Interesting vegetable oil info/rough running

AlexD333 · 21-12-2014, 20:13

So some interesting discoveries today has also got me thinking on my past.

Fuel was in the red, warning light was on too, I have a long trip to devon tomorrow so I though let's neck it with fuel, 3 barrels of veg oil in the tank (engine still warm) we were playing with the audio when she began coughing and smoking heavy, to be expected as the oil is thick and cold, stopped at station and squeezed 8l of diesel in. Still no better, let the engine get nice and hot which improved things slightly but we had the old eml light come on typical code 21..

My suspicion is that the cold fuel is too thick to pass at an acceptable rate through the injector and or pump thus causing a mis fueling/starvation symptom and in turn chucking up injector fault. I have since squeezed 4.5l of petrol in too to try and thin the mix, but I might have to hit the road tomorrow and use up some fuel and replace as I go

Again e problem with motorway is that the wind chill factor will cool everything off, including the tank, making the stored and returning fuel cool off rapidly..

The only argument against this was when I ran the fuel low a few months back and added 30 quids worth of diesel it did not improve these weird symptoms, but this was also before I changed the fuel filter... (Which gives similar symptoms)

Silly me, have to get a good ratio going now winter is half here

Refresh my memory, what ratios are people running (people who are using veg)

Excluding terrano bob that will write "diesel diesel diesel" with

at the end of it

see what I did there

AlexD333 · 21-12-2014, 20:15

What I'm trying to say is that I suspect my running issues to be related to this.

All that doesent make sense is that spraying seemed to cure it

Or incredibly coincidental timing on several occasions... :nena

Perhaps more than one issue

Sweety · 21-12-2014, 20:41

Most run 50/50 mix in the winter

code 21 can be caused by air or water in the fuel & the later T2's don't have the water sensor fitted

& i'm sure i've read veg can easily absorb water so this could be your problem so I would drain the water tap on the filter or replace the thing again & start using a lot more diesel & less veg if nothing else your IP & seal will love you for it

Lincs Mav · 21-12-2014, 21:08

Don't use veg over a period of time I lost a lot of power from running on it. Took a good few miles with Derv in again to get full power back.

jims-terrano · 21-12-2014, 21:19

We've said it before but here goes run several tanks of dino diesel and see how it runs. Try veggie in summer may be but it does seem to cause a hell of a lot of problems.

rustic · 21-12-2014, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jims-terrano

We've said it before but here goes run several tanks of dino diesel and see how it runs. Try veggie in summer may be but it does seem to cause a hell of a lot of problems.

When I use Veg oil

I use it in the ratio of Diesel to Veg as 100:0

Never used veg oil, never had any running problems, starts first time every time...
Over a very long time, never had a spanner to the fuel system anywhere.... not even the mini filter

So looking at the reliabilty issues of veg in the winter, what savings can be really had, what value can you put on risking saving a few pennies to be left stranded.

What would it really cost if you were an hour late getting to the airport, and missing your flight.

So with the lower prices of diesel and petrol, has anybody noticed if veg oil is becoming cheaper, because if it is, then it is probably priced to follow fuel prices rather than a food type product. Just a thought...

Sweety · 21-12-2014, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustic

ol, has anybody noticed if veg oil is becoming cheaper, because if it is, then it is probably priced to follow fuel prices rather than a food type product. Just a thought...

I've noticed over the years every time fuel prices go up so does the price of veg oil

it's been costing me a bomb to cook my chips

don simon · 21-12-2014, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweety

I've noticed over the years every time fuel prices go up so does the price of veg oil

it's been costing me a bomb to cook my chips

olive oil is on the up too, dahling!

AlexD333 · 21-12-2014, 21:54

Interesting views. As mentioned above I believe I have hit the nail on the head, obviously 60litres of veg in winter is inappropriate,

I believe the wind chill will cool the veg oil down enough to cause you an issue in motorway work ect, stationary is ok once engine is warm, as rick mentioned the swirl chamber will stay warm, once on the move the fuel will splash about in the tank..

It's gonna be kept under Area 51 regulations until it's pictured and threaded

but it should hopefully allow me to run heavy veggie mixes.

I am also going to look into a volatile solution that is kind to rubber (if there is such a thing)

AlexD333 · 21-12-2014, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweety

Most run 50/50 mix in the winter

code 21 can be caused by air or water in the fuel & the later T2's don't have the water sensor fitted

& i'm sure i've read veg can easily absorb water so this could be your problem so I would drain the water tap on the filter or replace the thing again & start using a lot more diesel & less veg if nothing else your IP & seal will love you for it

Sorry I was trying to reply to your post in particular and wandered off

I don't believe it has absorbed water a I have just filled up and immediately had symptoms. Unless the sealed barrels are able to absorb? They are metal? Condensation?

On my last mix of 50/50 I had no running issues, coincidently at the same Time I sprayed everything... Well actually a slight delay but who knows...

Sweety · 21-12-2014, 22:26

Condensation could be a poss cause but who is to say the barrel was 100% veg & not a contaminated veg/water mix that got out of the factory you can also get condensation on the inside of your fuel tank which from what i've read is a big cause for diesel bug. Code 21 = Wiring, fuel injection timing solenoid, injector needle lift sensor, CKP sensor, air or water in fuel

solarman216 · 21-12-2014, 22:27

Possibly Alex the water has been absorbed prior to your last fill up, think I would be changing the filter as a safeguard, Rick

terrano bob · 21-12-2014, 22:46

see diesel diesel diesel then no problem safe journey

russell.huffer · 21-12-2014, 22:48

Glad the Patrol will not run on veg (seems terano not much better) I run low on fuel pull into garage add diesel till full then drive no probs.

