Bandit 600 1998 problem

kitchenman · 15-10-2015, 22:04

Hi, anyone out there know about Bandits, mine has what I think it a choke problem
My bandit ran different to others round here on choke, slowly dies like it was flooded but others of a similar age rev around 4K
Now the weather is cold it will not run at all, starts coughs a bit then stops, get a bit better every time as it get warmer

It has been suggested it is a spark problem plugs were fitted new when I bought it 500 miles ago in May
The spark looks feeble but I only have car sparks to compare with, all 4 sparks are similar so unlikely to be both coils unwell
Spark will stretch out to about 6mm or so

Carbs were stripped and jets cleaned to get it started in May, it had not run for ten years and carbs were well varnished and all main jets clogged.

I started Ok in May and ran well BUT as the weather got colder it became hard to start, but was AOK when warmed up

HELP

ps I may try warming the head with electric blow gun to prove it is temperature related but will wait for a reply first.

macabethiel · 16-10-2015, 06:41

Assuming you have correct float levels and re-built the carbs correctly I would suspect an air leak on the inlet side this would lead to lean mixture and would improve when hot as expansion would patially plug the air leak.

Make sure the fuel tank and fuel lines tap etc are free of the gum formed whilst fuel stood in the system. Not sure if your bike has a manual on/off tap or is it a vacuum operated tap as was my Yamaha. Might be the fuel is not getting to the carb.

Many years back had a similar problem with a 1200 Opel Kadette that we bought cheap but it ran dead rough it turned out that when my late Father and I were cleaning out the carb we put it back together as it was when we dismantled it.

Many days later after new plugs, points etc I took the carb top off and noticed the float lever seemed an odd shape compared to the workshop manual. We straightened out the lever so it looked right then I put the spring clip in first instead of over the lever and it ran like a dream and the mpg improved substantially.

Not sure how old your bike is but are the various vacuum hoses sound?

Just my thoughts for pointers. If you have spark and fuel all at the correct time it will run OK.

kitchenman · 16-10-2015, 08:03

Thanks for the feed back, the Bandit is 1998
It has a vacuum device on the fuel tap, this works fine, I checked it with the tank off
I have not checked the float levels but as it has only done about 2.5K did not check it
How does the choke work on this type of carb? I grew up with Amal carbs with a butterfly for the choke, this type of bike is a mystery to me.

macabethiel · 16-10-2015, 08:23

I do not know how the choke works on your particular model but most as you have stated either have a butterfly that restricts the air flow or enrichment via another jet. What does the lever appear to operate on the carb unit ? Looking at the Suzuki Forums it appears that the choke is just a fancy way of raising the idle speed at quite high revs until the engine is warm!

http://www.banditforum.co.uk/forum/i...;topic=34582.0

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/a...4112010124.jpg

macabethiel · 16-10-2015, 08:40

Beware of fire risks but I used to have an Aerial Leader that was a pig to start first time from cold. Once engine had run it was okay all day - started just fine then after standing overnight it would be a pig again first thing.

Initially I squirted some neat fuel into the inlet and away it went. I think it had Amal Carbs so eventually I found out that if you held down the carb top pin to flood it it would start instantly.
Trouble was that involved taking the side panel off each morning. Being young I just drilled a hole in the side panel to take a small push rod made from welding wire with some plastic tubing over it. A few trial and error brackets and it was sorted !!

Does your carb have a mixture screw somewhere so you can richen it a tad

macabethiel · 16-10-2015, 09:49

Title: Re: Cold start problems (Bandit 600S)
Post by: banditbarmy on July 10, 2009, 20:52:19 PM
Have you tried using the prime setting on the fuel tap before attempting to start? (eliminating the engine vacuum controlled tap) Sometimes the fuel in the carbs evaporates and it takes a while on cranking for the vacuum controlled tap to allow the fuel to refill. Also opening the throttle doesn't help as that reduces the vacuum effect in the manifold (affecting the fuel tap).

kitchenman · 25-10-2015, 18:48

Thanks for the suggestions guys
I check the carbs and found the floats were well below suggested height by between 2 and 3 mm.
Also found while tank was off that the tap lets by in the run position, almost a full tank leaked out, lucky not to catch fire, it was running down the sideway into the street, a dog end could have cause a bonfire.
The bandit has to be on choke for quite a while, as I have not had a bike for over 30 years I had forgotten how long it takes to warm up
At least the carbs have heaters
The bandit always hesitated but now it just wants to get a move on
Thanks again for all suggestions

macabethiel · 26-10-2015, 10:48

Pleased to hear it's sorted my old Yamaha XJ900 took an age to warm up especially in the winter.
Being shaft drive if I stalled it whilst moving off it would nearly have me off as it is not like a chain drive where you can easily bump start them a low speed stall was like an emergency stop ! lol.

AlexD333 · 26-10-2015, 13:06

I suspect your choke is like my 1998 Xj600S

Cable operated, runs a long cable up behind the back of the carbs.

Look up on your knees with a torch, should be able to see a long mechanism, make sure the arms are all moving the carbs

I just spray the hell out of it there, a cleaner first perhaps, then a lube.

mine is silky smooth after several sprays now, ready for winter, will not be freezing thats for sure!

