WARNING.....you may need an LGV licence

[Kamsin]

I just thought id share this. I work as a training officer for a large distribution company and part of my job is keeping the drivers on the right side of the law.

One of the new laws that is now in force is if the vehicle your driving is connected to a trailer (Horse box, flatbed, box) and it goes over 3.5T you will now need an LGV licence to drive it. On top of that due to the EU rules the vehicle will also need a digital tachograph fitted.

If you can prove its for the non profit of the carriage of goods (IE your own caravan) then you are exempt still.

The horse box, even if your moving your own horses is not, this is because they now class any event where a prize is given, is for reward.

The flat bed, (Unless you own the car on it) is now also classed as, for reward.

You cannot even hire a box to move your friend when he moves house as this is something you "Could" be paid for.

I know some people will go to the "www.trailertowing" websites and quote what they see there to me, i dont use them i use VOSA , FTA and the DFT as i need to make sure we run legal at work. If you go to court and use the information you read on a website as a defence, you wont win! Just remember, it said OXO on buses but they did not sell it.

Anyway, as i said some of you will still be ok, some won’t. I suggest you contact VOSA and tell them exactly what you do with it and let them advise you.

Hope this keep points off some of your driving licences.

[Fez_uk]

another thing in this H+S bullshit society and more complicated guff

"Could"

Anyway I can only tow a wheelbarrow so not too fazed.

[melissachels]

thats balls, what idf i only tow my pony to the beach n 2 go out hacking elsewhere cos that is not for reward!! utter madness n more ways 2 get money from folk! i know how to tow n hitch ect but yet i still got pass another test to do so but yet my mam can, who is a bad driver in a car never mind with a trailer on the back!!!

[Kamsin]

I agree with both of you, its all Bollxxxs. But it is the Law.

As long as your not going to a horse show or event then you will still be ok, but if you do then your not. It make no sense as its the same load, but its a way they can get a bit more cash out of you.

At the moment they are hitting horse boxs as they leave show events and motor auction sites for the people that take a trailer. (so they dont drive an uninsured vehicle home). You cant do right for doing wrong some times.

[cncfabs]

Originally Posted by Kamsin

I agree with both of you, its all Bollxxxs. But it is the Law.

As long as your not going to a horse show or event then you will still be ok, but if you do then your not. It make no sense as its the same load, but its a way they can get a bit more cash out of you.

At the moment they are hitting horse boxs as they leave show events and motor auction sites for the people that take a trailer. (so they dont drive an uninsured vehicle home). You cant do right for doing wrong some times.

Just read the dft website it doesnt mention anywhere about lgv license it refers to opperaters license where did you find your info

[Kamsin]

Originally Posted by cncfabs

Just read the dft website it doesnt mention anywhere about lgv license it refers to opperaters license where did you find your info

It comes under the 3.5T car driving licence regulations, as soon as you go over you have to have an lgv licence. Mind you this only applies to new drivers, i should of pointed that out. If you have the entitlement on your licence to drive upto 7.5ton (Grandfarther rights if you passed before 97 i think) your still ok, just need the tachograph.

Really new drivers also have to have a trailer licence added.

[cncfabs]

Originally Posted by Kamsin

I just thought id share this. I work as a training officer for a large distribution company and part of my job is keeping the drivers on the right side of the law.

One of the new laws that is now in force is if the vehicle your driving is connected to a trailer (Horse box, flatbed, box) and it goes over 3.5T you will now need an LGV licence to drive it. On top of that due to the EU rules the vehicle will also need a digital tachograph fitted.

If you can prove its for the non profit of the carriage of goods (IE your own caravan) then you are exempt still.

The horse box, even if your moving your own horses is not, this is because they now class any event where a prize is given, is for reward.

The flat bed, (Unless you own the car on it) is now also classed as, for reward.

You cannot even hire a box to move your friend when he moves house as this is something you "Could" be paid for.

I know some people will go to the "www.trailertowing" websites and quote what they see there to me, i dont use them i use VOSA , FTA and the DFT as i need to make sure we run legal at work. If you go to court and use the information you read on a website as a defence, you wont win! Just remember, it said OXO on buses but they did not sell it.

Anyway, as i said some of you will still be ok, some won’t. I suggest you contact VOSA and tell them exactly what you do with it and let them advise you.

Hope this keep points off some of your driving licences.

Are you saying gtw 3500kg or trailer weight over 3500kg.You have never been able to tow a trailer weighing more than 3500 on car license.I have lgv c+e but std licence used to allow something like 8250 but tacho has always been required if driving for reward

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

Originally Posted by cncfabs

Are you saying gtw 3500kg or trailer weight over 3500kg.You have never been able to tow a trailer weighing more than 3500 on car license.I have lgv c+e but std licence used to allow something like 8250 but tacho has always been required if driving for reward

not technically correct, there are no towing limits on weight on a cat. B

see direct gov site.

however its self defined that such vehicles have a max of 3500kg generally
though some car have had more, my old rrc had 3500 normal and 6000 i think
in tractor mode!, plating had something about not exceeding 18mph

rrc range rover classic.

also seen american pickups that fell in to b not c1 that had tow weight of
around 4000kg....

