drive at speed of 70 and + are crazy. Not to say a total disregard for other peoples saifty, you cant antisipate what the nob eliment are going to do infront of you.

Sorry if it offends but thats my opinion

illy

well here go`s nowt ,,but after 25 years of been on the roads with a 44 tonner mate iv seen just about every kind of crash and the biggest one to date is people driving to slow and people ramming up there rear end .. think this is a case of why most car drivers hate caravans going far to slow ,, if people are to fightned to drive at 60/70 with a caravan on a 4x4 or a car well with in the same weight as there caravan , stop towing a caravan , or get a car that is twice the weight of the caravan . dont get a 2 ton caravan and think a ton of car to going to be ok to tow it ,, thats were things go wrong as for disregards for other road use this why i drive with the flow of the traffic so am not the one who get the one finger wave
no offend taken bazza

[dan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf02R5_ANZw

heres a good one of a blow out (only one car - not towing!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7ydX...eature=related

[TONUP]

Originally Posted by bazza

well here go`s nowt ,,but after 25 years of been on the roads with a 44 tonner mate iv seen just about every kind of crash and the biggest one to date is people driving to slow and people ramming up there rear end .. think this is a case of why most car drivers hate caravans going far to slow ,, if people are to fightned to drive at 60/70 with a caravan on a 4x4 or a car well with in the same weight as there caravan , stop towing a caravan , or get a car that is twice the weight of the caravan . dont get a 2 ton caravan and think a ton of car to going to be ok to tow it ,, thats were things go wrong as for disregards for other road use this why i drive with the flow of the traffic so am not the one who get the one finger wave
no offend taken bazza

No offence, but aren't quite a few accidents on the motorways caused by the drivers of 44 tonners, as you put it, straying into the hard shoulder, whilst they roll a fag, send a text or make a cup of tea etc etc. Sorry for the generalisation, but all drivers liesure and proffesional, become complacent and overconfident once they start to rely on safety equipment and/or their own sense of experience.

Alan

[bazza]

Originally Posted by TONUP

No offence, but aren't quite a few accidents on the motorways caused by the drivers of 44 tonners, as you put it, straying into the hard shoulder, whilst they roll a fag, send a text or make a cup of tea etc etc. Sorry for the generalisation, but all drivers liesure and proffesional, become complacent and overconfident once they start to rely on safety equipment and/or their own sense of experience.

Alan

yer very very ture mate ,, but them day of been a 44 tonner are over as health problems ,, force me to give my hgv up , i could of said nothing about it and carried on driving a time bomb , but i did put other road users first ,, and handed it back as for one i couldnt of lived with my self if i hurt/ killed any one , ,, just think of how many people out there dont say nothing to the dvla about change in there health

[rustic]

Originally Posted by dan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf02R5_ANZw

And this one was a twin axle caravan as well !

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by rustic

And this one was a twin axle caravan as well !

ahhh but we dont know the reason behind the smash.

people do the strangest things. friend of mine in blissful ignorance stored the full size awning under the fixed bed in the back of their senator. just didnt know better.

They do know after 30+kg of load in the wrong place wrote the car of and severely damaged the van!!

On a more general note and contrary to popular belief blow outs on cars and caravans are extremely rare. What usually happens is a a puncture occurs and the still rotating tyre cant handle the forces of sudden deflation so it disintegrates. Completely different to a blow out.

Competent drivers and good electronics can sometimes deal with the onset.