15-10-2015, 22:04	#1
kitchenman Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Essex Wescliff Vehicle: maverick 1994 2.7 TD Posts: 1,278	Bandit 600 1998 problem Hi, anyone out there know about Bandits, mine has what I think it a choke problem My bandit ran different to others round here on choke, slowly dies like it was flooded but others of a similar age rev around 4K Now the weather is cold it will not run at all, starts coughs a bit then stops, get a bit better every time as it get warmer It has been suggested it is a spark problem plugs were fitted new when I bought it 500 miles ago in May The spark looks feeble but I only have car sparks to compare with, all 4 sparks are similar so unlikely to be both coils unwell Spark will stretch out to about 6mm or so Carbs were stripped and jets cleaned to get it started in May, it had not run for ten years and carbs were well varnished and all main jets clogged. I started Ok in May and ran well BUT as the weather got colder it became hard to start, but was AOK when warmed up HELP ps I may try warming the head with electric blow gun to prove it is temperature related but will wait for a reply first.

16-10-2015, 06:41	#2
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	Weak mixture woes Assuming you have correct float levels and re-built the carbs correctly I would suspect an air leak on the inlet side this would lead to lean mixture and would improve when hot as expansion would patially plug the air leak. Make sure the fuel tank and fuel lines tap etc are free of the gum formed whilst fuel stood in the system. Not sure if your bike has a manual on/off tap or is it a vacuum operated tap as was my Yamaha. Might be the fuel is not getting to the carb. Many years back had a similar problem with a 1200 Opel Kadette that we bought cheap but it ran dead rough it turned out that when my late Father and I were cleaning out the carb we put it back together as it was when we dismantled it. Many days later after new plugs, points etc I took the carb top off and noticed the float lever seemed an odd shape compared to the workshop manual. We straightened out the lever so it looked right then I put the spring clip in first instead of over the lever and it ran like a dream and the mpg improved substantially. Not sure how old your bike is but are the various vacuum hoses sound? Just my thoughts for pointers. If you have spark and fuel all at the correct time it will run OK.

16-10-2015, 08:23	#4
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	Choke mechanism I do not know how the choke works on your particular model but most as you have stated either have a butterfly that restricts the air flow or enrichment via another jet. What does the lever appear to operate on the carb unit ? Looking at the Suzuki Forums it appears that the choke is just a fancy way of raising the idle speed at quite high revs until the engine is warm! http://www.banditforum.co.uk/forum/i...;topic=34582.0 http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/a...4112010124.jpg

16-10-2015, 08:40	#5
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	Extra fuel choke start Beware of fire risks but I used to have an Aerial Leader that was a pig to start first time from cold. Once engine had run it was okay all day - started just fine then after standing overnight it would be a pig again first thing. Initially I squirted some neat fuel into the inlet and away it went. I think it had Amal Carbs so eventually I found out that if you held down the carb top pin to flood it it would start instantly. Trouble was that involved taking the side panel off each morning. Being young I just drilled a hole in the side panel to take a small push rod made from welding wire with some plastic tubing over it. A few trial and error brackets and it was sorted !! Does your carb have a mixture screw somewhere so you can richen it a tad Last edited by macabethiel; 16-10-2015 at 08:41. Reason: addendum

25-10-2015, 18:48	#7
kitchenman Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Essex Wescliff Vehicle: maverick 1994 2.7 TD Posts: 1,278	sorted Thanks for the suggestions guys I check the carbs and found the floats were well below suggested height by between 2 and 3 mm. Also found while tank was off that the tap lets by in the run position, almost a full tank leaked out, lucky not to catch fire, it was running down the sideway into the street, a dog end could have cause a bonfire. The bandit has to be on choke for quite a while, as I have not had a bike for over 30 years I had forgotten how long it takes to warm up At least the carbs have heaters The bandit always hesitated but now it just wants to get a move on Thanks again for all suggestions

16-10-2015, 08:03	#3
kitchenman Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Essex Wescliff Vehicle: maverick 1994 2.7 TD Posts: 1,278	Thanks for the feed back, the Bandit is 1998 It has a vacuum device on the fuel tap, this works fine, I checked it with the tank off I have not checked the float levels but as it has only done about 2.5K did not check it How does the choke work on this type of carb? I grew up with Amal carbs with a butterfly for the choke, this type of bike is a mystery to me.

16-10-2015, 09:49	#6
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	Title: Re: Cold start problems (Bandit 600S) Post by: banditbarmy on July 10, 2009, 20:52:19 PM Have you tried using the prime setting on the fuel tap before attempting to start? (eliminating the engine vacuum controlled tap) Sometimes the fuel in the carbs evaporates and it takes a while on cranking for the vacuum controlled tap to allow the fuel to refill. Also opening the throttle doesn't help as that reduces the vacuum effect in the manifold (affecting the fuel tap).

26-10-2015, 10:48	#8
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	Pleased to hear it's sorted my old Yamaha XJ900 took an age to warm up especially in the winter. Being shaft drive if I stalled it whilst moving off it would nearly have me off as it is not like a chain drive where you can easily bump start them a low speed stall was like an emergency stop ! lol.

26-10-2015, 13:06	#9
AlexD333 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Uk Vehicle: 2004 Terrano 2.7 TDI Posts: 7,847	I suspect your choke is like my 1998 Xj600S Cable operated, runs a long cable up behind the back of the carbs. Look up on your knees with a torch, should be able to see a long mechanism, make sure the arms are all moving the carbs I just spray the hell out of it there, a cleaner first perhaps, then a lube. mine is silky smooth after several sprays now, ready for winter, will not be freezing thats for sure!