Update on rear brake binding ???

John B · 24-10-2013, 19:44

Right, I've change the cylinder and a new set of springs, wheel turns freely with it all adjusted up so then took for a spin and drum is still getting hot. Back home I decided to clamp the flexy brake hose and release the pressure from the bleed nipple on cylinder so basically the hydralic side of the brake is disabled but the drum is still getting hot so am I looking at a bad drum or wheel bearing ??? But what I don't understand is when the car is up in the air it's fine and will a bearing really make the drum too hot to touch after only 3 or 4 mile drive ?

Kishada · 24-10-2013, 20:18

Funny you should mention wheel bearing, I was starting to ponder that.
I would expect you could feel play if it was that bad.
The rear wheels are tough to turn so detecting a roughness or whine in the bearing spinning the wheel by hand would be very difficult. Can you hear any whine on a roadtest?
Have you checked for play with the wheel on the ground without it jacked eg grab the wheel at the top and push/pull?

Have you also run the brake with the handbrake cable disconnected from the shoe lever just to make sure?

Also is there any lip of rust on the edge of the drum that you need to fight to remove/install the drum?

John B · 24-10-2013, 20:52

Hi, I don't thing it's a wheel bearing as it's too much heat at verry little distance and no play at all in wheel so thinking about it that drum got very hot a few months ago due to me over tightening the handbrake cable so I think the drum is to blame. Can I swap them side to side to try that ? Cheers. John

Sweety · 24-10-2013, 21:11

You could swap the drums over & see if the the drum is getting hot on the other side if it is then it's prob the drum but if it doesn't & the same side is still getting hot then i'd be looking at the wheel bearing

John B · 24-10-2013, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweety

You could swap the drums over & see if the the drum is getting hot on the other side if it is then it's prob the drum but if it doesn't & the same side is still getting hot then i'd be looking at the wheel bearing

Is that a big job mate ?

Sweety · 24-10-2013, 21:33

Take both rear wheels off then the drums & swap them over

no idea on the wheel bearings as never had to do one touch wood

John B · 24-10-2013, 21:39

Lol I ment the bearing haha

solarman216 · 24-10-2013, 22:19

4 mile drive with bad bearing will not make the drum hot, shoes binding on drum will, so why? you have changed cylinder, HB has been ruled out, never seen a warped drum but possible, so swap it side to side if it moves with the drum then so be it but have my doubts, Rick

John B · 24-10-2013, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarman216

4 mile drive with bad bearing will not make the drum hot, shoes binding on drum will, so why? you have changed cylinder, HB has been ruled out, never seen a warped drum but possible, so swap it side to side if it moves with the drum then so be it but have my doubts, Rick

Shoes are not touching drum when up in the air it only starts binding when the car is driving so I'm thinking the auto adjusters are doing there job and the drum is warped so when the shoes make contact with the warped part of the drum this is causing the heat ??

solarman216 · 24-10-2013, 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by John B

Shoes are not touching drum when up in the air it only starts binding when the car is driving so I'm thinking the auto adjusters are doing there job and the drum is warped so when the shoes make contact with the warped part of the drum this is causing the heat ??

if you have auto adjusters that work you will be the first, Rick

Lazy-Ferret · 24-10-2013, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by John B

Shoes are not touching drum when up in the air it only starts binding when the car is driving so I'm thinking the auto adjusters are doing there job and the drum is warped so when the shoes make contact with the warped part of the drum this is causing the heat ??

If the auto adjusters are working, yours is probably the only T2 ever made where they do...

John B · 24-10-2013, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy-Ferret

If the auto adjusters are working, yours is probably the only T2 ever made where they do...

Oh right, it's like that is it

Lazy-Ferret · 24-10-2013, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by John B

Oh right, it's like that is it

They are a terrible design, I think they sort of work sometimes, but they take an age, and I would be surprised if they did it in 3 to 4 miles.

When you took the drum back off, was it tight, as if it had self adjusted to that level, I would have thought you would have had a nightmare getting the drum off.

