Oh Dear... My T2 has upset the wife..

Lazy-Ferret · 29-05-2018, 21:32

Looks like she may be ready to sign it's death warrant...

The car has more going wrong, than I have time to fix...

What with the leakoff pipes, then the Fuel pipe issues earlier in the year, then the brake issues, and the Aircon going while on holiday in Wales, the car has been on a short leash....

Today, coming back from Strumpshaw with the caravan on the back, and I lost all power on the M25, with torrential rain, and thunder and lightning going off all around. I managed to get onto the hard shoulder.

I looked for anything obvious, and got soaked, but could not see anything wrong. I got going again, but it was very hit and miss, and after a couple of miles she lost all power again.

I discovered that the water level was low, but the expansion tank was full.... I put a litre of water in to bring the radiator up, and managed to limp to Thurrock.

We filled up with fuel, and I checked the water again, and again there was a gap at the top of the rad... I put another 1/4 litre in and managed to get the car home.

I have no idea what is wrong with her, as the skies have been empting down, we had over 2" of rain in an hour.

So I have been told we will have to move all the holiday/ferret stuff over to Jiggley, and my car is in the dog house until I can convince Suz's the car is worthy again...

Couple of quick questions, regarding the fuel pipes.
I am thinking of ripping them out, and running new, front the back. I have never done a job like this, so will need to buy and learn how to use the tools etc. So, is it worth the hassle of running Copper, or just run a rubber pipe the whole way?
Secondly, I know the feed pipe is 6mm, and the return is 8mm, but is that inside or outside diameter?

Lazy-Ferret · 29-05-2018, 21:38

Ohh.. and what size/thread are the unions?

jims-terrano · 29-05-2018, 21:45

Yes inside diameter.

If running rubber there are no unions to worry about just use jubilee clips.

Have you checked for mayo in the oil cap?

Next would be combustion gases in the expansion bottle, might need a garage to do that.

terranosaurusdoug · 29-05-2018, 21:49

Hiya mate, thats inside diameter, no idea about the threads, I ran rubber from front to back and they just slip over the metel pipes at the tank and pump ends and jubilee on

You don't have a snorkel do you mate? Is th e plastic air intake in between the inner and outer wheel arches still there? What abouf the arch liner? The reason I ask is it sounds to me like the maf getting wet, I've had it a few times (cos I domdaft stuff

) and a lot of the time just turning it off and restarting it or flicking ignition off and on whilst driving sorted it, sometimes temporarily sometimes untill the next daft thing I do

You said torrential rain, check your air filter, see if it is damp and see if there is water or condensation about

solarman216 · 29-05-2018, 21:51

Oh what a day Clive! re the fuel pipes I run plastic ex beer python stuff, so easy to install and as long as it is not near exhaust heat it is fine, cannot understand your motor going down re loss of water, you clearly have a leak but unless that was squirting over some electrics cannot see why that would put you in limp mode, unless of course it was overheating, wait for further comments, Rick

solarman216 · 29-05-2018, 21:53

OH and as Tdoug say check your air filter, missed that one, Rick

Lazy-Ferret · 29-05-2018, 22:17

Cheers Guys...

No mayo, and oil nice and clean...

Since writing this, I have discovered a small water leak behind the top of the water pump, it has left a pink antifreeze stain down the nearside of the engine, so maybe it has been sucking air back in via that. Not sure it would have over heated with just 1 litre missing, but would also explain why there was no pressure when I removed the rad cap.

I do have a snorkel, and it has a landrover style Dome top, so no direct way in for the rain, but I will do a double check of the air filter... good call...

It was not limp mode, it was more slow splutter... it was hit and miss, one moment pulling like a train, then would not go over 1000 rpm. Just like when I had the leak in the fuel pipe before, but not as bad as that was.

I was just reading up and it seems that Copper and Diesel seems to be a no-no according to several sites, and the idea of learning how to flange and bend steel seems a bit daunting, so I think I will have to go flexible all the way. The Beer stuff sounds interesting Rick, is that the white semi stiff stuff you see in beer cellars? The only place I can think of, that the pipe goes near any heat is where it passes along the fire wall, over the back of the engine, would that be OK?

solarman216 · 29-05-2018, 22:44

Yes Clive the beer stuff is good and no problem on a T2, I have loads of it here so if you are interested I will send you a couple of lengths, just use the rubber connectors each end, Rick

Banshee · 30-05-2018, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazy-Ferret

Looks like she may be ready to sign it's death warrant...

The car has more going wrong, than I have time to fix...

