team wales and dadba... we did it

[extreme-4x4]

finally we spent the day off roading and all completed the course.
the trucks all made it . and not a roll of a flip in sight:cool:


dadba and his wife ..... rock:cool:

[extreme-4x4]

sorry zipps no pics yet. my camera is broke

pete makeitfit survived the day without fault (well he bent his nice new bumper)

paul blew a tyre

dadba no problems


and you guessed it. i broke my steering again.... oh and holed the rad, brakes failed half way round (had to temp fix in the rain). and cb died


had a fantastic day.... wife happy again . (not)

[makeitfit]

Me enjoy muchly today:thumbs
Just got home after a strugle, my blasted crank shaft position sensor is now toast:o Never seen so much smoke . Driving along like a battle ship in stealth mode:augie
Extreme's tyres are the mutz nutz period:D
Us mere mortals had to creep roud 2ft boulders when he just drove over them like they weren't there, good boy:thumbs
We a little playing on the way home just to give Dadba a quick taste of team wales activities:sly
We had to distract Linda while Dadba did the naughty route:D
Vids n pics to follow:thumbs

[makeitfit]

On the way to Strata Florida today we came across this bizzare image:o
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/26042009335.jpg
Things you see on road side:lol

[lacroupade]

No idea who that handsome devil is but theres clearly more than one in the village!

[Deleted Member D]

Got home just an hour ago after stopping at Mucideez in Newtown on route.
Brilliant just brilliant and brilliant wkend Gents thankyou from both me and Lynda for your friendly and welcoming hospitality.
Im Knackt now and am off to bed so say & show more 2mora.
Thanks team Wales.

[zippy656]

he thinks hes a tea pot?

On the way to Strata Florida today we came across this bizzare image:o
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv36/daudwpsyn/26042009335.jpg
Things you see on road side:lol

[lacroupade]

I'll scratch yer eyes out Zippy!

Tony/Linda - thanks a lot for coming down, it was really great to meet you and we had a terrific time! Shame about the rain and the usual 'eventful' Team Wales outing - blown tyres, punctured rads, leaking brake calipers etc.. the list of stuff we have to take with us gets longer and longer, but its amazing what a few tie wraps can do!!

We had some entertaining moments with the brummy bikers as well which helped - plenty of pics and vid to come!

Oh and happy birthday Tony - hope we made it a good one mate!

And quick thanks to Nat for the routes he posted - we only had time (between incidents and a few goes at the really nasty bits on Strata!) to do Soar-y-Mynydd, but what a great little route - cost me a tyre but I forgive you! Cheers!

[nejones]

Seems you had a really eventful day but loads of fun too.

Looking forward to seeing the pics and vids.

[zippy656]

I'll scratch yer eyes out Zippy!




Thats so unfair!

[Liam]

dadba and his wife ..... rock:cool:

and Pete makeitfit doesn't rollhttp://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/653.gif

[zippy656]

and Pete makeitfit doesn't rollhttp://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/653.gif

Oh yes he dose..

just not every time he goes out!

[extreme-4x4]

fixed the rad today... hole too big for bars leaks so lucky managed to just squeeze the damaged pipe with some long nose pliers that almost sealed it run it with the bars leaks for an hour and its as good as new

fixed the steering too.... you wont believe this... the steering idler was bent about 20mm
now if you know what the steering idler is, you will know its well tucked up inside and behind some pretty tough chassis etc. so it cant of hit anything and there was no sign of it being hit.
so it must have been heavy breaking on the front wheels as the rears are very poor. one is even blocked off to stop the leaking seal
or the wheels are too big and causing something to bend. but id expect it to bend either left or right if that was the case not straight back 20mm
that's bad , really bad ..... and it was new from milners 2 months ago:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

got pics too

wont buy another, ill only use a Nissan one from the breakers now. i wont pay full whack for new Nissan

so breaks tomorrow then and pauls wife needs a little something too:augie
have your ordered the part paul?

[lacroupade]

not yet Col - just got back from the hospital cos I didn't get any sleep last night - in bloody agony. turns out the doc was wrong, x-rays showed not one rib cracked but two, no wonder it hurts to laugh!!

All that bouncing around yesterday probably didn't help so now I have to sit down for a bit LOL so will go and edit pics now!

[extreme-4x4]

All that bouncing around yesterday probably didn't help

lucky git..... i didnt get no bouncy bouncy:naughty.... cos i broke the truck

all i got was no tea and moaned at

[lacroupade]

lucky git..... i didnt get no bouncy bouncy:naughty.... cos i broke the truck

all i got was no tea and moaned at

Oh very funny! I left half an hour after you did and got moaned at too! :(

anyway time for some piccies....

[lacroupade]

Initial lineup at Strata Florida Abbey, a mile from the start of our second route....

[lacroupade]

The teddy bears picnic....thank goodness dadba was there with his field kitchen facilities or Pete would have lost all his coffee in one hit...

[lacroupade]

Birthday Boy dadba (and Linda) givin' it some!

[lacroupade]

Colin (Extreme) also givin' it some..shortly before his rad burst....shortly before his brake caliper started leaking, which if I recall rightly was shortly before his steering linkage bent...mmmm

[lacroupade]

Extreme puts some tadpoles in his leaking radiator.....

[lacroupade]

The convoy stops to 'powder its nose'...

[lacroupade]

See we're not proud, we let any old truck join in the fun! - Andrews Fronty which acquitted itself brilliantly...

[lacroupade]

Makeitfit checks out his new bumper for waterproofing...note the luxury numberplate. We're not saying he's a tightass but all he did was saw the old long one in half and glue the bits together again..:eek:

[lacroupade]

Extreme in the clag again as Andrew and Tony offer advice (!!)

