Interesting vegetable oil info/rough running

[rustic]

I heard that the BBC are bringing back Frank Spencer, he is going to become the owner of a Nissan Terrano and he has decided to do all the work on it himself.
Everything he does, in the Frank Spencer way, goes wrong, he does a body lift and his steering wheel comes off in his hand, he removes the air filter, and sprays gravel into the air intake, he ....

A clip from series one...
Ohhh Betty.... the wheel's come off in my hand... The brakes have gone too..ohhhhh..."
Betty is now holding the wheel and says " Frank... I told you to take it to Ricks..."


STOP PRESS.
The BBC have decided not to go with this script, as it sounds too unbelievable that no one would ever follow stories about it, let alone comment on these antics. (clearly haven't visited this forum, have they.).

Instead, they have changed over the story line.... kept Frank Spencer, but instead of a Terrano, have replaced it with a Land Rover.
The first series, 12 episodes, shows how he goes about stopping an oil leak.
Of course, he never achieves this, so clearly leading to a second series and beyond...

This series is sponsored by Castrol.


I hope you and your families, have a great Christmas, and a Happy New Year.
Richard
(Rustic)

[briggie]

[terrano bob]

spot on rustic have a nice one mate

[AlexD333]

Lol you guys crack me up

Rustic you are amazing, merry Christmas buddy

In regards to veggie throwing up the eml light yes, I must admit, I remember people telling me the fuel filter blocks and then the light comes on, but not due to viscosity.

I have done the perfect test to confirm this on my 500 miles yesterday.

Engine light on yesterday, once filled up with 30 litres of diesel light did not return and truc. Was able to climb from a steady 50/60 to 70/85mph

I can only imagine that the pump, filter and injectors can not cope with the viscosity of it as quick as the truck requires to drink it.

This meaning that the engine is effectively suffering from fuel starvation, caused by the fuel being too cold. Once thinned with another fuel or additive it remedies itself. Or alternatively heating up the fuel lines which in turn would give the false perception that it is summer time allowing the fuel to pass much more freely.

So I have learnt a lot about veggie and still much more to learn.

One more thing nobody seems to know the answer to what actually kills the pump when using veggie? The motor inside must die? (If there is one)

[davenclaire]

its not svo that kills it but poorly filterd wvo and or badly made bio. i bought a scrap pump off the bay to practise on before resealing mine i found white solids all over the internals

[rayf3262]

Been giving some thought as to why SVO appears to induce a number one injector NLS fault code....

There are two types of number one injector needle lift sensors fitted, Zexel and Bosch. The Zexel part has a piezo crystal type and the Bosch has an inductive coil sensor.
Both of these perform the same basic function, to provide an electric pulse to inform the ECU that number one injector pintle has actually opened.
In both of these injector types the mechanical action that generates this pulse is hydraulically coupled to the piezo or coil sensor.
Now, if the hydraulic medium is not diesel, but somewhat more viscous veggie oil, I believe this process could possibly be compromised giving rise to a number one injector NLS fault code.
I would also expect the dynamic response of the two sensor types to be somewhat different, which may go someway to explaining why some engines are happy on relatively high levels of SVO/WVO and others not.

So a question for SVO users is do you have a Bosch or Zexel setup?

[Sweety]

Originally Posted by rayf3262

Been giving some thought as to why SVO appears to induce a number one injector NLS fault code....

There are two types of number one injector needle lift sensors fitted, Zexel and Bosch. The Zexel part has a piezo crystal type and the Bosch has an inductive coil sensor.
Both of these perform the same basic function, to provide an electric pulse to inform the ECU that number one injector pintle has actually opened.
In both of these injector types the mechanical action that generates this pulse is hydraulically coupled to the piezo or coil sensor.
Now, if the hydraulic medium is not diesel, but somewhat more viscous veggie oil, I believe this process could possibly be compromised giving rise to a number one injector NLS fault code.
I would also expect the dynamic response of the two sensor types to be somewhat different, which may go someway to explaining why some engines are happy on relatively high levels of SVO/WVO and others not.