What with the leakoff pipes, then the Fuel pipe issues earlier in the year, then the brake issues, and the Aircon going while on holiday in Wales, the car has been on a short leash....

Today, coming back from Strumpshaw with the caravan on the back, and I lost all power on the M25, with torrential rain, and thunder and lightning going off all around. I managed to get onto the hard shoulder.

I looked for anything obvious, and got soaked, but could not see anything wrong. I got going again, but it was very hit and miss, and after a couple of miles she lost all power again.

I discovered that the water level was low, but the expansion tank was full.... I put a litre of water in to bring the radiator up, and managed to limp to Thurrock.

We filled up with fuel, and I checked the water again, and again there was a gap at the top of the rad... I put another 1/4 litre in and managed to get the car home.

I have no idea what is wrong with her, as the skies have been empting down, we had over 2" of rain in an hour.

So I have been told we will have to move all the holiday/ferret stuff over to Jiggley, and my car is in the dog house until I can convince Suz's the car is worthy again...

Couple of quick questions, regarding the fuel pipes.
I am thinking of ripping them out, and running new, front the back. I have never done a job like this, so will need to buy and learn how to use the tools etc. So, is it worth the hassle of running Copper, or just run a rubber pipe the whole way?
Secondly, I know the feed pipe is 6mm, and the return is 8mm, but is that inside or outside diameter?

Crickey Clive!!!!! Sounds like you're having a game of it

That rain and your running issues was no coincidence. I've had exactly those symptoms with mine after totally soaking the MAF in EasyStart before, sounds to me like your snorkel could be letting water in or your airbox isn't sealed as well as you may think it is.

Before you go ripping your fuel lines out, switch the MAF out for another to confirm it's that, I had a spare until recently when I sold it.

If you are going to do the fuel lines anyway then DO NOT use Copper, as already stated, Copper and Diesel don't seem to mix too well and after doing lots of research into it before doing mine I opted for Cupro Nickel or "Kunifer" as it's better known, it doesn't work harden like Copper and less likely to crack or develop splits.

You'll need 8mm and 6mm, It's pointless me giving you my measurements as you'll be needing more than me being a LWB. You'll also benefit from a hand pipe bender, don't be tempted to finger and thumb it like I started to do as you'll cause flat spots thus reducing the ID of the pipes and therefore flow rate.

The problem you may face is finding someone to flare the ends for you, I was being a cheapskate at the time and didn't want to buy the kit so took the pre shaped lines in a van to my local motor factors and they flared 4 ends for about a tenner.

Parts List

6mm Kunifer
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Copper-Ni...wAAOxyLVZRY6Cl

8mm Kunifer
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8MM-OD-x-...EAAOxyaURThb9h

Bending Tool
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-72...EAAOSwCp5au7A2

bbbmmm55 · 30-05-2018, 15:57

Rubber hose is nice and easy. Obviously not as neat as Banshees solid pipes but if your pressed for time you can just drag it through and clip it to the existing fuel pipes.

If you ever chuck any veg oil in the tank regular saej30r6 pipes are rated for veg oil so wont break down.

Lazy-Ferret · 30-05-2018, 22:03

Thanks again guys...

Had a chance to have a look around today, the good news is, not water related, as there was no sign of any in the air filter chamber, and I took the top off the snorkel, and dropped a board on the end, which stalled the engine, so all nice and air tight.

In the daylight, I could see very tiny air bubbles in the inlet pipe to the diesel filter, so definitely air in the fuel. Tried all sorts to find the actual leak location, but nothing obvious.

So, this has raised a couple of extra questions...

I think I will go for flexible pipe, rather than fixed piping, since it will be a lot easier, and to be honest, will probably out last the car now...

"bbbmmm55", thanks for the info, as I do run Veg oil. Rick, will the pipe you have be OK with Veg oil?

In trying to follow the pipe today, it looks like there are actually 2 sections to the pipe, the long one that runs from the tank to the front of the chassis, than there is a length of flexible, linking to a second steel pipe that runs from the O/S inner wing, and across the fire wall. Did you guys change both sections, or just the chassis pipe?

Do I actually need to do both the supply and return pipes, as I can not see any leaks, I am guessing the return is still fine?

jims-terrano · 30-05-2018, 22:20

I replaced the feed pipe only and then ended up changing the return shortly afterwards. There is only a small amount of pressure but there is enough to forca small amount through any weak areas of the return.

solarman216 · 30-05-2018, 23:05

Pipe I have is good for fuel of any kind, the return if not leaking will not be a problem, I can send you a coil to do your motor no problem, Rick

Lazy-Ferret · 08-06-2018, 11:46

The cap arrived, so fingers crossed I can get all back together today.