[lacroupade]

Some of the lads were momentarily tempted by this little diversion where Strata crossed one of many forest tracks, but the 45 degree angle of that slope and the wet scree decided against it....but the brummy bikers had other ideas...

[lacroupade]

...or they did once Makeitifit had convinced them how easy it was! "Just down there son, piece of cake, just like tarmac"...

[lacroupade]

so they did a bit of this..

(yes I forgot the picture!)

[lacroupade]

yes this.....

[lacroupade]

and some of this....

[lacroupade]

until they fell over :lol:lol:lol:lol

[lacroupade]

yes lads, you may well hang your heads in shame...:augie:D

[lacroupade]

should we or shouldn't we?

[lacroupade]

ah what the hell...lets do it :clap:clap

[lacroupade]

err, I think I've changed my mind....HELP!!:doh

[lacroupade]

oh well, once the fronts down the back soon follows!

[lacroupade]

Fronty sez "Gissajob, I can do dat!"

[lacroupade]

Colins flying now - has to show that what went down can indeed come up again! :clap

[lacroupade]

So dadba gives it some, while Linda falls into the footwell and can't climb back on the seat....all say aaahhhh :doh:augie:D:lol:lol

[lacroupade]

...and out she goes....

[lacroupade]

..a last little line up - can't remember where this was :augie

[lacroupade]

Then at Linda's suggestion we all had a little flash and went home!!

[lacroupade]

As the sun went down over Llyn Briane...

[Liam]

Great pics once again. Big round of applause for Team Fun and their story writer and pic taker. Love to go for a meet there sometime.

[Liam]

Looks like Colin is exposing himself to the Welsh countryside,while Fronty has fun.

[lacroupade]

did you notice, he did a lot of standing around didn't he!

[wagpap]

Great pics guys :thumb2

Looks like team Wales really knows how to enjoy itself :clap

only problem i can see is.......no Nav :eek:

it looks like im gunna have to join in sometime and let you guys show me how the Welsh get dirty :naughty

[Deleted Member D]

Fantastic pictures & comments Lacroupade.
Extreme, my son sez your truk is the best looking Terrano/mav (?) he's seen to date.
Wagpap, I know a great camping spot near by down there (now) and Im thinking of popping down again soon if you fancy it ?
Even Lyn sez it was a great outing infact she actually enjoyed the off roading bit too.
Ive put all our pics and some vids on photibuukay lots and lots more vids to come, although my assistant cameraWOMAN forgot to hold the vid cam the right way up.



http://s245.photobucket.com/albums/gg43/dadba/Team%20Wales%20Nissan%204x4OC%20trip/

The Crew
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg43/dadba/Team%20Wales%20Nissan%204x4OC%20trip/wales004.jpg
Colin - Pete - Andy - Lynda - Paul.

[extreme-4x4]

did you notice, he did a lot of standing around didn't he!
i guess some people are just more photogenic :D

[zippy656]

Great pics guys...


learnt two thing from them!

wonderfull

[extreme-4x4]

thanks dadba. it was never intended to be a like it is its just evolved into it. but im well happy with it. trouble is im running out of things to do to it... except keep repairing it. even starting to enjoy that now, its like we know each other now .... is that mad or what ?

so what things you learned then zipps

[zippy656]

LOl i cant say ok i cann

i got more hair than YOU and mine is not as GREY as yours...

heheheh

sorry mate..

[zippy656]

best bit im older.. :augie

[extreme-4x4]

well thanks a bundle... go on rub it in

thats why i sit next to pete. in the hopes some of his rubs off on me...

my kids call him the wizard... cant imagine why, he dont know yet so dont let on

[makeitfit]

OI
Well I've been called much worse:augie
Went to see Wizard years ago in Swansea:cool:Now that was a wierd night:sly
Today my engine is mainly spitting out tadpoles and white smoke:o
Had to stop at some red lights earlier today and the motor was coughing away, so I kept the revs up a bit incase it died again.
When the lights went green I drove off followed by a massive belching cloud of smoke:doh
So spanners at dawn I guess:(

[lacroupade]

So you're officially Roy Wood now :thumbs

Nice pics Tony....I can't stop laughing at this one especially....:lol:lol:lol:lol

"Then suddenly this welsh killer zombie creature lunges at me out of the undergrowth... it was a good job I had me brown trousers on I can tell you"

SORRY LINDA!! couldn't resist it!

[extreme-4x4]

come on guys where's the rest of the pics then

everyone is waiting to see more of..... me me me me me:rolleyes:

[zippy656]

or Linda

[elty001]

:thumb2great pics:thumb2
all trucks looking good in their own right.:clap
some interesting looking lanes down there.

[Deleted Member D]

So you're officially Roy Wood now :thumbs

Nice pics Tony....I can't stop laughing at this one especially....:lol:lol:lol:lol

"Then suddenly this welsh killer zombie creature lunges at me out of the undergrowth... it was a good job I had me brown trousers on I can tell you"

SORRY LINDA!! couldn't resist it!Think that was the point where she decided to do her Tommy Cooper impersonation. "just like that" . She can choose her moments.

Watch this space for more of the vids, Just had a few probs uploading some to the putor. I have now decided to do away with using dvd-R disks, there hopeless when reformatted !
Watch this space for the 'TEAM WALES' movie.

[makeitfit]

Hi dadba, I've still got 5 vids on my phone. PM me your email address and I'll forward them on for your editing :cool:

[Deleted Member D]

:thumb2great pics:thumb2
all trucks looking good in their own right.:clap
some interesting looking lanes down there.
You'de love it elty. Its so wide open too. We''ll have to arrange a trip down again sometime ?