So a question for SVO users is do you have a Bosch or Zexel setup?

Great info Ray as I didn't know what was inside No1 injector & can see where your coming from with this I know Alex has a Bosch set up

[supergnome]

Rustic.....Spot on, best yet. Good job Alex is thick skinned.

[rayf3262]

Here's a little more of the theory/speculation.....
if you move a ferrous lump through a coil quickly, then viewed on an oscilloscope you will see a pulse with a good amplitude and fast rise time.
Conversely, if you move the same mass more slowly you will observe a much lower amplitude and slower rise time.
An effect I guess that could be induced by things moving far less quickly or damped in a more viscous fuel.....

[rustic]

Originally Posted by supergnome

Rustic.....Spot on, best yet. Good job Alex is thick skinned.

I think he knows I mean all this in good humour, behind it, is a safety message, from day one when I caught him undersealing his truck supported only by a trolley jack... That day I became his "Uncle" more of a "guardian", to make sure no harm comes to him or his family, or anyone else around him.

I think Alex is a great guy, I feel better that he is taking on more professional help.

I said to Alex early on, that he needed professional help lol...

[AlexD333]

Originally Posted by rayf3262

Here's a little more of the theory/speculation.....
if you move a ferrous lump through a coil quickly, then viewed on an oscilloscope you will see a pulse with a good amplitude and fast rise time.
Conversely, if you move the same mass more slowly you will observe a much lower amplitude and slower rise time.
An effect I guess that could be induced by things moving far less quickly or damped in a more viscous fuel.....

I'm loving this, as of the last several days I have experienced this first hand (Bosch)

Rick has proposed a few ideas for heating methods for the oil, once hopefully both fitted I will then plan to run high veg mix if not neat, and again test the symptoms as I am certainly used to them, if this indeed cures the fault then yes, the viscosity will be to blame for no1 injector fault (code 21) for us mortals

I'm glad is thread has started, it's full of very cover ideas and information!

And yes I a. Always up for learning off you chaps on here, learn from others mistakes not my own (hopefully) .... Says the guy who smashed his roof lamp lens yesterday

[Sweety]

Originally Posted by AlexD333

.... Says the guy who smashed his roof lamp lens yesterday

And I bet you only tried to wash it in the dish washer

[AlexD333]

Originally Posted by Sweety

And I bet you only tried to wash it in the dish washer

Complete noobage I'm afriad, blown bulb, me being "efficient" I thought id remove it to check the bulb, removed cover and put Lens on roof, slid off down screen and down bonnet and onto floor... It was at that moment I realised it was glass

[Lazy-Ferret]

Originally Posted by rayf3262

Been giving some thought as to why SVO appears to induce a number one injector NLS fault code....

There are two types of number one injector needle lift sensors fitted, Zexel and Bosch. The Zexel part has a piezo crystal type and the Bosch has an inductive coil sensor.
Both of these perform the same basic function, to provide an electric pulse to inform the ECU that number one injector pintle has actually opened.
In both of these injector types the mechanical action that generates this pulse is hydraulically coupled to the piezo or coil sensor.
Now, if the hydraulic medium is not diesel, but somewhat more viscous veggie oil, I believe this process could possibly be compromised giving rise to a number one injector NLS fault code.
I would also expect the dynamic response of the two sensor types to be somewhat different, which may go someway to explaining why some engines are happy on relatively high levels of SVO/WVO and others not.

So a question for SVO users is do you have a Bosch or Zexel setup?

Interesting and very plausible hypothesis there Ray... Now, how do I work out which pump I have?

[rayf3262]

Originally Posted by Lazy-Ferret

Interesting and very plausible hypothesis there Ray... Now, how do I work out which pump I have?

I believe it should be as simple as:
Bosch MAF (5 pin connector (4wires)) = BOSCH
Hitachi MAF (3 wires) = ZEXEL