John B · 25-10-2013, 09:24

I did take the drum off and get a helper to gently push the brake pedal and the shoes came out and I could see the self adjusters work but if it works with the drum on is another matter. When I remove the drum it always comes off easy, and I've also taken the lip of the edge so that helps a lot. I'm going to swap the drums over today and try that.

puddle hoppers inc. · 25-10-2013, 15:35

good luck! i know on the old air cooled vws this is a problem, but maybe due to the fact most parts were chinese ? check the metal sides to the shoes for bright,clean metal as this could indicate a rub point(on the sides where it touches back plate and on the drum side.

24-10-2013, 19:44	#1
John B Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Wales with the sheep Vehicle: Terrano 2004 2.7 Tdi lwb Posts: 550	Update on rear brake binding ??? Right, I've change the cylinder and a new set of springs, wheel turns freely with it all adjusted up so then took for a spin and drum is still getting hot. Back home I decided to clamp the flexy brake hose and release the pressure from the bleed nipple on cylinder so basically the hydralic side of the brake is disabled but the drum is still getting hot so am I looking at a bad drum or wheel bearing ??? But what I don't understand is when the car is up in the air it's fine and will a bearing really make the drum too hot to touch after only 3 or 4 mile drive ?

24-10-2013, 22:19	#8
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,416	4 mile drive with bad bearing will not make the drum hot, shoes binding on drum will, so why? you have changed cylinder, HB has been ruled out, never seen a warped drum but possible, so swap it side to side if it moves with the drum then so be it but have my doubts, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

24-10-2013, 20:18	#2
Kishada Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: West Lothian, Scotland Vehicle: Terrano II Posts: 249	Funny you should mention wheel bearing, I was starting to ponder that. I would expect you could feel play if it was that bad. The rear wheels are tough to turn so detecting a roughness or whine in the bearing spinning the wheel by hand would be very difficult. Can you hear any whine on a roadtest? Have you checked for play with the wheel on the ground without it jacked eg grab the wheel at the top and push/pull? Have you also run the brake with the handbrake cable disconnected from the shoe lever just to make sure? Also is there any lip of rust on the edge of the drum that you need to fight to remove/install the drum?

24-10-2013, 20:52	#3
John B Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Wales with the sheep Vehicle: Terrano 2004 2.7 Tdi lwb Posts: 550	Hi, I don't thing it's a wheel bearing as it's too much heat at verry little distance and no play at all in wheel so thinking about it that drum got very hot a few months ago due to me over tightening the handbrake cable so I think the drum is to blame. Can I swap them side to side to try that ? Cheers. John

24-10-2013, 21:11	#4
Sweety Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Northumberland Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDI SE LWB Posts: 3,604	You could swap the drums over & see if the the drum is getting hot on the other side if it is then it's prob the drum but if it doesn't & the same side is still getting hot then i'd be looking at the wheel bearing

24-10-2013, 21:33	#6
Sweety Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Northumberland Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDI SE LWB Posts: 3,604	Take both rear wheels off then the drums & swap them over no idea on the wheel bearings as never had to do one touch wood

24-10-2013, 21:39	#7
John B Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Wales with the sheep Vehicle: Terrano 2004 2.7 Tdi lwb Posts: 550	Lol I ment the bearing haha

25-10-2013, 09:24	#14
John B Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Wales with the sheep Vehicle: Terrano 2004 2.7 Tdi lwb Posts: 550	I did take the drum off and get a helper to gently push the brake pedal and the shoes came out and I could see the self adjusters work but if it works with the drum on is another matter. When I remove the drum it always comes off easy, and I've also taken the lip of the edge so that helps a lot. I'm going to swap the drums over today and try that.

25-10-2013, 15:35	#15
puddle hoppers inc. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: west midlands Vehicle: terrano se 2.7 Posts: 1,041	good luck! i know on the old air cooled vws this is a problem, but maybe due to the fact most parts were chinese ? check the metal sides to the shoes for bright,clean metal as this could indicate a rub point(on the sides where it touches back plate and on the drum side.