[Deleted Member D]

Hi dadba, I've still got 5 vids on my phone. PM me your email address and I'll forward them on for your editing :cool:
OK no probs makeitfit av sent you my e-mail.

[lacroupade]

Hi dadba, I've still got 5 vids on my phone. PM me your email address and I'll forward them on for your editing :cool:

Not the one with the goat for gods sake Pete.....:eek:

[extreme-4x4]

goat i didnt see the goat...... i saw pete with a sheep though:lol

[lacroupade]

goat i didnt see the goat...... i saw pete with a sheep though:lol

You may well laugh Mr N! But it wasn't Andrew and I who were seen in the middle of nowhere rolling a sheep over onto its back on Sunday were we!:eek:

[extreme-4x4]

oh that reminds me... who was it playing chase the wheel down the mountain


oh happy days....

[lacroupade]

Tell it to the judge is all I'm saying.:naughty

[Deleted Member D]

After a lot of faffing and fiddling about due to poor quality format, namely dvd-ram, which I have now banned from entering my vidcam ever again. Plus losing some good shots.
Here is my finished article.
Hope team Wales enjoys ?
Promise better quality coverage next time.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg43/dadba/2009%204x4%20remix%20diary/th_627c45c7.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/albums/gg43/dadba/2009%204x4%20remix%20diary/?action=view&current=627c45c7.pbr)

[lacroupade]

Great vid Tony! Especially loved the CGI stuff at the end :cool:

[extreme-4x4]

fantastic i loved it too is it possible gor us to pinch / copy pics from your online album

[Deleted Member D]

fantastic i loved it too is it possible gor us to pinch / copy pics from your online albumLacroupade - CGI stuff ???
Extreme 4x4 - No probs at all feel free.

[lacroupade]

Lacroupade - CGI stuff ???
Extreme 4x4 - No probs at all feel free.

The stuff that showed us in the forest when we were really driving down the middle lane of the M4 :naughty

[zippy656]

great vids...

[elty001]

You'de love it elty. Its so wide open too. We''ll have to arrange a trip down again sometime ?

sounds good to me:thumbs
not been to wales for a few years.
great vids and pics:clap:claplooks like you all had a good weekend.

[Lee3197]

Looks like a good day was had by all, thanks for sharing the pics !

Lee. :thumbs

[makeitfit]

I cant find the video!
Am I black listed?
See what happens, you go away for a few days, and it's all gone Pete Tong:lol

[lacroupade]

I cant find the video!
Am I black listed?
See what happens, you go away for a few days, and it's all gone Pete Tong:lol

I wuz just wundering where you wuz. have you been playing capt Pugwash?

[makeitfit]

Aye, aye, just back and resting my trashed hands on a rather tasty merlot:cool:
Pugwashed my way up to 10th overall, so not too bad for first bash of the season:thumbs
My beaten up old mav towed the boat no probs:D

[lacroupade]

Aye, aye, just back and resting my trashed hands on a rather tasty merlot:cool:
Pugwashed my way up to 10th overall, so not too bad for first bash of the season:thumbs
My beaten up old mav towed the boat no probs:D

Nice one me hearty. Enjoy that grape juice!

[Deleted Member D]

Sorry bout that, heres the movie altered slightly.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg43/dadba/2009%204x4%20remix%20diary/th_62ba9ba1.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/albums/gg43/dadba/2009%204x4%20remix%20diary/?action=view&current=62ba9ba1.pbr)

[extreme-4x4]

why the changes the dadba ?

[lacroupade]

why the changes the dadba ?

he didn't get your best side. :lol:lol:lol

[Deleted Member D]

why the changes the dadba ?Not much has altered actually extreme.
Lost a lot of good clips in the upload process but thats sorted for next time now.
What dya reckon any rode any good ??

[extreme-4x4]

well impressed mate:)

[Deleted Member D]

well impressed mate:)Just sent you a pm mate didnt realise you were on.

[Deleted Member S]

There has been a bit of a kick off on an other site regaurding this laning trip with peeps saying that the vid showed you's going off piest again:augie:confused::confused::confused:

[lacroupade]

There has been a bit of a kick off on an other site regaurding this laning trip with peeps saying that the vid showed you's going off piest again:augie:confused::confused::confused:

So I'd heard Sweety. And yes its true. We made some tyre tracks driving at an excessive 25 mph on a gravelled forest road that might have caused problems for the odd 40-tonne lorry or Unimog, not to mention the odd non-existent pedestrian.

As we said the last time this came up, we hear peoples point of view, but these forest tracks are literally miles from civilisation in a remote part of central Wales. No gates were opened to gain access and no life forms were encountered.

So people can moan all they like, but until our low-key activities cause a problem, its a non-event as far as we are concerned. Worst case its a private, civil matter between us and the landowner, which could be either FC or a private timber company....either way it doesn't involve the police or anyone else.

We didn't act irresponsibly at any point, especially as we had a visitor and his wife with us and weren't about to expose them to anything .....in fact bizarrely, with the number of cyclists and motorcylists around, we had to take far more care on the BOATS, stopping or slowing to let them by. And I have to say, in my experience, as often as not its the m/cs that are the most intrusive, noisy, aggressive crowd, often with genuine offroad (as in unlicensed) machines that would be a real problem if they caused someone an injury or worse.

[Deleted Member S]

Would'nt it be better to find out 100% if the tracks are legal to drive first to save any chance getting into a legal battle & this club getting named & dragged into it:confused::confused::confused:

[lacroupade]

Would'nt it be better to find out 100% if the tracks are legal to drive first to save any chance getting into a legal battle & this club getting named & dragged into it:confused::confused::confused:

Sweety - I don't know what you can be confused about?

What legal battle?

