Info needed please

[Lazy-Ferret]

With regards to the bearings, I have often wondered about this. I understand how spacers will "up" the bearing wear, but not how wider wheels, with the correct offset should do this.

I can see that if you take the standard wheel, and just move it out on spacers by 2", that you are putting a twisting torque on the bearings, making a lever that is pushing up on the front bearing, and down on the rear one. This has to be bad.

Surely though, if you just fit wider tyres, and you keep the same amount of tyre on the inside of the bearing, then there should not really be that much extra load on the bearings.

My thinking is, very simplified, if the wheel is 8" wide, and the bearing is 2" over all, then with a wheel with no offset, you have 2" on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and 4" on the outside. If you up the wheels to 10", and put in a 2" offset, then you still have 2 inches on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and now have 6" on the outside. Why would that put any more wear on the bearing?

Originally Posted by AlexD333

Tyres are not too big, elty is running 33's make it fit is running 35's

as mentioned its the offset of the wheels rubbing when on articulation

EDIT - im running 32's

What I do not understand in Alex's case, is how his wheel size got larger

What is the actual size of the tyres, I know mine are 265/70 x 16, which means the width of the tyre is 265mm give or take a small amount. the 70% profile means that overall the hight of the wall with respect to the width of the tyre is 70% of 265mm, so the wall is 186mm high, so with my tyres, I end up with around 777mm overall wheel diameter, which is 30.5", and I get no rubbing. So basically, using standard number rounding, I could say I am running on 31's, which is the standard size for my car.

I know a lot of people, when they want to increase the diameter, just fit a bigger width tyre, which by default, makes the tyre diameter larger, when really, you should only be adjusting the profile, so instead of 70%, you should go for 80%, which would give 830mm (32.5") overall wheel, but the width would remain the same, and therefore, in theory, not cause fouling.

So in Alex's case, is the tyre rubbing because the width is greater now he has fitted bigger tyres, or is it because he has increased the articulation, and now the wheel is just getting to places it was never designed to get to. From the pictures, it looks like the tyres are rubbing regardless, so it must be a width issue, and while spacers would solve this, the best way for the long term survivability of the cars mechanics is to either move the tyres onto different wheels with a different offset, moving the tyre away from the body, and hoping it does not then hit the outside of the wheel arch, or better still, spend lots and lots of dish, and get new tyres that are thinner, with a much larger profile.

[AlexD333]

Originally Posted by Lazy-Ferret

With regards to the bearings, I have often wondered about this. I understand how spacers will "up" the bearing wear, but not how wider wheels, with the correct offset should do this.

I can see that if you take the standard wheel, and just move it out on spacers by 2", that you are putting a twisting torque on the bearings, making a lever that is pushing up on the front bearing, and down on the rear one. This has to be bad.

Surely though, if you just fit wider tyres, and you keep the same amount of tyre on the inside of the bearing, then there should not really be that much extra load on the bearings.

My thinking is, very simplified, if the wheel is 8" wide, and the bearing is 2" over all, then with a wheel with no offset, you have 2" on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and 4" on the outside. If you up the wheels to 10", and put in a 2" offset, then you still have 2 inches on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and now have 6" on the outside. Why would that put any more wear on the bearing?




What I do not understand in Alex's case, is how his wheel size got larger

What is the actual size of the tyres, I know mine are 265/70 x 16, which means the width of the tyre is 265mm give or take a small amount. the 70% profile means that overall the hight of the wall with respect to the width of the tyre is 70% of 265mm, so the wall is 186mm high, so with my tyres, I end up with around 777mm overall wheel diameter, which is 30.5", and I get no rubbing. So basically, using standard number rounding, I could say I am running on 31's, which is the standard size for my car.

I know a lot of people, when they want to increase the diameter, just fit a bigger width tyre, which by default, makes the tyre diameter larger, when really, you should only be adjusting the profile, so instead of 70%, you should go for 80%, which would give 830mm (32.5") overall wheel, but the width would remain the same, and therefore, in theory, not cause fouling.

So in Alex's case, is the tyre rubbing because the width is greater now he has fitted bigger tyres, or is it because he has increased the articulation, and now the wheel is just getting to places it was never designed to get to. From the pictures, it looks like the tyres are rubbing regardless, so it must be a width issue, and while spacers would solve this, the best way for the long term survivability of the cars mechanics is to either move the tyres onto different wheels with a different offset, moving the tyre away from the body, and hoping it does not then hit the outside of the wheel arch, or better still, spend lots and lots of dish, and get new tyres that are thinner, with a much larger profile.

Cheers my dears, nice write up. Well me Elty and Steve were all lined up together, Steve is on 31's mine are bigger at 32 and also smaller than Eltys at 33, mine were advertised as 32's and are certaintly bigger than 31's and smaller than 33's

I cant remember for sure but seem to remember it rubbing only when offroading (before the rear arbs were removed)

removing the rear arb has obviously given it a huge amount of flex but I dont believe this to be the issue. The issue lies with the wheels I have chosen, they came off an Mitsubishi L200. We did encounter problems when going to fit these, the studs were quite short for the nut and also the shape of the alloy prevented us from fitting the original nuts.

I am going to ring the tyre/wheel place shortly and ask for their advise, but am thinking of getting a negative offset set of steel wheels, the question is, by how much

[Barrbeast]

Originally Posted by AlexD333

I am going to ring the tyre/wheel place shortly and ask for their advise, but am thinking of getting a negative offset set of steel wheels, the question is, by how much

Alex mate, nobody, not even the tyre place, will be able to tell you that without knowing the exact size of the tyre eg. mine are 265/75/16, (we need to know the width) and the offset of your original wheels...

[Fez_uk]

lazy ferret, in basic terms Wider tyres & wheel = more weight

Puts more stress on bearings, steering, suspension etc

[Fez_uk]

Alex you want minimum offset -10 or -20 will do it. But the chances of finding that offset without paying a few quid extra for that offset are low as most are -30.

You will always get some rubbing on the body work, Unless you make your arches bigger.

[elty001]

I think your main problem Alex,is the offset of the wheels you have on now.
combined with the tyre size its causing yours to rub on full articulation.
not 100% sure on your tyre size but i think they are 265/75/16.metric equivalent to 32 11.50 16.
when I had this size tyre on standard terrano 16 inch rims they where fine on the rear but rubbed on the steering arm on the bottom of the pas box so thats when I fitted 30mm spacers to give it the clearance.

[AlexD333]

Originally Posted by elty001

I think your main problem Alex,is the offset of the wheels you have on now.
combined with the tyre size its causing yours to rub on full articulation.
not 100% sure on your tyre size but i think they are 265/75/16.metric equivalent to 32 11.50 16.
when I had this size tyre on standard terrano 16 inch rims they where fine on the rear but rubbed on the steering arm on the bottom of the pas box so thats when I fitted 30mm spacers to give it the clearance.

yes they are 265/75/16

and I dont mind the arches rubbing id just cut them, but the arches are not rubbing, this is the chassis and the floor under the seats rubbing. It will eventually go through if I dont do something about it

Im pretty sure i've (fez) answered my own question, i need wheels with an offset of -20 or -30 and if this rubs on the arches then out comes the grinder again!

my fronts also catch on full lock slightly aswell

[AlexD333]

This is getting a bit tricky on budget, unfortunately I might have to get spacers for the rear and new studs, even if only a temp fix.

I do love the look of my wheels so gives me incentive to keep em

is a spacer going to make much difference compared to an offset wheel?

Im going to open a new thread about spacers n studs

[rustic]

Originally Posted by Lazy-Ferret

...My thinking is, very simplified, if the wheel is 8" wide, and the bearing is 2" over all, then with a wheel with no offset, you have 2" on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and 4" on the outside. If you up the wheels to 10", and put in a 2" offset, then you still have 2 inches on the inside of the bearing, 2" under the bearing, and now have 6" on the outside. Why would that put any more wear on the bearing?...

You have to assume that the weight of the car is carried by the centre of the tyre /wheel for your calculations, and in your scenario, the centre of the tyre has moved outwards, hence the greater load.
Hope that explains it.

Rustic

[AlexD333]

Originally Posted by rustic

You have to assume that the weight of the car is carried by the centre of the tyre /wheel for your calculations, and in your scenario, the centre of the tyre has moved outwards, hence the greater load.
Hope that explains it.

Rustic

Very good explanation actually!

[bud]

Alex most nissan's with wide body or flares from factory run factory negative offset, patrols, R3m terrano pathfinder, etc and by the looks of your rub you only need 10mm or so to fix the issue so a set of factory safari/patrol rims with a minus 18 or 22 offset would be fine.

[elty001]

Originally Posted by AlexD333

This is getting a bit tricky on budget, unfortunately I might have to get spacers for the rear and new studs, even if only a temp fix.

I do love the look of my wheels so gives me incentive to keep em

is a spacer going to make much difference compared to an offset wheel?



Im going to open a new thread about spacers n studs

If you buy the hub centric spacers like the ones in the link then no need to fit longer studs.
They bolt onto your existing studs and have studs pressed into the spacer that you bolt the wheels to.

[rustic]

Originally Posted by AlexD333

...Im going to open a new "thread" about spacers n "studs"

You must be "nuts" if you get my "pitch" ...

[Sweety]

Originally Posted by elty001

If you buy the hub centric spacers like the ones in the link then no need to fit longer studs.

Either i've gone blind due to stress over my truck or I can't find the link for the spacers 25-30mm would be what I want as would like the wheel track a bit wider & there is no way i'm fitting steel rims any time soon as I love my alloys even if tyres are really costly

[AlexD333]

Originally Posted by elty001

If you buy the hub centric spacers like the ones in the link then no need to fit longer studs.
They bolt onto your existing studs and have studs pressed into the spacer that you bolt the wheels to.

Ah this would be great! And I guess with the wheels off (fitting the spacers) there would be loads of available thread for the spacers and then for the wheels to bolt to also

This ticks all the boxes, I will have a look for this