Update on rear brake binding ??? - Page 2

John B · 25-10-2013, 16:54

Hi again today I swaped the drums over and it's still getting hot and I didn't even adjust the handbrake up so it looks like I'm going to have to torch the dam thing

. Could it be the shoes as like I said I did get that side very hot to the point I could smell burning a few weeks back because of the sticking handbrake.

puddle hoppers inc. · 25-10-2013, 17:05

no, i would have thought burning the surface of the drums would create a glaze which would have the opposite effect ie inefficient braking. scratching me head now bud

your other rear brake is working isnt it? and this hot brake isnt doing all the work/masking trouble that could be whats already suggested?

John B · 25-10-2013, 18:12

The other side is fine, I drove for about 2 miles after I swaped the drums and I didn't even use the brake and the drum is still getting warm. I did use the brake a little to come down my drive. Shoes can most probably warp can they

.

rustic · 25-10-2013, 18:33

Since you are desperate, I have been racking my brains... In the old days, they used to chamfer the leading edges of brake shoes, ie file a 45 degree angle across the width on the leading edges. But Wear a mask!

I wonder why?
Was this to prevent the shoe binding and putting the brake on, and so heating up?

Just a thought...

Was there another reason...?

Sounds logical to me.

Also check the brake lining is securely attached to the shoe, it has been known for these to become detached.

Also, are you sure you have the right shoes, there are two versions, one slightly wider than the other, so compare each side.

That's my brain overworked for this weekend.

Rustic

puddle hoppers inc. · 25-10-2013, 19:08

over width shoes would surely show up as bright metal tho? its a tough one. last chance from me, have you tried bleeding the brake on that corner? maybe a bit of shite is blocking the return of the fluid? try bleeding that corner but totally remove the nip b4 the down stroke to give a wider bore? i know, sounds outlandish but i reckon youve ckecked the basics now...

macabethiel · 25-10-2013, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by John B

Right, I've change the cylinder and a new set of springs, wheel turns freely with it all adjusted up so then took for a spin and drum is still getting hot. Back home I decided to clamp the flexy brake hose and release the pressure from the bleed nipple on cylinder so basically the hydralic side of the brake is disabled but the drum is still getting hot so am I looking at a bad drum or wheel bearing ??? But what I don't understand is when the car is up in the air it's fine and will a bearing really make the drum too hot to touch after only 3 or 4 mile drive ?

Its a daft question but how hot is your hot ? Are you talking hot brake drums with smelly hot brake shoes or just hot to the touch ?

Can't see that distorted drums are anything to do with it.
If you have no binding on the drum when its off the ground and you rotate it by hand I can't see the adjuster causing an oval drum to bind they are not that good.

Has this just come on out of the blue or has something been done to this hub?

If the bearing was overheating you would normally hear it and feel it when you jack it off the ground and rotate the wheel.
Has someone over tightened the bearing nut ?
Not sure on yours if its an adjustable bearing with a split pin or a pre-set torque with a collapsable spacer ?

elty001 · 25-10-2013, 19:18

Had a similar issue on my old terrano and it turned out to be a knackered hand brake cable.
It was jamming up but not all the time.sometimes if would release and some times it wouldn't.
It's a bit of a head scratcher this one

John B · 25-10-2013, 20:16

Thanks for your help everyone, I've completely disconnect the hydralic side of things and it still does it. The shoes were put on in April this year and shortly after it got hot. The reason why this has all come to light is because the handbrake was binding so I striped it down and added a spring from the arm on the shoe to the shoe itself to return the handbrake arm. The handbrake is working fine and I don't think it's the cable as the drum gets hot even with the handrake completely slack. The shoes are made by mintex and I noticed that the lining on the two shoes are a different thickness. On both sides the shoe with the thickest lining is facing forwards.

John B · 25-10-2013, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by macabethiel

Its a daft question but how hot is your hot ? Are you talking hot brake drums with smelly hot brake shoes or just hot to the touch ?

Can't see that distorted drums are anything to do with it.
If you have no binding on the drum when its off the ground and you rotate it by hand I can't see the adjuster causing an oval drum to bind they are not that good.

Has this just come on out of the blue or has something been done to this hub?

If the bearing was overheating you would normally hear it and feel it when you jack it off the ground and rotate the wheel.
Has someone over tightened the bearing nut ?
Not sure on yours if its an adjustable bearing with a split pin or a pre-set torque with a collapsable spacer ?

It's getting hot so that the brakes start to bind, to the point you can feel it stop the car on its own when in traffic etc

macabethiel · 26-10-2013, 12:46

Clutching at straws but suspect wrong brake linings.

spautoparts · 26-10-2013, 12:59

Had the same problem with my T2. Turned out to be a seized handbrake cable. Changed it and the problem went away

John B · 26-10-2013, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by macabethiel

Clutching at straws but suspect wrong brake linings.

Is there more than one type then mate?

micktheshed · 26-10-2013, 16:50

Just a thought: are your drums way oversize through wear as this can cause digging-in of the leading shoe which may then stick on?
Suggest you also chamfer the leading edge of both (all) shoes as this can relieve the above problem.
Just to clarify if the shoes are sticking on: when you come to a halt can the car be pushed forward or backward, if not does it free-up after being driven a short distance in reverse WITHOUT applying the brakes (this may un-stick them)?
If it's def. not the cable I would then suspect hyd. lock somewhere, sticking adjuster or the wheel bearing.