[cncfabs]

Originally Posted by Thomas-the-Terrano2

not technically correct, there are no towing limits on weight on a cat. B

see direct gov site.

however its self defined that such vehicles have a max of 3500kg generally
though some car have had more, my old rrc had 3500 normal and 6000 i think
in tractor mode!, plating had something about not exceeding 18mph

rrc range rover classic.

also seen american pickups that fell in to b not c1 that had tow weight of
around 4000kg....

Max trailer weight with over run brakes has always been 3500kg

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

perhaps with over run, though there are other methods...

saw section on direct gov other day, can't now, typical, though
did find this in relation to new regs from 1 jan 13

Category BE
If your trailer weighs over 750 kg and the combined trailer and towing vehicle weight is more than 3,500 kg, you’ll need to pass a further test. The trailer you tow must not be heavier than 3,500 kg. This test will be shown on your driving licence as category BE.
Category C1E
To tow a trailer weighing more than 3,500 kg with a car or small vehicle (category B), you’ll need to pass a test for category C1E.


So note there must be some sub 3500kg vehicles with option to tug more.
even though i agree typical car gross trains are based on 3500 mam for trailer.

I'm thinking these mini fifth wheels where in a sense you are not just towing
but also carrying a large nose weight. so trailer weight is over 3500. the trailer
axles carry so much of its weight, the tug the other.

theres also a section saying there are no ratios of weight for BE class, so 85%
is only a recommendation as is usually more than enough for a caravan a flat
bed or tipper trailer is easy to get to say 2800kg for a terrano, or 3500kg for
a patrol.
ironically a vosa leaflet extols the virtues of 85% for all trailer types.

[cncfabs]

Originally Posted by Thomas-the-Terrano2

perhaps with over run, though there are other methods...

saw section on direct gov other day, can't now, typical, though
did find this in relation to new regs from 1 jan 13

Category BE
If your trailer weighs over 750 kg and the combined trailer and towing vehicle weight is more than 3,500 kg, you’ll need to pass a further test. The trailer you tow must not be heavier than 3,500 kg. This test will be shown on your driving licence as category BE.
Category C1E
To tow a trailer weighing more than 3,500 kg with a car or small vehicle (category B), you’ll need to pass a test for category C1E.


So note there must be some sub 3500kg vehicles with option to tug more.
even though i agree typical car gross trains are based on 3500 mam for trailer.

I'm thinking these mini fifth wheels where in a sense you are not just towing
but also carrying a large nose weight. so trailer weight is over 3500. the trailer
axles carry so much of its weight, the tug the other.

theres also a section saying there are no ratios of weight for BE class, so 85%
is only a recommendation as is usually more than enough for a caravan a flat
bed or tipper trailer is easy to get to say 2800kg for a terrano, or 3500kg for
a patrol.
ironically a vosa leaflet extols the virtues of 85% for all trailer types.

I think you will find overrun brakes with auto reverse are the only legal option on car trailers under 3500kg trailers over 3500 fall into completly different catagory and are towed by lgv's

[Adz]

I'm a lorry driver so I can drive or tow anything

This should help

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ons/DG_4022547

[Kamsin]

Originally Posted by Adz

I'm a lorry driver so I can drive or tow anything

This should help

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ons/DG_4022547

As Adz points out that is the correct website to use.

It shows the law states that:-

B (Car licence) can drive Motor vehicles with a MAM of up to 3,500 kg, no more than eight passenger seats, with or without a trailer - weighing no more than 750 kg @ 17 years old.

B (Again car licence) As category B but with a trailer weighing more than 750 kg. The total weight of the vehicle and the trailer together can’t weigh more than 3,500 kg. The weight of the trailer, when fully loaded, can’t weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle

So in English, if your vehicle is 3.5t you can only have a trailer of 750k or less (loaded)

If your trailer is over 750k then the combined weight can not exceed 3.5t and the trailer can not weigh more than the towing vehicle.

So what you have is.

3,500 kilo vehicle + 750 killo trailer = 4,250 Legal MAM
You also have to remember this is plated weight, not weight that is loaded to the towing vehicle. A transit van pulling a horse box could be ilegal on a car licence.

1,800 kilo vehicle + horse box and 2 horses @ 2,000 = 3,800 is ilegal now.
1st because the trailer is heaveyer that the towing vehicle, 2nd because the licence wont cover it and 3rd you will need the o licence (Tachograph).

It gets more confusing as you go on.


So if you have a Terrano 1,800k and a horse box of 1,000k then you have 700k worth of weight you can load into it and be legal.

And like Adz, none of this applies to me as i have an LGV Class 1 licence too. (And grandfarther right as i passed my test in 88 and LGV in 92)

[Kamsin]

Originally Posted by Adz

I'm a lorry driver so I can drive or tow anything

This should help

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ons/DG_4022547

You cant drive a BUS!

(With more than 16 seats or with fare paying passengers)

[762buzz]

its all about them removing the D1 bit off ur standard licence where u could drive 3.5ton upto 7.5 ish ton that is now on a separate test u have to take after ur standard test

its hitting us in ambulance service hard cost new folk a grand to get it