CARAVAN TURNED OVER

[iandouglas]

HI .
Been on holiday to PAIGNTON, with caravan in tow.
good run down 55 to 60 mph, had a good week, plenty of rest.
just the job.
coming back nice and steady plenty of time so 50 mph .
thought i would check fuel figures at both speeds and compare,
hence 50 mph all way home.
got to m42 and was very alarmed to see a 740/60 Volvo and single axle new ish caravan in a hell of a mess ,caravan on its side facing the wrong way still connected to tow car, which was also facing the wrong way and had started to climb the embankment.6 /7 other cars with broken windows due to large stones size of my fist from the hard shoulder, strafing them as outfit spun and rolled .hgv stopped as well as un marked police car .
I DONT KNOW WHAT CAUSED THIS
I THINK EVERYONE GOT OUT OK .
LETS HOPE SO.
SHEILA asked me what could have caused the accident.
bad loading ,blow out ,speed wobble ,someone else , ect.

SPEED MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR ...........

BUT IF DRIVEN A LITTLE SLOWER
COULD THE DRIVER HAVE REACTED IN TIME AND SAVED THE DAY.

NEXT TIME YOUR PUSHING YOUR SPEED UP 55,60,65,70 MPH .
JUST THINK WHERE YOU WOULD RATHER BE .15 MINS LATER OR SAT AT SIDE OF ROAD WITH CARNAGE ALL AROUND................... YOU

IT MADE ME QUITE ILL AS I DROVE PAST .

WISHING YOU ALL A SAFE JURNEY.
RGDS.IANDOUGLAS

[dinky]

Ian A couple of years ago ,comimg from devon on the a42 just before you get to the m1.Doing 50 going up slight incline i lost mine all over in 3 secs but mine stayed in outside lane.Loaded correctly,not speeding,car /van jost serviced prior to the holiday.The van and car lenth were 3 ft longer than the road was wide no damage to front of car or rear of van when it jacknifed.the police that came said its the road surface that causes it ,ripples cause the van to become unstable. Dinky Ian sending you a few pics.

[JonathanM]

I was driving back from Morecambe last saturday, & followed a newisn BMW towing an old Coenihe single axle van, they were doing between 70-80 and cutting from lane 2 to 3 as though the 'van wasn't there! I didn't have my mobile, as they were an accident waiting to happen :twisted: and their anctics of towing in lane 3 just makes it harder for everyone else, including sensible towers like ourselves.

I tow at a steady 2500rpm on the motorways. Translates to an accurate 56 mph (62mph indicated) and returns about 22-24 mpg.

[jace]

i remember maybe topgear or a simlair programme doing a test asto weather it was better to try and pul outve a caravan speed wobble or slow down if i remember wright neither tactic made a difference you would be very lucky to hold onto unit.
hopefully the alko hitches that grip your tow bar have helped reduce turnover acidents!

[frosty]

hi

i am a trucker for a living, and i can't believe some of the idiots towing vans at high speeds especially on motorways, one thing that is alarming is that they try to pass trucks to fast which causes suction between the two vehicles normally resulting in the caravan starting to wobble, i tow a caravan with my T2 but i would not overtake at these speeds, your just asking for trouble, THERES NO RUSH, just think of the family, GETTING THERE SAFE, is better than not getting there at all.
theres an alarming increase in the number of towing accidents just lately.

have a safer journey.

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

sorry guys but more likely got into a snake and braked hard, rathr than ltting rig slow down steadly. equally and wrongly like calarson said on that spook caravan trip they took that you should power out of it.

again this is even more critical if going down hill or a high sider is passing.

in this later situation, move as far to left as safe away from heavy and ease off. DO NOT USE BRAKES. ITs like going off road down hill and panacking keep in gear letting engine perform braking, do not be tempted to even feather brakes as panick motion will lead to full brake application.

richard

further having reread your post jm, speed doesn not cause this sort of thing. as the coupling is in tension. it is the hard braking which then causes over run and ot brakes and thru the compression the tension, think DRAG as in load is lost. And so the unit becomes unstable.

All members her of Caravan Club and even I believe Campoing & Caravan Club should know this already, provided they have read the guide to towing. If not please do so now.

btw the record speed for a caravan is 128 + mph as wwas used to demonstrate the beniefits of TYRON safety bands. which do not allow the tyre to leave the rim in the event a of a blow out.

