How safe is your wireless credit or debit card?

rustic · 02-01-2014, 10:42

I have been researching how to make things more secure at home and in the car.
Basically, any mass produced security item, whether a car door lock, house lock, safe or credit card can be hacked in seconds.

I also found that the new contactless debit card can be hacked, and all the data stolen, without you even knowing it. Cash can be withdrawn etc etc.

These cards are designed for close contact, a few inches from the sensing device, however, if you set up a stronger transmitter, they can be read from several metres. Even a 100 metres ie on Tags for Toll Roads etc
A lap top and emitter, say in a ruck sack, at the entrance to say a fast food outlet, can scan every card entering the building. Taking the details from hundreds of cards per hour.

see http://m.wikihow.com/Keep-RFID-Credit-Cards-Safe

There are other sites, to look at.

So how can we avoid it?
1 don't take these cards out with you, keep them in a metal box at home.
2 wrap them in aluminium, disrupting the rfi field
3 place screens in your wallet
4 buy special liners for your cards, but when you take the card out, it is then vulnerable.
5 locate the chip, which is about 4x4 and dig it out and destroy it

Passports are also vulnerable, data can be stolen too... so wrap these when you travel

.

We have no choice with these debit cards, my last one had it embedded, I didn't ask for it.

Just thought I would bring this to your attention.
When you look at your statement, did you really know what you bought when you were out, try proving that to the bank when small transactions appear.

Walmart, USA are embedding these chips now in clothing and other goods, so they can track the goods around the shop... for stock control and location purposes...

BUT the wearer /owner can be tracked for ever... which shop you go to, how many times you go to the loo, if you were in the vicinity when a crime took place.

So logic says that if you have one of these contact less credit cards, it goes to show, that technology is there to track your every movement...
We know that mobile phones can be tracked, so now passports could be, and people via goods they have bought or credit /debit cards.
Of course the data will only be used for marketing purposes, to check on spending habits... yeaah .... right...

Something to think about...

Take care, be aware...
There are people out there looking to steal your property, and there is very little you can do about it... OR IS THERE?
Watch out, there's a thief about, but this time you can't see them.

Rustic

solarman216 · 02-01-2014, 10:55

Very useful Rustic, thank you, I had heard about this but not having one of theses new fangled cards had not bothered to check it out, I will refuse such cards for as long as I can, Rick

rustic · 02-01-2014, 11:08

Well I just checked my wallet, and both my Barclaycard and one of my debit cards is wireless, so I have stored them back to back, and wrapped them in aluminium foil, just in case.
It reminds me of the film, "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" when they were all sat in their lounge with their heads wrapped in tin foil.

It won't be long before we are chipped at birth, the excuse, sorry reason being, to prevent getting babies mixed up, or setting an alarm if they are removed from a ward. Of course the chip and associated data will be disabled when the baby leaves the hospital. Yeah... right..

Imagine, data being available at the roadside, health issues, driver's licence, medication, no passport when leaving the country.
Identity theft would then involve ... a scalpel

doesn't bear thinking about.

Looking at the cards in detail, I cannot see where the RFID chip is, I can only assume it is embedded in the chip and pin, so it cannot be removed.

As Rick says, can we actually refuse to own one of these new wireless cards, and go back to basic technology?

Rustic

jims-terrano · 02-01-2014, 11:27

Good post Rustic. Problem is anything that is transmitted is vulnerable, the wifi you are using now? a humble baby monitor? the number is endless these days.

You are already being tracked, CCTV, Number Plate Recognition (not just police), your mobile phone again endless. Take a look at the T&C's of mobile phone apps. Internet use blah blah blah. Loyalty cards are a good one too.

Trick is not to make it easy for them.

Big brother's have been watching for quite some time.

briggie · 02-01-2014, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jims-terrano

Good post Rustic. Problem is anything that is transmitted is vulnerable, the wifi you are using now? a humble baby monitor? the number is endless these days.

You are already being tracked, CCTV, Number Plate Recognition (not just police), your mobile phone again endless. Take a look at the T&C's of mobile phone apps. Internet use blah blah blah. Loyalty cards are a good one too.

Trick is not to make it easy for them.

Big brother's have been watching for quite some time.

and listening to us

rustic · 02-01-2014, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by briggie

and listening to us

No we're not...

