soldering iron help

[(RIP) PLANK]

Originally Posted by rustic

The crimps, if used with the proper crimping tool, provides strain relief at the start of the crimp as the soft plastic of the crimp housing forms around the wire, held onto the outer insulation of the wire.
This moves the stress away from the crimp-wire interface.

The success of the good crimp, does rely on proper tooling, the simple cheap plier type crimp tools do not provide adequate strain relief, and I agree with your comment above if you are using this type of crimp tool.

The dual head ratchet type with insulation adjustment are the best type, but do cost more.

when you think about it a good crimp does the same as a good soldered joint then, the solid soldered section - like the crimp - is inflexible and the wire joined to it is so that takes the flex and most crimps are not well applied with quality tools! Plus a soldered joint will stand a good tug where a crimp will come apart. So at best they are the same, and generally speaking worse. I do love a good debate

[rustic]

Originally Posted by PLANK

when you think about it a good crimp does the same as a good soldered joint then, the solid soldered section - like the crimp - is inflexible and the wire joined to it is so that takes the flex and most crimps are not well applied with quality tools! Plus a soldered joint will stand a good tug where a crimp will come apart. So at best they are the same, and generally speaking worse. I do love a good debate

The major point is really how well secured the cables and their joints or crimps are, this will have a greater effect on the reliability.

If a crimped joint is in free air, say between the engine and the chassis, then its mass will make it more liable to failure, in the same way a soldered joint will.

So location of the joint in the wiring loom will be a key factor.

IF there is moisture around the connection, then there will be corrosion of the crimp, due to dissimilar metals. This also applies to the solder joint.

So the method used, needs to be suitable for the application, ie suitable for purpose.

I have used both methods of course, also heat shrink sleeving, even waxoyl over the crimp in exposed areas, and have had no breakages or poor connections with the crimps so far.

For the caravan socket, with stranded wire, I use the boot lace ferrules that provide strain relief and avoids the small screws cutting into the wires.

PS I like a good debate too....

[edgerton19]

Having worked in the aircraft industry in a former life and done vibration tests I can say properly formed crimps are far superior to solder joints BUT you need to use a proper crimp tool and decent crimps.

Given the choice I use AMP brand PIDG (plastic insulated diamond grip) with the correct crimp tools (which cost a fortune but a £10-20 rachet crimp tool will do a reasonable job).
The critical thing is to ensure the insulation is retained in the rear bucket of the crimp and 1-2 mm of wire is visible at the other end for inspection.

Remember the plastic crimps are colour coded for the wire size i.e. RED 22-18AWG, Blue 16-14AWG and Yellow 12-10 AWG this is a bit of an approximation but good enough for vehicle use. For perfect crimps you have to very carefully match the crimp to the wire and insulation size but this requires detailed study and a tame AMP rep as the AMP catalogues can be a pig to drive.

Solder joints tend to fail where the solder finishes in the multistrand bundle and causes a high stress point leading to fatigue failure during vibration.

BUT and it a big BUT never ever tin multistrand wire (solder consolidate) before fitting under a screw terminal i.e. trailer connectors. The solder cold flows under pressure and gives a bad high resistance connection after a period of time. This is a well documented failure mechanism and is forbidden in many BS and European standards e.g. BS EN 60950:2006 clause 3.3.8
"Stranded wire
The end of a stranded conductor shall not be consolidated by soft soldering at places where the conductor is subject to contact pressure unless the method of clamping is designed so as to reduce the likelihood of a bad contact due to cold flow of the solder."

As suggested above us boot-lace ferrules.

[(RIP) PLANK]

another tought! do a fair few joints in very high voltage low crrent wires (high vibration and exsposed to all weathers) and crimps would just not do! at over 10 Kv they drop too much voltage andof corse insulation to stop arcing is paramount. so a tripple insulated soldered joit is the only solution.