Clutching at straws here, but are the shoes free to move on the backplate? Try lightly greasing all the contact points with copper grease. Are you certain that the shoes are fitted exactly as they should be? Get someone else to check if pos. it's a silly point but everything needs to be eliminated ....& we are all getting so desperate on here!

tobias · 26-10-2013, 17:16

Change the brake piston in hub it's sticking open when braking hyd lock???

25-10-2013, 18:33	#19
rustic Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Staffordshire Vehicle: Maverick Mk I 2.7 TD LWB Posts: 7,825	Since you are desperate, I have been racking my brains... In the old days, they used to chamfer the leading edges of brake shoes, ie file a 45 degree angle across the width on the leading edges. But Wear a mask! I wonder why? Was this to prevent the shoe binding and putting the brake on, and so heating up? Just a thought... Was there another reason...? Sounds logical to me. Also check the brake lining is securely attached to the shoe, it has been known for these to become detached. Also, are you sure you have the right shoes, there are two versions, one slightly wider than the other, so compare each side. That's my brain overworked for this weekend. Rustic __________________ Ford Maverick GLX 1995 2.7TD LWB in illusion silver, 98k miles. Owned since new, for 22 years. Best car I have ever owned. Just wish I could drive it more.

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25-10-2013, 16:54	#16
John B Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Wales with the sheep Vehicle: Terrano 2004 2.7 Tdi lwb Posts: 550	Hi again today I swaped the drums over and it's still getting hot and I didn't even adjust the handbrake up so it looks like I'm going to have to torch the dam thing . Could it be the shoes as like I said I did get that side very hot to the point I could smell burning a few weeks back because of the sticking handbrake.

25-10-2013, 17:05	#17
puddle hoppers inc. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: west midlands Vehicle: terrano se 2.7 Posts: 1,041	no, i would have thought burning the surface of the drums would create a glaze which would have the opposite effect ie inefficient braking. scratching me head now bud your other rear brake is working isnt it? and this hot brake isnt doing all the work/masking trouble that could be whats already suggested?

25-10-2013, 18:12	#18
John B Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Wales with the sheep Vehicle: Terrano 2004 2.7 Tdi lwb Posts: 550	The other side is fine, I drove for about 2 miles after I swaped the drums and I didn't even use the brake and the drum is still getting warm. I did use the brake a little to come down my drive. Shoes can most probably warp can they .

25-10-2013, 19:08	#20
puddle hoppers inc. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: west midlands Vehicle: terrano se 2.7 Posts: 1,041	over width shoes would surely show up as bright metal tho? its a tough one. last chance from me, have you tried bleeding the brake on that corner? maybe a bit of shite is blocking the return of the fluid? try bleeding that corner but totally remove the nip b4 the down stroke to give a wider bore? i know, sounds outlandish but i reckon youve ckecked the basics now...

25-10-2013, 19:18	#22
elty001 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Aflreton,Derbyshire. Vehicle: 2000se+ 2.7tdi terrano II Posts: 6,830	Had a similar issue on my old terrano and it turned out to be a knackered hand brake cable. It was jamming up but not all the time.sometimes if would release and some times it wouldn't. It's a bit of a head scratcher this one

25-10-2013, 20:16	#23
John B Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Wales with the sheep Vehicle: Terrano 2004 2.7 Tdi lwb Posts: 550	Thanks for your help everyone, I've completely disconnect the hydralic side of things and it still does it. The shoes were put on in April this year and shortly after it got hot. The reason why this has all come to light is because the handbrake was binding so I striped it down and added a spring from the arm on the shoe to the shoe itself to return the handbrake arm. The handbrake is working fine and I don't think it's the cable as the drum gets hot even with the handrake completely slack. The shoes are made by mintex and I noticed that the lining on the two shoes are a different thickness. On both sides the shoe with the thickest lining is facing forwards.

26-10-2013, 12:46	#25
macabethiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Derby Vehicle: Freelander & Jeep GC 3.0 Posts: 4,416	Clutching at straws but suspect wrong brake linings.

26-10-2013, 12:59	#26
spautoparts Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: East Midlands, Nottinghamshire Vehicle: Terrano2.7 TDi SE 2005 Posts: 255	Had the same problem with my T2. Turned out to be a seized handbrake cable. Changed it and the problem went away

26-10-2013, 16:50	#28
micktheshed Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: warwickshire Vehicle: Dec 2004, terrano 3l Auto Posts: 313	Just a thought: are your drums way oversize through wear as this can cause digging-in of the leading shoe which may then stick on? Suggest you also chamfer the leading edge of both (all) shoes as this can relieve the above problem. Just to clarify if the shoes are sticking on: when you come to a halt can the car be pushed forward or backward, if not does it free-up after being driven a short distance in reverse WITHOUT applying the brakes (this may un-stick them)? If it's def. not the cable I would then suspect hyd. lock somewhere, sticking adjuster or the wheel bearing. Clutching at straws here, but are the shoes free to move on the backplate? Try lightly greasing all the contact points with copper grease. Are you certain that the shoes are fitted exactly as they should be? Get someone else to check if pos. it's a silly point but everything needs to be eliminated ....& we are all getting so desperate on here!

26-10-2013, 17:16	#29
tobias Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: midlands Vehicle: nissan terrano Posts: 19	Change the brake piston in hub it's sticking open when braking hyd lock???