02-01-2014, 10:42	#1
rustic Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Staffordshire Vehicle: Maverick Mk I 2.7 TD LWB Posts: 7,825	How safe is your wireless credit or debit card? I have been researching how to make things more secure at home and in the car. Basically, any mass produced security item, whether a car door lock, house lock, safe or credit card can be hacked in seconds. I also found that the new contactless debit card can be hacked, and all the data stolen, without you even knowing it. Cash can be withdrawn etc etc. These cards are designed for close contact, a few inches from the sensing device, however, if you set up a stronger transmitter, they can be read from several metres. Even a 100 metres ie on Tags for Toll Roads etc A lap top and emitter, say in a ruck sack, at the entrance to say a fast food outlet, can scan every card entering the building. Taking the details from hundreds of cards per hour. see http://m.wikihow.com/Keep-RFID-Credit-Cards-Safe There are other sites, to look at. So how can we avoid it? 1 don't take these cards out with you, keep them in a metal box at home. 2 wrap them in aluminium, disrupting the rfi field 3 place screens in your wallet 4 buy special liners for your cards, but when you take the card out, it is then vulnerable. 5 locate the chip, which is about 4x4 and dig it out and destroy it Passports are also vulnerable, data can be stolen too... so wrap these when you travel. We have no choice with these debit cards, my last one had it embedded, I didn't ask for it. Just thought I would bring this to your attention. When you look at your statement, did you really know what you bought when you were out, try proving that to the bank when small transactions appear. Walmart, USA are embedding these chips now in clothing and other goods, so they can track the goods around the shop... for stock control and location purposes... BUT the wearer /owner can be tracked for ever... which shop you go to, how many times you go to the loo, if you were in the vicinity when a crime took place. So logic says that if you have one of these contact less credit cards, it goes to show, that technology is there to track your every movement... We know that mobile phones can be tracked, so now passports could be, and people via goods they have bought or credit /debit cards. Of course the data will only be used for marketing purposes, to check on spending habits... yeaah .... right... Something to think about... Take care, be aware... There are people out there looking to steal your property, and there is very little you can do about it... OR IS THERE? Watch out, there's a thief about, but this time you can't see them. Rustic __________________ Ford Maverick GLX 1995 2.7TD LWB in illusion silver, 98k miles. Owned since new, for 22 years. Best car I have ever owned. Just wish I could drive it more.

02-01-2014, 10:55	#2
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,431	Very useful Rustic, thank you, I had heard about this but not having one of theses new fangled cards had not bothered to check it out, I will refuse such cards for as long as I can, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

02-01-2014, 11:08	#3
rustic Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Staffordshire Vehicle: Maverick Mk I 2.7 TD LWB Posts: 7,825	Well I just checked my wallet, and both my Barclaycard and one of my debit cards is wireless, so I have stored them back to back, and wrapped them in aluminium foil, just in case. It reminds me of the film, "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" when they were all sat in their lounge with their heads wrapped in tin foil. It won't be long before we are chipped at birth, the excuse, sorry reason being, to prevent getting babies mixed up, or setting an alarm if they are removed from a ward. Of course the chip and associated data will be disabled when the baby leaves the hospital. Yeah... right.. Imagine, data being available at the roadside, health issues, driver's licence, medication, no passport when leaving the country. Identity theft would then involve ... a scalpel doesn't bear thinking about. Looking at the cards in detail, I cannot see where the RFID chip is, I can only assume it is embedded in the chip and pin, so it cannot be removed. As Rick says, can we actually refuse to own one of these new wireless cards, and go back to basic technology? Rustic __________________ Ford Maverick GLX 1995 2.7TD LWB in illusion silver, 98k miles. Owned since new, for 22 years. Best car I have ever owned. Just wish I could drive it more.

02-01-2014, 11:27	#4
jims-terrano Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: UK Posts: 12,965	Good post Rustic. Problem is anything that is transmitted is vulnerable, the wifi you are using now? a humble baby monitor? the number is endless these days. You are already being tracked, CCTV, Number Plate Recognition (not just police), your mobile phone again endless. Take a look at the T&C's of mobile phone apps. Internet use blah blah blah. Loyalty cards are a good one too. Trick is not to make it easy for them. Big brother's have been watching for quite some time.