So the application is also factor here!

and my point is also proven by the above crimps need high quality tools and connectors before any of the claims for them hold water ;-)

[solarman216]

Originally Posted by solarman216

Crimps are a lot easier and safer too, Rick

Agreed but we are talking automotive wiring here so crimps with the correct ratchet tool are the way to go, Rick

[(RIP) PLANK]

Originally Posted by solarman216

Agreed but we are talking automotive wiring here so crimps with the correct ratchet tool are the way to go, Rick

I still think the jury is out on that one, so either will do use what you have got

[rustic]

Originally Posted by PLANK

I still think the jury is out on that one, so either will do use what you have got

Your jury might be

Mine has not changed their mind.
There was never a case to answer...

[makeitfit]

Can't tell you lot how many choc blocs holding my elecktickery together then
Not to mention all those blue quick fix piggy back things, they're brill

[(RIP) PLANK]

Originally Posted by rustic

Your jury might be

Mine has not changed their mind.
There was never a case to answer...

same here, if you re-read my contributions to the thread i never championed the use of either method just offered the link to a certain sort of heat shrink tubing and then an assumption was made. The tubing would work with many connection methods. So use whichever suits the job and whichever you are capable of

[rustic]

Originally Posted by PLANK

Crimps are better where the job requires crimps but they aren't generally better, a well solder joint will always be stronger and 'Safer' especially in high vibration situations. Crimps are easier/quicker granted but no way more secure than a well made and soldered joint

Thumbs up for self amalgamating tape though - brilliant stuff

Originally Posted by PLANK

same here, if you re-read my contributions to the thread i never championed the use of either method just offered the link to a certain sort of heat shrink tubing and then an assumption was made. The tubing would work with many connection methods. So use whichever suits the job and whichever you are capable of

Plank, I think your 2nd contribution shown above seems to champion solder joints...

[(RIP) PLANK]

This goes back and forth like a tennis match lol. I get told we are talking about cars not the high voltage applications I suggested. Then we get evidence from the aeroplane industry and the same rule doesn't apply?

I spend time ina min dealer workshop for a company nthat supplies Citroen, Mazda, Volvo, Honda, Chevrolette and others and most wiring uupgrades and repairs are soldered according to manufacturers specs. The world has changed. I could go on but! believe you can use what you have. This thread has gone on many tangents including ' tinning multi strand wire' as evidence against me, where did i advocate that?

I simply added to a thread asking for soldering iron advice with some soldering iron advice.

CRIMPERS ARE FOR TEENAGE GIRLS HAIR LOL


excuse typos replying on Kindle :-)

[rustic]

Originally Posted by PLANK

CRIMPERS ARE FOR TEENAGE GIRLS HAIR LOL
excuse typos replying on Kindle :-)

Yes in the same way, solder is for plumbing...

Anyway, only winding you up Plank.... a bit of banter...


Anyway, I didn't know you could open this site on a Kindle, how do you do that then?

Best regards,
Richard (Rustic)

[christof123]

Well i think books are better than kindles.

Thats it im off.

[(RIP) PLANK]

Originally Posted by rustic

Anyway, I didn't know you could open this site on a Kindle, how do you do that then?

I have a kindle 3g with a keyboard at the bottom, I don't know anything about the ones with no keyboard. But you just search for the site in google and hen add it as a bookmark. It's a bit slow, fine on wifi but when relying on the mobile 3g connection you have to be patient.

But it is very good for reading books and you can't have everything

[(RIP) PLANK]

Originally Posted by rustic

Yes in the same way, solder is for plumbing...

Thinking about it, that is an interesting comparison, these days plumbing is often plastic pipes and push fittings, solder and copper are going out of vogue rather like Cortina's and Crimps . Soldering: in your TV, microwave, DVD, laptops, mobile phone, washing machine . . . endless

Then in your car: stereo, maf, ecu,... not even going to bother thinking of a huge list.

The point is there are literally millions of soldered joints in all our homes and cars and relatively few of them ever fail, they are often under extreme vibration, temperature fluctuations and even damp conditions. While the amount of crimp fitting as relatively few, less than a dozen?

I rest my case, your honour