The law of trespass is extremely clear and is a simple civil matter between the landowner and the trespasser. If we were ever stopped we would respond politely and leave. End of story.

Having said that, if we were stupid (and I take offence at the implications from other quarters that we are a bunch of f**kwits) we could refuse and the landowner would have to apply for a legal injunction to have us removed - that takes 2-3 weeks, just as when the local authority needs to move travellers on. No police, no S59s, etc.. etc..

This doesn't involve this site any more than a happy-slapping video on youtube for gods sake.

If people see us genuinely behaving dangerously/stupidly, or there is a media campaign as a result, then I for one would accept all criticism; until then, I don't know why we are having this discussion again.

[Deleted Member S]

Well I think your attitude says it all ie your going to do what you like when you like whether the lanes have a ROW or not & it's ok as long as you don't drive dangours/stupid. As for regaurding the club activities like this are'nt helping it's reputation when it's getting named in posts about possiably illegal driving. Why is this being brought up ? well I thought after last time the true facts regaurding ROW would have been checked out. But as you imply I know nothing i'll just shut up as you know it all:augie:augie

[extreme-4x4]

not that i want to take sides, as i think both of you are right
but it basicly comes down to the degree of the law breaking.

for example
your road tax runs out on tuesday you dont have the money till friday ... but you do tax it as soon as you get paid on the friday... now you have knowingly broken the law wednesday and thursday ... and we have all done it

you discover your rear light has blown, so you fix it when you get home or to a service station... but you still knowingly broke the law till you have fixed it


your tyre is just on the limit ar a slight nick in it ... no money again till friday but you do it as soon as you can afford it

now i got stopped the other night for break light not working, i said to the nice copper oh i keep fixing that. it does work give it a tap... he did it worked and he said fine ... have a good look at it when you can. make sure its working ... and said goodbye

now the forrest are policed they do have a copper who polices them in his forrestry commision sponsered landy (endurace bike champion too i beleive). i even sat and chatted to him one sunday morning in macdonnalds
he explained it is illegal and he will issue section 59 if your being a pain in the bum. ie wrecking the place or make him chase you .
but he said if i see you in the forrest, i will ask you to leave. if you make a run for it or i catch you again that day . dont bother i will just park up the landy and get the bike out. i will get you, there is nowhere i cant get to. and you will get a section 59. next time its crushed

but if you leave when politely asked im happy with that, just dont wreck the place.

he said i know whats going on the painfull people will suffer if your just exploring and driving safely i have no problems.
also you might not see me but i have seen you several times and you are on video so i dont even have to catch up with you to send you a section 59.

he's a fair man id say. but then it is different here in wales, they do have a different attitude to life , more relaxed. (and im english so i know what its like on both sides of the border)
what they dont want is distruction or uninsured wrecks bombing around the forrest. or kids nicking cars and burning them up the mountain.

so i do understand sweety's its the law thing but we do only bend the law slightly and we all do that

i remember someone posted a video on here when i first joined
it showed a t2 (maybe white)i beleive going through a river crossing with a big splash. a member from here. i remember the vid cos i said the second attemt was near perfect..... but that video also showed a nice bit of laning where the lane was blocked by a fallen tree one t2 went over the tree and the rest of the party including a purple t2/mav and a 110 landy in green going through the woods a long way around the tree
no im not one for nit picking, but is that illegal not sticking to the lanes and diverting off into the woods.
im not one for naming and shaming as i would have done the same, but these people are the ones who then say we are giving the club a bad name.

so come on guys lets not have one rule for one and not the others.

ive had my wrist slapped for the dohnut thing and i dont do that no more, it wrecks the truck for one thing , but as terra says its not helping the situation with the hickers or greeies.
25 mph down a track that could have easilly been explained to anyone concerned as "sorry wrong turn, we are lost".
is hardly worth falling out over.

especially as if you had broken down up there you wouldnt see another car or walker for hours if at all that day

also has anyone seen the mess the land is left in after logging has been done. its like a war zone. i often go up there when they move out to get loggs myself form all the crap left behind.


so i do understand both side... but we cant all be perfect citizens and not break any law ... just remember ive seen the video's and i bet there are more

[lacroupade]

Well I think your attitude says it all ie your going to do what you like when you like whether the lanes have a ROW or not & it's ok as long as you don't drive dangours/stupid. As for regaurding the club activities like this are'nt helping it's reputation when it's getting named in posts about possiably illegal driving. Why is this being brought up ? well I thought after last time the true facts regaurding ROW would have been checked out. But as you imply I know nothing i'll just shut up as you know it all:augie:augie

Sweety lets just put to things to bed.

Firstly, whatever people like to think, this is NOT a club. It a pay-to-view website. It has no other legal status, so spare me the stuff about reputation.

Secondly, its important to differentiate between two types of route being described here.

If we were to drive a ROW that is not a BOAT (and we don't and haven't) then that attracts bad press. i.e. in the wost case you're driving a thumping great 4x4 up a footpath where a little old lady is walking her poodle. Yes that gets bad press, yes that pees off the public and NO, for the umpteenth time we don't do that or suggest it.

And yes, if we did such a dumb thing and got caught by the police ON THE RIGHT OF WAY then they would ask us to leave, and for persistent behaviour, issue a Section 59 order. And of course we'd be twerps.

But these forest tracks ARE NOT ROWs. They are private property and therefore nothing to do with the police whatever they might think - they cannot issue a S59 on private property. In fact the police have no more power to make you leave or issue a S59 there than if you came and parked in my back garden. If there is a 'forestry officer' as Extreme says, then I question seriously what they told him and their powers and would love to know more about the grounds on which they claim them.....they have none on private property, only on public property or ROWs.

They could give me an S59 for doing donuts on a public road, or on a BOAT, or for merely driving on a ROW that was not open to vehicles. But I could donut to me hearts content in the forest (if I were that stupid) because the only person who could stop me is the landowner with a civil action.

The offence of trespass on private property is a civil matter not a police one.

So lets get this straight.

1. We do not drive on ROWs unless they are BOATs. And when we do, I think we act a hell of a lot more sensibly than I've seen people on other tracks - we drive at reasonable speed, we pull over to let people pass and we don't make a bloody mess.

2. If, hypothetically, we drove on forest tracks, thats nothing to do with ROWs, and since it would be done in the ass-end of nowhere, neither does it interact with members of the public and neither do we drop our driving standards., and as I'm sure you know, for a trespasser to be successfully prosecuted, damage has to be shown to have been caused. On a deeply rutted gravel track that is.....:confused::confused::confused:


I'll say it again, this is not about misuse of ROWs which attracts bad press, but about hypothetical use of remote, private forest tracks which doesn't as far as I am aware.

I bet you flash people that overtake you as well.....

But as I said, this is all nonsense because we behave quietly and the only thing you'll see is the odd picture posted in this private forum...so whats the big deal???

[Deleted Member D]

Looks like someone is trying to stick the boot in before they depart the club if you ask me ?
Some people just cant survive without causing conflict between others can they?
I have made lots of videos over the last year or so of my trips with the intentions of showing others the fun that I've had and can be had.
As soon as there is a slight chance I may have wandered off piste a little, fellow 4x4 enthusiasts take the opportunity to brand me some kind of 'Laning pirate'.
This kind of attitude is making the whole 4x4 thing look quite scary to the beginner surely ?
None of us (I believe) want to cause trouble in any way out on the lanes but all this crap is dividing the 4x4 environment apart. These people have an hidden agenda in my mind. World domination perhaps ? Who knows ?
Why not help each other rather than gloat or slander ?

[lacroupade]

Exactly the point DB....if you drive your 4x4 on a Right of Way that isn't open to vehicles and thats used by other people, usually walkers, you are going to cause trouble one way or another.

But people seem to be confusing a private forest track with a ROW, when they are no such thing. Its absolutely no different to me parking my car at the back of the estate agents when I go shopping - which is why police are powerless to act over clampers. Same principle.

[lacroupade]

IN FACT HERES A LUCID EXPLANATION OF THE SUBJECT, AND I WAS WRONG IN THAT THE POLICE DO HAVE VERY LIMITED POWERS IN VERY SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH DON'T APPLY HERE. REMEMBER THIS APPLIES TO PRIVATE LAND NOT RIGHTS OF WAY.

Apart from a very few examples of local custom and tradition which survive in England's legal system, law which is not contained within a specific Act is known as Common Law. It is built up by the courts and their judgments. This means that, in deciding a particular case, the court must have regard to the principles of law laid down in earlier reported cases on the same or similar points, although the law may be extended or varied if the facts of the particular case are sufficiently different.

In fact, many aspects of the law shown here are also controlled by statute law (which is the other sort of law made by Parliament) but as a general heading, these matters can be grouped together as based on or originating in on common law.

Scottish Common Law is often different from English, sometimes significantly so. The following applies to English law only, and are guidelines only. If you want reliable legal advice ask your solicitor, not some website.

Damage
Anyone damaging anything deliberately and without good reason is committing an offence. This includes plants, trees, and all installations such as fences, signs, or paths. However, see below under theft for a note on picking flowers, fruit, fungi and foliage.

Trespass
As applied to a piece of land open to the public which is not common land, open access land, or a public right of way. This is also one area where the laws of England and Scotland are significantly different. It is against the law to trespass on any land (and inland that includes land covered by water such as rivers or lakes) or in any building. Ignorance of that fact is no defence under this law. The word trespass covers much more than people usually realise. All land in this country belongs to someone. If you go on to land without the owner's permission, you are trespassing unless there is some right of access for the public, or for you specifically (for example if you have acquired a right to pass over the land to reach some land of your own).

Walkers (not trespassers!)Any person can enter a place if the landowners permit it. However, this does not necessarily make a permanent right of access, and unless they have dedicated a bit of land to be permanently open it is within the power of the landowner to ask any person to leave, assuming that person does not have some other lawful reason to be there. The landowner does not have to give a reason. If the person does not go immediately, by the shortest practical route, then they are trespassing. Despite the well known sign ‘trespassers will be prosecuted’, trespass is not a criminal offence and trespassers cannot usually be prosecuted. They can, however, be sued. There is little chance of such a matter ever being so serious as to be worth suing over, and so this rarely happens.

People in a park will often protest (if asked to leave) that it is public land. However the ownership of the land is not relevant. Even if the land is owned by a public body, such as the local council, this does not mean necessarily that they have a right to be on it at all times - they do not. If the place closes at a certain time and a visitor remains after that time, they can then be considered to be trespassing. If a visitor misbehaves at any time and refuses to leave when asked to do so by someone with a right to do so (usually the landowner or a representative) then the visitor could becomes a trespasser because they no longer have the landowner's permission to be there, even if they entered legally. Note: this also gives landowners the absolute right to close off paths (other than rights of way), and areas without notice or explanation.

This law is of little practical use but might be employed when arguing with more reasonable people. It does not apply to people on a public footpath or other right of way, or on open access land. The problem is that if someone is trespassing, they are unlikely to comply with a polite request to leave, and if they then do not, the landowner has little if any further recourse. Section 61 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 allows the senior police officer attending the scene of an incident involving a trespass or nuisance on land to order trespassers to leave the land and to remove their vehicles as soon as reasonably practicable. The power can only be used when there are two or more people there and "are present there with the common purpose of residing there for any period, [and] that reasonable steps have been taken by or on behalf of the occupier to ask them to leave" and either the trespassers have six or more vehicles between them, or they have caused damage to the land or to property on the land or used threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour - or both. So really it's not likely to cover anything other than a major invasion. This power is not often used, but for practical purposes this is the only instance where you might get the police to come and actually remove trespassers from a bit of land.

Sometimes, people go onto private property, such as woodland, which is not apparently fenced off and where the owners do not seem to mind. The fact that there is no fence or no sign saying that the land is private does not mean that people can go there. Wandering on to farmers' fields or other places which are obviously private is clearly trespassing, but so is wandering over land which may not be so clearly private, if the public has no right of access.

It is not normally possible to be a trespasser whilst legitimately on a right of way. However, if the user is not using the right of way as a route to get from one place to another, but using it for some other reason, such as to interfere with the landowner, they can be considered to be a trespasser. A real example of this (before open access land was in existence) concerned a hunt saboteur who was deemed by a court to be a trespasser for shouting and waving flags, whilst on a footpath, on a grouse moor. This important distinction was the purpose for which the person was there. This does not mean that it is always wrong to shout and wave flags on a footpath.

[Deleted Member D]

Nice one lacroupade.
Makes it abit clearer.
Not that that will satisfy some.

[lacroupade]

Nice one lacroupade.
Makes it abit clearer.
Not that that will satisfy some.

good advice for us too come to that! :augie

[Deleted Member S]

Looks like someone is trying to stick the boot in before they depart the club if you ask me ?
Some people just cant survive without causing conflict between others can they?

How did I know you were going to post something like that dadba:augieas for the conflict bit that is def not me:augie but you do have a history of causing conflict.

It was my understanding this site was a club from what members have said over the years & that the site is called the NISSAN4X4OWNERSCLUB:confused::confused::confused:
Well post what you want as I won't be readying this thread any more:augieI do find it strange that peeps can post a load of nothing & nowt is said but if a queation or a debate is raised over something posted that person gets shot down faster than any thing:doh

[lacroupade]

So, Dadba, what have you got to say for yourself you baaaaad boy?

SWEETY - its nothing personal mate, I just get fed up with all this negative crap with no sound basis to it...and if they can kick off so can I! :naughty:thumb2

Re the club thing (cos I guarantee you'll come back and read this you sly fox), folk can call it what you like, but its a pay-to-view website, nothing more....a Maverick/Terrano porn site if you like....and thats not to diss it, just a statement of pure unadulterated fact - sorry to shatter your illusions.

Thats how come it was SOLD by one person to another...ever heard of that happening with a cricket club? Nope, probably not. Maybe I'll take it up with the committee. Ummmm. Oh.

[Terranosaurus]

but that video also showed a nice bit of laning where the lane was blocked by a fallen tree one t2 went over the tree and the rest of the party including a purple t2/mav and a 110 landy in green going through the woods a long way around the tree
no im not one for nit picking, but is that illegal not sticking to the lanes and diverting off into the woods.
im not one for naming and shaming as i would have done the same, but these people are the ones who then say we are giving the club a bad name.

That was me, trip was organised by, Andy also along were Ian D in the white T2, Sharkie was there too, the defender was my sis and bro in law.

Driving around an illegal obstruction is 100% legal providing you take the shortest possible course. Its technically abating an obsatacle, similarly if you come across a locked gate on a ROW you are entitled to cut the lock to gain access past - but must do the minimum damage possible or you could be liable to criminal damge and you must leave the lock and all pieces etc or its theft.

[nejones]

That was me, trip was organised by, Andy also along were Ian D in the white T2, Sharkie was there too, the defender was my sis and bro in law.

Driving around an illegal obstruction is 100% legal providing you take the shortest possible course. Its technically abating an obsatacle, similarly if you come across a locked gate on a ROW you are entitled to cut the lock to gain access past - but must do the minimum damage possible or you could be liable to criminal damge and you must leave the lock and all pieces etc or its theft.

A little more education given there Si.:clap

[lacroupade]

A little more education given there Si.:clap

Not strictly true as you may well be committing trespass as you do so. As you know ROWs are usually legally defined in some way as to their width etc..

I agree with the removal of enough of a blockage to allow safe passage, e.g. cutting a fallen tree, but you might be on a sticky wicket with damaging a locked gate....why do you think the council has to give notice to the landowner for removal first - the only time they will intervene physically without notice is when the obstacle presents an immediate danger to walkers somehow.

reverse away and report the blockage (if its a locked gate as opposed to a bit of wood) would be the preferred route surely.

[nejones]

I'm gonna tell you you're wrong Paul, cause you are.

If Si wants to explain to you why you're wrong then he can but to be honest I cant be bothered anymore to argue points of law.

Bid you all a good farewell.

[lacroupade]

I'm gonna tell you you're wrong Paul, cause you are.

If Si wants to explain to you why you're wrong then he can but to be honest I cant be bothered anymore to argue points of law.

Bid you all a good farewell.

Well with respect Nathan that just evidences the sort of smug arrogance that alienates people in the first place. If you want me to pull up umpteen sources to support my first statement I happily will. Or feel free to Google it to death. Trespass is trespass however you dress it up, but apparently its OK sometimes??? Fraid not - its a common law tort....

And if you are aware of any law that legitimately allows you to physically damage property in a situation that is not threatening by all means post that too? Next you'll be telling me you can break a wheel clamp with impunity?

And we haven't even got on to the eco-friendly subject of all the little frogs that get killed and the pollution thats caused when these dirty, oily trucks wade through a nice clean country stream.

Funny how its one rule for some and another for others....and inconvenient truths often ignored...