How much money is really saved v how much damage and agro you get, if you do not want to buy expensive fuels buy a petrol and get LPG conversion.

Kind regards

Russell.

terrano bob · 21-12-2014, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by russell.huffer

Glad the Patrol will not run on veg (seems terano not much better) I run low on fuel pull into garage add diesel till full then drive no probs.

How much money is really saved v how much damage and agro you get, if you do not want to buy expensive fuels buy a petrol and get LPG conversion.

Kind regards

Russell.

21-12-2014, 20:13	#1
AlexD333 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Uk Vehicle: 2004 Terrano 2.7 TDI Posts: 7,847	Interesting vegetable oil info/rough running So some interesting discoveries today has also got me thinking on my past. Fuel was in the red, warning light was on too, I have a long trip to devon tomorrow so I though let's neck it with fuel, 3 barrels of veg oil in the tank (engine still warm) we were playing with the audio when she began coughing and smoking heavy, to be expected as the oil is thick and cold, stopped at station and squeezed 8l of diesel in. Still no better, let the engine get nice and hot which improved things slightly but we had the old eml light come on typical code 21.. My suspicion is that the cold fuel is too thick to pass at an acceptable rate through the injector and or pump thus causing a mis fueling/starvation symptom and in turn chucking up injector fault. I have since squeezed 4.5l of petrol in too to try and thin the mix, but I might have to hit the road tomorrow and use up some fuel and replace as I go Again e problem with motorway is that the wind chill factor will cool everything off, including the tank, making the stored and returning fuel cool off rapidly.. The only argument against this was when I ran the fuel low a few months back and added 30 quids worth of diesel it did not improve these weird symptoms, but this was also before I changed the fuel filter... (Which gives similar symptoms) Silly me, have to get a good ratio going now winter is half here Refresh my memory, what ratios are people running (people who are using veg) Excluding terrano bob that will write "diesel diesel diesel" with at the end of it see what I did there

21-12-2014, 22:27	#12
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,430	Possibly Alex the water has been absorbed prior to your last fill up, think I would be changing the filter as a safeguard, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

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21-12-2014, 20:15	#2
AlexD333 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Uk Vehicle: 2004 Terrano 2.7 TDI Posts: 7,847	What I'm trying to say is that I suspect my running issues to be related to this. All that doesent make sense is that spraying seemed to cure it Or incredibly coincidental timing on several occasions... :nena Perhaps more than one issue

21-12-2014, 20:41	#3
Sweety Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Northumberland Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDI SE LWB Posts: 3,604	Most run 50/50 mix in the winter code 21 can be caused by air or water in the fuel & the later T2's don't have the water sensor fitted & i'm sure i've read veg can easily absorb water so this could be your problem so I would drain the water tap on the filter or replace the thing again & start using a lot more diesel & less veg if nothing else your IP & seal will love you for it

21-12-2014, 21:08	#4
Lincs Mav Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Lincolnshire Vehicle: Nissan terrano Posts: 405	Don't use veg over a period of time I lost a lot of power from running on it. Took a good few miles with Derv in again to get full power back.

21-12-2014, 21:19	#5
jims-terrano Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: UK Posts: 12,965	We've said it before but here goes run several tanks of dino diesel and see how it runs. Try veggie in summer may be but it does seem to cause a hell of a lot of problems.

21-12-2014, 21:54	#9
AlexD333 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Uk Vehicle: 2004 Terrano 2.7 TDI Posts: 7,847	Interesting views. As mentioned above I believe I have hit the nail on the head, obviously 60litres of veg in winter is inappropriate, I believe the wind chill will cool the veg oil down enough to cause you an issue in motorway work ect, stationary is ok once engine is warm, as rick mentioned the swirl chamber will stay warm, once on the move the fuel will splash about in the tank.. It's gonna be kept under Area 51 regulations until it's pictured and threaded but it should hopefully allow me to run heavy veggie mixes. I am also going to look into a volatile solution that is kind to rubber (if there is such a thing)

21-12-2014, 22:26	#11
Sweety Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Northumberland Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDI SE LWB Posts: 3,604	Condensation could be a poss cause but who is to say the barrel was 100% veg & not a contaminated veg/water mix that got out of the factory you can also get condensation on the inside of your fuel tank which from what i've read is a big cause for diesel bug. Code 21 = Wiring, fuel injection timing solenoid, injector needle lift sensor, CKP sensor, air or water in fuel

21-12-2014, 22:46	#13
terrano bob Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: north west Vehicle: nissan terrano 2 2.7tdi Posts: 1,015	see diesel diesel diesel then no problem safe journey

21-12-2014, 22:48	#14
russell.huffer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: South East Vehicle: Patrol 3.0 SVE Posts: 276	Glad the Patrol will not run on veg (seems terano not much better) I run low on fuel pull into garage add diesel till full then drive no probs. How much money is really saved v how much damage and agro you get, if you do not want to buy expensive fuels buy a petrol and get LPG conversion. Kind regards Russell.