[JonathanM]

Wasn't so much the speed, although it was excessive, but the manner of the driving- he was trying to drive like a BMW would, cutting in 7 out of traffic, no consideration to others, and likely to cause an accident if not be involved in it himself.

My dad always says- Best to be late for this world rather than too early for the next, :wink:
Having been to devon and back this weekend I noticed alot caravaners, some (most of them) driving politely and carefully where as a small percentage drive way too fast for conditions 8O

[BigG]

I tow my caravan at 55>60 mph which I think is a sensible speed on a dual carrageway or motorway, it keeps up with the hgv's and returns about 25 to the gallon. Any faster and I think its foolish with my wife and son in the car.

[supertaff]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the legal limit for towing any type of trailer even on a motorway set at 60mph ??
Matt.

Limit on motorway/dual cariageways 60mph, but 50mph on single carriageways, these are of course the upper limits.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.htm

[Deleted Member]

hi,I have just towed my van for the first time since getting my terrano,i had a Renault Laguna sports tourer before.The outfit for the terrano was much safer,when i was towing with the Renault i had a snake on going down the M6,i just took my feet of everything and whacked the hazards on,it all came under control thankfully,the Renault was only a 1.8,so there was no chance of me trying to drive out of it!!! When i know i'm going down the Motorways i usualy tighten my Snakebar up Since it's all straight driving,and loosen it off abit when coming onto normal roads!will probibly do the same when going to wales this year!
Have to watch the speed though,my terrano doesn't even know it's there! :smile: :lol:

[Boggert]

Never pulled a caravan, so I cannot give advice, however come the summer months (not so bad this year due to the rain) we are always dealing with the aftermath of people who don't know how to drive while towing.
Had one last year that sticks in my mind, chap over took a lorry on a corner in heavy rain. The lorry driver said he was flying and the chap behind said he was doing 75 when the caravan driver over took the lorry.

Well the caravan jacknifed on the corner in front of the truck, the car came safely to a rest after being slowed down by a couple of signs. The caravan suffered badly under a 40 ton truck! I spend a couple of hours picking up pans, knives, forks, cloths, the remains of plates, mugs. It had been totally obliterated.
Luckily no one hurt! :lol:

[rustic]

Caravan stability is affected by poor loading, we used to have a caravan long ago, pre-mav days, we loaded as much as possible over the axles and low down, when we got to site we then spent 10 minutes replacing everything in the corrrect place. No big deal, we never used a stabiliser, and we towed a 14 foot caravan with a 1700cc Austin Ambassador, never had a sway even on the motorway.
Stabilisers are often mis-used by placing them on un-stable combinations, with people thinking that this will be safe, how wrong they are.
I would be very concerned if you are having to tighten the stabiliser to make things right.
I noticed that a lot of the new caravans have kitchens or bathrooms at the back, placing heavy objects at the rear (&/or high) will affect stability, even a full 5 gallon water carrier at the back will start a sway.
Next time have a look where all your tins are stored, even clothes are very heavy, a full toilet can also affect stability.
Also check the hitch weight, my rule of thumb was if I could just lift it with 1 hand, 50-60 kg it was about right. Also check it on bathroom scales.
Make sure there are no splits in the tyres and they are the right pressure and carry a spare and also a jack, I made a plate to fit the chassis on our caravan so that the standard car jack could be used.
Drive safely to the conditions and be aware that the combination could take twice as long to stop in a straight line and other road users don't always know this, as they overtake you just before that roundabout pulling into your stopping distance.
Braking heavily on a bend or in the wet is asking for a jack-knife.
Most importantly, leave enough time for the journey and take regular breaks, the holiday starts from the moment you lock your front door, so enjoy the journey as this is part of the holiday.
Happy caravanning,
best regards, Rustic

[Deleted Member]

When i say i tighten it,i mean about a millimeter if that,i never brek the speed limits,it's just stupid!! I think the problem i have is that the van is to light,it's only about 750kg to 900kg,14foot long,i load it correctly with all the heavy stuff either over or just infront of the axle,things like tinned foods clothes go in crates on the floor! i have some kitchen scales for the nose weight.

What is the max nose weight for a swan neck on a Terrano 2 2.7 TDi??

Can't find it anywhere,my Laguna was 75kg so i guess it'll be much the same.
When i towed the other day,it was perfect with the Terrano,not a bit of moment,It's good to actually see right through the caravan windows to the back,rather than looking at the storage box!! :lol:

[rustic]

I think the problem i have is that the van is to light,it's only about 750kg to 900kg,14foot long,i load it correctly with all the heavy stuff either over or just infront of the axle,things like tinned foods clothes go in crates on the floor! i have some kitchen scales for the nose weight.