[nejones]

Its not smug arrogance, just the truth.

I'm not in the minority, go onto the established 4x4/offroad/greenlane forums and you'll be told the same.

Thats why Dadba's in such a state over this.

He posted on M.C and I along with several others confronted him over the video he posted that he decided to remove the video and try to squirm his way out with pathetic excuses.

I have absolutely no more to say on the subject.

I've tried always to be helpful never obstructive but whats the point.
I wont respond anymore either on the forum or to 'snakes in the grass' pm's.

Bye, bye:)

[Deleted Member D]

How did I know you were going to post something like that dadba:augieas for the conflict bit that is def not me:augie but you do have a history of causing conflict.

It was my understanding this site was a club from what members have said over the years & that the site is called the NISSAN4X4OWNERSCLUB:confused::confused::confused:
Well post what you want as I won't be readying this thread any more:augieI do find it strange that peeps can post a load of nothing & nowt is said but if a queation or a debate is raised over something posted that person gets shot down faster than any thing:doh

You knew Id say something like that cos thats why your posting in this thread.
As for my history, yes it would seem that I dont always meet eye to eye with what others may say etc. But as an old boss of mine once told me in my RAF days. "Simpson your fault is you dont suffer fools likely".
Another fault of mine I have noticed Sweety is, I have this uncanny ability to read people like a book.
Its tough being as unique as me tho.

[lacroupade]

Its not smug arrogance, just the truth. Well heres an extract from Walsall Council website - explain.

Alternatively you may pass around the obstruction, and deviate from the line of the right of way. Although if the land which you are deviating onto is in the ownership of another landowner you may be trespassing.

How do you know who owns what when you drive through their nice little wood....? Hence the standard advice to simply report the obstruction.


I'm not in the minority, go onto the established 4x4/offroad/greenlane forums and you'll be told the same.

Thats why Dadba's in such a state over this.

He posted on M.C and I along with several others confronted him over the video he posted that he decided to remove the video and try to squirm his way out with pathetic excuses.



Jeezus Krist, I'd be in a state too if I was 'confronted' in that way because I committed a simple civil act of trespass on my own recognisance!!

Sorry to sound so disparaging but I hope you all feel extremely proud of yourselves for acting in such an overbearing, patronising manner!

Arrogance doesn't even begin to cover it frankly.

Lets not forget we are the ones getting slagged here, so don't be surprised at the eventual vehemence of the response.

So next time you see a TW thread, no need to read it eh?

[Deleted Member D]

Its not smug arrogance, just the truth.

I'm not in the minority, go onto the established 4x4/offroad/greenlane forums and you'll be told the same.

Thats why Dadba's in such a state over this.

He posted on M.C and I along with several others confronted him over the video he posted that he decided to remove the video and try to squirm his way out with pathetic excuses.

I have absolutely no more to say on the subject.

I've tried always to be helpful never obstructive but whats the point.
I wont respond anymore either on the forum or to 'snakes in the grass' pm's.

Bye, bye:) Im in a state ??????????????
I had fun and posted a video to prove it.
Your in a state by the sounds of it flower.
Ive just read your pm to me and responded too.
Just look at the way things have gone between so called like minded people ?
Pathetic excuses ???? What excuses ?????? Squirm my way out ????? of what ?????????
Ive tried to explain my actions on the vid and this is your response flower.
Is this what is to be accepted Nathan ????????????
People will have ago at me now for having ago at you having a go at me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think this is all a reflection to how we have become in this wonderful nation we call Great Britain. Self rightous hypocrites.
Thanks for your help tho Nathan Im sure none of us dare go there again after all that carry on.

[Paul]

See someone is off their pills again.

[Deleted Member D]

Here comes captain sensible.

[Paul]

Thank you..
(YOU ONLY HAVE 13 MIN'S & COUNTING TO EDIT YOUR LAST POST)

[Deleted Member D]

No thank you for reminding me to take another pill.

[Paul]

No thank you for reminding me to take another pill.
Your welcome..:thumb2 think nothing of it.

[Deleted Member D]

no probs

[lacroupade]

Mind if i have one, i've got a bleedin' headache! :lol

[lacroupade]

Im sure none of us dare go there again after all that carry on.

Dream on! :thumbs:lol:augie:D:thumb2:clap:naughty

[Deleted Member D]

Mind if i have one, i've got a bleedin' headache! :lolIve only got chill pills left P.

[lacroupade]

Ive only got chill pills left P.

works for me.....:beer:popcrn:grouphug

[Deleted Member D]

I think they should come with your membership pack.

[lacroupade]

I think they should come with your membership pack.

and to think i thought Dorne and Lynda's am-dram was out there on its own! LOL

[Deleted Member D]

On this place eh ?

[lacroupade]

On this place eh ?

LMAO but easily worth a tenner! :thumbs

[makeitfit]

Gordon bloody bennet, war and peace or what:o
I spotted a new post on good old TW and and now my eyes hurt:cool:
Some peops round here need some of those dadba pills PDQ if you ask me:rolleyes:
One things for sure , TW threads are about the most read threads on here:thumbs
So for all you "watchers" , don't worry there's only a few weeks before our next outing:lol
I've been working on some particularly FUN things to do:naughty All of which will be properly health n safety checked, ignored and POSTED HERE in glorious "Wish you were here" surround sound wide screen you tube worthy toe curling Welshness:p
So there:splif

[lacroupade]

my ribs are hurting already....:jump

[extreme-4x4]

no no you dont mean ..... not the cream of full blooded welshness

not the beach

and in full youtube styleeee

[lacroupade]

no no you dont mean ..... not the cream of full blooded welshness

not the beach

and in full youtube styleeee

and that bloody buggy thing???????:eek::eek::eek::eek:

the horror! the horror!

[extreme-4x4]

you know him .... he'll do it

[willow]

hi everyone whats going on been away for awhile
looked at the team wales pics glad to see you all got back :lol:lol

Great pics :thumbs:cool:

[makeitfit]

you know him .... he'll do it

You knows it :naughty

[lacroupade]

hi everyone whats going on been away for awhile
looked at the team wales pics glad to see you all got back :lol:lol

Great pics :thumbs:cool:

Ms Willow - great to see you're still with us... we missed you! :kissy

[extreme-4x4]

Ms Willow - great to see you're still with us... we missed you! :kissy
oi i does da kissin of da willow....:kissy

[makeitfit]

Now then Willow welcome back:thumbs
Can you wave your fairy dust over our thread please 'cause it's got all heated again:o
Why does that always happen:sly

[willow]

Because you guys push the boundries:lol:lol:kissy

Never mind it will all blow over but stay safe :):thumbs

[willow]

After a lot of faffing and fiddling about due to poor quality format, namely dvd-ram, which I have now banned from entering my vidcam ever again. Plus losing some good shots.
Here is my finished article.
Hope team Wales enjoys ?
Promise better quality coverage next time.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg43/dadba/2009%204x4%20remix%20diary/th_627c45c7.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/albums/gg43/dadba/2009%204x4%20remix%20diary/?action=view&current=627c45c7.pbr)

So your all film stars now then:):thumbs

Great vids and pics looks like you all had a great time loved the music too :clap

[Terranosaurus]

now the forrest are policed they do have a copper who polices them in his forrestry commision sponsered landy (endurace bike champion too i beleive). i even sat and chatted to him one sunday morning in macdonnalds
he explained it is illegal and he will issue section 59 if your being a pain in the bum. ie wrecking the place or make him chase you .
but he said if i see you in the forrest, i will ask you to leave. if you make a run for it or i catch you again that day . dont bother i will just park up the landy and get the bike out. i will get you, there is nowhere i cant get to. and you will get a section 59. next time its crushed

but if you leave when politely asked im happy with that, just dont wreck the place.

he said i know whats going on the painfull people will suffer if your just exploring and driving safely i have no problems.
also you might not see me but i have seen you several times and you are on video so i dont even have to catch up with you to send you a section 59.

he's a fair man id say. but then it is different here in wales, they do have a different attitude to life , more relaxed. (and im english so i know what its like on both sides of the border)
what they dont want is distruction or uninsured wrecks bombing around the forrest. or kids nicking cars and burning them up the mountain.


You may find teres a wind of chage from the forestry - http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-6Y6EWY

Specifically

Langdale Quest and other subsidiary operations (Wild Encounter II, Club Xtreme, etc.) are no longer permitted to use Forestry Commission land. Under Section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002 and Section 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 your vehicle may be seized and destroyed if you use unauthorised routes on Forestry Commission land or Public Rights of Way without vehicular access rights.

[lacroupade]

Useful feedback Terra - thank you. Its always nice when we can talks facts.

I'm still thinking there are differences in the way these areas are managed. I know, for example, that down here, the FC grants no permanent vehicular access rights in most areas if formally asked (plus a lot of the forestry is in other private hands, not FC), and since its private property, S59 won't apply. There are exceptions made for things like WRC in the Epynt, but as far as I know thats on a case-by-case basis so creates no precedent as far as ROWs are concerned?

It does seem that in the area you've pointed to, however, rights of way of a kind have previously been granted which might bring S59 into play, but I suspect its a debatable issue as its still private property.

Thanks again for the info though!

[Terranosaurus]

They can still give you a S59 for for

Section 3 Road Traffic Act –

3. If a person drives a motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.

Just spinning or locking a wheel would be enough.

[lacroupade]

They can still give you a S59 for for

Section 3 Road Traffic Act –

3. If a person drives a motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.

Just spinning or locking a wheel would be enough.

Absolutely right Terra, but the RTA doesn't apply to private property, only designated public roads (including BOATs etc..) and other ROWs..and even then, its normal for the police to intervene in the latter case only when asked by the landowner whose land the ROW crosses, or the local authority responsible for maintaining that ROW.

I have an example of that not 50 yds from me in Oxon where for years, teenage kids have used field footpaths for their knackered old trials bikes, and yet when residents and walkers complain, police only turn up sporadically and usually hours later. But when the trading estate that owns the land complains, they are patrolling in force (as the CPO explained to me) to kill the problem.

BTW, I know I harp on a bit cos I have a fat mouth:eek:, but its only because it doesn't help when people aren't clear about the law, otherwise they don't know how/when they are breaking it. Hence my mission impossible...:)...edumacation for all!

[Terranosaurus]

You can't have it both ways either it was a road generally open to the public in which case the above would apply or it wasn't.

Either way where careless driving doesn't apply they use dangerous driving instead.

[lacroupade]

You can't have it both ways either it was a road generally open to the public in which case the above would apply or it wasn't.

Either way where careless driving doesn't apply they use dangerous driving instead.

Oh if you mean the forest road, no its not open to the public. We know that; the tracks are there for heavy plant and machinery to go and plant or cut trees....with a 20-30 year gap in between, so as far as I am concerned I'm not going to cause a problem by driving on them and nobody is going to do any more than ask me to leave which I will happily do.

But to cover your specific point Terra, if I allowed vehicles to drive across a piece of my land, thats a private easement, not a ROW which is a different and very specific legal principle. So if I change my mind and ban them, I can't call the police to get them removed or issue S59s, because its civil trespass only, and thats not a criminal issue.

Just because something looks like a road, doesn't mean it IS a road, at least the legal definition of one. Its the legal status thats important.