Had to spend a while cleaning the rust off of it, his cooling system must have been running 50% rust sludge.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Lazy-Ferret · 08-06-2018, 19:30

Finished putting everything back together, and noticed the car was taking an age for the glowplug light to go out, but other than that, it was starting and I got the cooling system bled...

Got in the car to turn it round, and noticed the "Engine light" was on...

Checked the codes and got the following:-

Code 95: Turbo Pressure (33 starts)
Code 21: F/INJ TIMG F/B (27 starts)
Code 13: Coolant Temp Sen (0 starts)

Looked under the bonnet and discovered that the plug on the second temp sender had not pushed in all the way, fixed that, cleared the codes and problem solved...

BUT...

What about the other two codes, anyone got a clue where I should be looking for those?

Code 95: Turbo Pressure (33 starts)
Code 21: F/INJ TIMG F/B (27 starts)

29-05-2018, 21:32	#1
Lazy-Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sevenoaks, Kent Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDi SE Touring Posts: 5,221	Oh Dear... My T2 has upset the wife.. Looks like she may be ready to sign it's death warrant... The car has more going wrong, than I have time to fix... What with the leakoff pipes, then the Fuel pipe issues earlier in the year, then the brake issues, and the Aircon going while on holiday in Wales, the car has been on a short leash.... Today, coming back from Strumpshaw with the caravan on the back, and I lost all power on the M25, with torrential rain, and thunder and lightning going off all around. I managed to get onto the hard shoulder. I looked for anything obvious, and got soaked, but could not see anything wrong. I got going again, but it was very hit and miss, and after a couple of miles she lost all power again. I discovered that the water level was low, but the expansion tank was full.... I put a litre of water in to bring the radiator up, and managed to limp to Thurrock. We filled up with fuel, and I checked the water again, and again there was a gap at the top of the rad... I put another 1/4 litre in and managed to get the car home. I have no idea what is wrong with her, as the skies have been empting down, we had over 2" of rain in an hour. So I have been told we will have to move all the holiday/ferret stuff over to Jiggley, and my car is in the dog house until I can convince Suz's the car is worthy again... Couple of quick questions, regarding the fuel pipes. I am thinking of ripping them out, and running new, front the back. I have never done a job like this, so will need to buy and learn how to use the tools etc. So, is it worth the hassle of running Copper, or just run a rubber pipe the whole way? Secondly, I know the feed pipe is 6mm, and the return is 8mm, but is that inside or outside diameter?

29-05-2018, 21:51	#5
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,431	Oh what a day Clive! re the fuel pipes I run plastic ex beer python stuff, so easy to install and as long as it is not near exhaust heat it is fine, cannot understand your motor going down re loss of water, you clearly have a leak but unless that was squirting over some electrics cannot see why that would put you in limp mode, unless of course it was overheating, wait for further comments, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

29-05-2018, 21:53	#6
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,431	OH and as Tdoug say check your air filter, missed that one, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

29-05-2018, 22:44	#8
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,431	Yes Clive the beer stuff is good and no problem on a T2, I have loads of it here so if you are interested I will send you a couple of lengths, just use the rubber connectors each end, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

30-05-2018, 23:05	#13
solarman216 Off road maniac Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bexhill on Sea Vehicle: Y60 Patrol Me, 3 ltr Mrs Posts: 17,431	Pipe I have is good for fuel of any kind, the return if not leaking will not be a problem, I can send you a coil to do your motor no problem, Rick __________________ Ex banger racer now off road maniac Lokka on the front with manual hubs Diff lock on rear 3 inch SS straight through exhaust Manly winch bumper with 13000 lb winch 10 spike ground anchor, with multiple straps and blocks Super strong body cills capped with scaffold pole 20% stronger springs all round aggressive off road tyres on wheels so just swap. Aim to get stuck and be completely self sufficient in extraction, love getting muddy, 2ft deep is good but rare.

29-05-2018, 21:38	#2
Lazy-Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sevenoaks, Kent Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDi SE Touring Posts: 5,221	Ohh.. and what size/thread are the unions?

29-05-2018, 21:45	#3
jims-terrano Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: UK Posts: 12,965	Yes inside diameter. If running rubber there are no unions to worry about just use jubilee clips. Have you checked for mayo in the oil cap? Next would be combustion gases in the expansion bottle, might need a garage to do that.

29-05-2018, 21:49	#4
terranosaurusdoug Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Yorkshire, J33 M62 Vehicle: 2000 Terrano lwb 2.7TDI Posts: 5,500	Hiya mate, thats inside diameter, no idea about the threads, I ran rubber from front to back and they just slip over the metel pipes at the tank and pump ends and jubilee on You don't have a snorkel do you mate? Is th e plastic air intake in between the inner and outer wheel arches still there? What abouf the arch liner? The reason I ask is it sounds to me like the maf getting wet, I've had it a few times (cos I domdaft stuff ) and a lot of the time just turning it off and restarting it or flicking ignition off and on whilst driving sorted it, sometimes temporarily sometimes untill the next daft thing I do You said torrential rain, check your air filter, see if it is damp and see if there is water or condensation about

29-05-2018, 22:17	#7
Lazy-Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sevenoaks, Kent Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDi SE Touring Posts: 5,221	Cheers Guys... No mayo, and oil nice and clean... Since writing this, I have discovered a small water leak behind the top of the water pump, it has left a pink antifreeze stain down the nearside of the engine, so maybe it has been sucking air back in via that. Not sure it would have over heated with just 1 litre missing, but would also explain why there was no pressure when I removed the rad cap. I do have a snorkel, and it has a landrover style Dome top, so no direct way in for the rain, but I will do a double check of the air filter... good call... It was not limp mode, it was more slow splutter... it was hit and miss, one moment pulling like a train, then would not go over 1000 rpm. Just like when I had the leak in the fuel pipe before, but not as bad as that was. I was just reading up and it seems that Copper and Diesel seems to be a no-no according to several sites, and the idea of learning how to flange and bend steel seems a bit daunting, so I think I will have to go flexible all the way. The Beer stuff sounds interesting Rick, is that the white semi stiff stuff you see in beer cellars? The only place I can think of, that the pipe goes near any heat is where it passes along the fire wall, over the back of the engine, would that be OK?

30-05-2018, 15:57	#10
bbbmmm55 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: MK Vehicle: 96 Maverick. 2.7 Zexel Posts: 366	Rubber hose is nice and easy. Obviously not as neat as Banshees solid pipes but if your pressed for time you can just drag it through and clip it to the existing fuel pipes. If you ever chuck any veg oil in the tank regular saej30r6 pipes are rated for veg oil so wont break down.

30-05-2018, 22:03	#11
Lazy-Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sevenoaks, Kent Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDi SE Touring Posts: 5,221	Thanks again guys... Had a chance to have a look around today, the good news is, not water related, as there was no sign of any in the air filter chamber, and I took the top off the snorkel, and dropped a board on the end, which stalled the engine, so all nice and air tight. In the daylight, I could see very tiny air bubbles in the inlet pipe to the diesel filter, so definitely air in the fuel. Tried all sorts to find the actual leak location, but nothing obvious. So, this has raised a couple of extra questions... I think I will go for flexible pipe, rather than fixed piping, since it will be a lot easier, and to be honest, will probably out last the car now... "bbbmmm55", thanks for the info, as I do run Veg oil. Rick, will the pipe you have be OK with Veg oil? In trying to follow the pipe today, it looks like there are actually 2 sections to the pipe, the long one that runs from the tank to the front of the chassis, than there is a length of flexible, linking to a second steel pipe that runs from the O/S inner wing, and across the fire wall. Did you guys change both sections, or just the chassis pipe? Do I actually need to do both the supply and return pipes, as I can not see any leaks, I am guessing the return is still fine?

30-05-2018, 22:20	#12
jims-terrano Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: UK Posts: 12,965	I replaced the feed pipe only and then ended up changing the return shortly afterwards. There is only a small amount of pressure but there is enough to forca small amount through any weak areas of the return.

08-06-2018, 11:46	#14
Lazy-Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sevenoaks, Kent Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDi SE Touring Posts: 5,221	The cap arrived, so fingers crossed I can get all back together today. Had to spend a while cleaning the rust off of it, his cooling system must have been running 50% rust sludge. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

08-06-2018, 19:30	#15
Lazy-Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sevenoaks, Kent Vehicle: Terrano 2.7TDi SE Touring Posts: 5,221	Finished putting everything back together, and noticed the car was taking an age for the glowplug light to go out, but other than that, it was starting and I got the cooling system bled... Got in the car to turn it round, and noticed the "Engine light" was on... Checked the codes and got the following:- Code 95: Turbo Pressure (33 starts) Code 21: F/INJ TIMG F/B (27 starts) Code 13: Coolant Temp Sen (0 starts) Looked under the bonnet and discovered that the plug on the second temp sender had not pushed in all the way, fixed that, cleared the codes and problem solved... BUT... What about the other two codes, anyone got a clue where I should be looking for those? Code 95: Turbo Pressure (33 starts) Code 21: F/INJ TIMG F/B (27 starts)

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