What is the max nose weight for a swan neck on a Terrano 2 2.7 TDi?

Looks as though you are doing everything right, a lightweight caravan could be your problem.
You will find the Terrano a safer tow car not just because of its weight, but also as it is higher will help to slip-stream the caravan.
The hitch weight for a Terrano is 75-100kg

Some differ depending on the towbar type and manufacturer, but are generally in this range.
If you use a stabiliser that grips the ball, be aware that this not only wears the friction pads but also the ball, there is a minimum size for the ball so measue it in several places with a digital vernier.

[jace]

my dad has laguna estate hes had it yrs now ( p reg ) he was told it has a very low nose weight for such big car so 75kg could be a low estimate for a t2

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

the nose weight for a terrano 2 is 100 kg depending on make of bar, it is for mine which a factory approved witter design. caravan club recommend 7% of van's gross weight though again depends on what maker of van says is max for caravan chassis.

[JonathanM]

the noseweight for our van, MTPLM of a fraction under 1200kg works out at around 85 kg, and with an alko stabliser it is pretty stable - better than towing with the wifes Picasso, at any rate. I bought a noseweight guage when new tovanning, and don't check the weight every time, because a weekend away often has the same kit loaded in the same way, so the noseweight should be constant. however I do make more of an effort to check it when driving to the continent & especially on the way home, i have seen it close to the 95kg mark. Strangely the van seems more stable with a heavier noseweight, taking it only 25 miles when empty for an annual service is much scarier!!


Richard, good to see you back on the forum again, lots of posts to catch up with I'm sure!!

[keeny]

allo
ive been towing for 25yrs now but this is my opinion
i ones got into a mess my caravan was all over it was that bad i could see it side of my eyes, saying u slow down thats the worst thind to do, you got to swing into the caravan at the same time u speed up i was straghtend up no prob. if you slow down the swing will get the better of
you, what would happend when riding a bike with no hands slow
you will wobble all over the place, but if you speed up youwill
straghtend up, top gear mention this, no arguments on this
we all human with our differents, like i said this is my opinion
love u all remember VERY VERY SAVE JOURNY..... :smile: 8) :lol: :wink:

[rossco]

Its quite amazing I find that you don't need a license to tow a caravan or trailer on a car but you do for a truck towing a trailer.
Ok the trailer is not motorised but you need a license for just about anything else on the road.

What I'm getting it what you guys are talking about and thats people just not knowing that they have a trailer on the back and what havoc they can create with one.

A simple test would probably cut out half the accidents with trailers.

Over here the limit is 90 kmh with a limit of 95 kmh and then you get the ticket for speeding.

We had a case of the safety chain not attached went down the road and the trailer jumped off the tow bar, killed a child injured another both walking on the footpath.

The drive didn't know about the safety chain and that it had to be attached to the vehicle.

Went up on a manslaughter charge and ended up in prison.
Certainly got the message out until the next time.

[andrewk]

Caravan stability is affected by poor loading, we used to have a caravan long ago, pre-mav days, we loaded as much as possible over the axles and low down, when we got to site we then spent 10 minutes replacing everything in the corrrect place. No big deal, we never used a stabiliser, and we towed a 14 foot caravan with a 1700cc Austin Ambassador, never had a sway even on the motorway.
Stabilisers are often mis-used by placing them on un-stable combinations, with people thinking that this will be safe, how wrong they are.
I would be very concerned if you are having to tighten the stabiliser to make things right.

My worry about stabilisers is that they give many folks an unwarranted belief that they prevent snakes - so they drive faster and hence are less safe rather than more. Frankly, if you feel uncomfortable when towing with a vehicle like a Terrano or other Nissan 4x4 because the outfit feels a bit skittish without a stabiliser then you have a problem to solve - and fitting a stabiliser isn't the solution!!!

You might find this interesting. One significant conclusion is that stabilisers tend to damp small oscillations but not large ones - which is worrying - and that they have little or no effect on the critical speed at which snaking would take place.

See: http://people.bath.ac.uk/en8cjk/Caravan.pdf

Cheers
Andrew

[keeny]

to what roscco said about test 4 towing, no need to there b no diffference
people past their driving test still cause accidents and still no road sence :P :evil: :arrow: