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06-10-2007, 21:29
This topic was split from another as it was way off topic, now should be easier to follow.

Nice one, sounds better than Meadowhell :lol:

Jim T

Was in Meadowhell for about 20 mins or so, long enough for Lucy to grab what she wanted, and I called into Aldi as I was told they are selling bio diesel, sorry I mean chip fat for 56p a litre. Some strange looks when all I bought was 20 single litre bottles. Would have been a lot stranger if they'd seen me pour it into the tank :roll: :lol:

bigjim
07-10-2007, 08:52
Nice one, sounds better than Meadowhell :lol:

Jim T

Was in Meadowhell for about 20 mins or so, long enough for Lucy to grab what she wanted, and I called into Aldi as I was told they are selling bio diesel, sorry I mean chip fat for 56p a litre. Some strange looks when all I bought was 20 single litre bottles. Would have been a lot stranger if they'd seen me pour it into the tank :roll: :lol:
I called into Aldi as I was told they are selling bio diesel, sorry I mean chip fat for 56p a litre (Quote) must try this some time may need some advice, :arrow: found a BP garage in Milton keynes selling standard deisel for 95p per ltr

07-10-2007, 10:31
I must try this some time may need some advice, :arrow:

Read this thread, http://www.nissan4x4ownersclub.co.uk/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5341 and follow the links in it.

I have also been informed it(veg oil) can be used at 50/50 although to start with I'm using it a bit less. Some are using it at 90% or more, but I believe this can lead to problems cold starting in winter. I'll be filling the tank today from about a 1/4 and will add 10 litres to see how I get on. I dropped in 3 litres the other day on about 3/4 tank with no noticeable differance, I'm now to down to 1/4 tank so will suck it and see.

bigjim
07-10-2007, 16:29
Is that any cooking oil? or vegie oil? or dont it matter much? as long as you can fry with it???? can you fri chips in diesel???? :lol: :lol:

jace
07-10-2007, 18:01
might taste bit funny lol

Terranosaurus
07-10-2007, 18:32
Is that any cooking oil? or vegie oil? or dont it matter much?

Rapeseed oil is better than, sunflower which is batter than Soya il. It's down to viscosity (thickness). I'm running my van on it now, cuts my weekly fuel bill by 1/3 to 1/2 which can't be bad. The vans a Y reg Renault Master 2.8 TDi, performance is the same MPG is th same as best I can tell, smells different but no worse and I only use about 50L a week so can get away with the 2500 limit a year, have all my old receipts for fossil diesel and am keeping all my veg oil receipts. I use rapeseed, which is usually what you get if you buy vegetable oil, but read the label to check.

07-10-2007, 19:05
The cheaper the better as the cheap stuff is normally thinner, I paid 56p for each litre at Aldi and its thin enough to use neat. I filled tank today with 10 litres of veg oil and £45 of ordinary diesel. No noticable differance in any running, just smelld like a chip shop. Been out in it and done some lanes again today, so engine had to work hard, 4 adults and 2 kids in vehicle too. Next time I fill up I'll use more veg oil and keep increasing the amounts gradually to see how I go. Its early days for me with this yet, so its all experimenting and listening to others.

Terranosaurus
07-10-2007, 19:08
I'm on nigh on 100% (just the bit of fossil fuel thats still in there) in the Renault, which engine you got in the Disco Andy.

07-10-2007, 19:10
Its a 200Tdi, with about 111000 on the clock

KillerPete
07-10-2007, 19:19
Camarman,

Keep the updates coming on the vaggie oil run, am very interested in do it myself. But want to make sure nothing is going to go bang before I try it. Need motor for day to day running.

Cheers

Pete.

jace
07-10-2007, 21:02
from what ive read youll need to change fuel filter as veg oil stips varnish that builds up from normal road derv

Terranosaurus
07-10-2007, 21:05
from what ive read youll need to change fuel filter as veg oil stips varnish that builds up from normal road derv

Thats recycled used oil/bio-diesil as far as I can work out, rather than SVO - straight vegetable oil.

07-10-2007, 21:10
I know a chap who has been using it for 12 months with no filter changes and no ill effects. All this sort of info is why I decided to start trying it.

bigjim
08-10-2007, 08:59
I'm on nigh on 100% (just the bit of fossil fuel thats still in there) in the Renault, which engine you got in the Disco Andy.Humming bird i also have a Renault trafic camper van you recon this will run veggie oil its a 2.1d 1988 F reg?????? :lol:

bigjim
08-10-2007, 09:04
Does anyone use the free oil from the chip shops???? i know it has to be filtered and the only bad thing i have heared about it is seperating the animal fats from the cooking oil? but a filtering machine can't be hard to manufacture???? can It???? :idea:

jace
08-10-2007, 09:05
the older engines are usally better little bitov wear and not so many electroncs and fancy bits on them lucas pumps tend not to like it for some reason bosch fine so have butchess see whats on your old beast

bigjim
08-10-2007, 09:10
the older engines are usally better little bitov wear and not so many electroncs and fancy bits on them lucas pumps tend not to like it for some reason bosch fine so have butchess see whats on your old beast
Its as basic as they come jace just a pump dont think its got any fancy eletronic stuff at all :!:

08-10-2007, 09:30
Does anyone use the free oil from the chip shops???? i know it has to be filtered and the only bad thing i have heared about it is seperating the animal fats from the cooking oil? but a filtering machine can't be hard to manufacture???? can It???? :idea:

The filter has to be to 5 microns (I think) and I'm not technical so I don't know what 5 microns is! I believe that to buy they are expensive but having not looked just going on what I heard. But if you gonna give it a lot of use you'll make your money back?

bigjim
08-10-2007, 11:05
Does anyone use the free oil from the chip shops???? i know it has to be filtered and the only bad thing i have heared about it is seperating the animal fats from the cooking oil? but a filtering machine can't be hard to manufacture???? can It???? :idea:

The filter has to be to 5 microns (I think) and I'm not technical so I don't know what 5 microns is! I believe that to buy they are expensive but having not looked just going on what I heard. But if you gonna give it a lot of use you'll make your money back?
Five micron,s is blinking small, years ago we had a serface polisher that polished to within 2microns and that could only be measured with light deflection, transmitting a light beam across the surface of a prepaired surface using a glass thingy, if the prisum went one way it was convect and the other concave but it never gave you an actual size just if the surface was flat or not :?: blimey i am getting old that was 24 years ago :?: :?: :?: -banghead-

bigjim
08-10-2007, 11:10
I don't know what 5 microns is! (Quote)
My be wrong? and no doubt some one will say if i am wrong? I think its 1 millionth of an inch :?: :?:

jace
08-10-2007, 11:34
wonder what the coffee machine filters go down to?

bigjim
08-10-2007, 12:16
I think that you can buy canester type with housings like on your car put these in series and pump through them it should do the job :?:

08-10-2007, 12:49
I just rechecked and this is what I found:
Clean: There shouldn't be any bits in your oil. Diesel is particle-free down to 25 microns, so if you are using waste oil, get a 25 micron filter and pass the oil through that. Discard the gack. Most food oils are filtered and just fine, but you will need to avoid those bitty, murky, tasty first-pressing olive oils. They're way too expensive to burn, anyway!

I got my information from here: http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/vegoil.htm so if 5 microns is very small what is 25 microns? 8O 8O

rustic
08-10-2007, 14:42
A micron is one millionth of a metre.
Or 1 thousandth of a milimetre (as there are 1000 mm in 1m)

So 5 microns is VERY small, and 25 microns is 5 times bigger.
The problem with a 5 micron filter, is that it will clogg quickly, you will need a coarser filter in front to get rid of the bigger particles.
And an even coarse strainer to get rid of the bones :lol: :lol:

To understand size...
Cigarette smoke particles are very small approx 1/3 of a micron.

jace
08-10-2007, 15:14
if u google it it fetches up water purifier filters so like you say passing oil through would be slow and itd clog real quick! there was some lads in kenilworth who had 45gallon drums at different heights on pallets with outlet tap about 6" up drum used to let settle drain into next through filter then do same couple times gues filters got gradualy finer an finer

judoleigh
08-10-2007, 18:14
vegetable oil be it sunflower/rapeseed new or recycled has a nasty habit of cleaning your fuel tank out of any old muck you have in there right into your filters,it also has a tendency to attract water so if your motor starts to get sluggish its time to change that filter.Also after speaking to a customer i had a delivery to the other day you may have troubles with fuel lines starting to deteriorate internally ending up with fuel lines splitting,but for the price of a fuel filter and possibly new fuel lines its worth having a go at.

Terranosaurus
08-10-2007, 18:46
vegetable oil be it sunflower/rapeseed new or recycled has a nasty habit of cleaning your fuel tank out of any old muck you have in there right into your filters,it also has a tendency to attract water so if your motor starts to get sluggish its time to change that filter.Also after speaking to a customer i had a delivery to the other day you may have troubles with fuel lines starting to deteriorate internally ending up with fuel lines splitting,but for the price of a fuel filter and possibly new fuel lines its worth having a go at.

Most of that applies to used not SVO. The cookin process breaks the oils down into fatty acids which attack things.


As well as filtering the oil you need to remove the water content, to do this you need to bring it up to about 70 degrees C and then it will separate out.

Between the "drying", settling and filtering ect you'll have a lot of fuel "in process" at anyone time, you'll end up needing at least half a domestic garage put over to fuel production which is one of the reasons I didn't bother. The other is sourcing the used oil in the first place, problem is theres now a bit of competition for the stuff and chip shops etc want someone who will reliably take theres away everytime they have enough to get rid of, they don't want someone who just takes it when they want some, so the commercial bio-fuel producers are ok they can do that but the rest of us can't.

On another tack, it was a reasonably cold night last night round here and whilst the van started up ok it was a bit smokey but ran. I didn't have enough veg so was going to the gaage next door for some dino diesel. When I pulled up she wouldn't switch off. Turned and even removed the key and just kept running, I assume the thicker oil, especially as still cold was preventing the shut off valve from closing - something to think about.

(RIP) PLANK
08-10-2007, 19:31
COLD WEATHER IS COMING! try putting a litre of veg oil in the fridge over night and look again in the morning!

yes you have a lump of lard! if that happend in your tank you are going no where, or worse still your fuel pipes pump and injectors!

perhaps better to mis it 50/50 now winter is comin on!

does anyone have a decent link to the new rules on veg oil as fuel?

Terranosaurus
08-10-2007, 20:13
Think THIS (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/uksi_20071640_en.pdf) is it but my version of Adobe reader has just packed up so can't check.

Deleted Member S
08-10-2007, 20:37
Thats working fine HB :smile: with Adobe reader 8.1 I think it is I have :roll:

iandouglas
08-10-2007, 20:57
HI.
can you remember me putting a post up regarding 6 x 25ltr veg oil cans left at side of a layby. some lorry had had its tank filled with the stuff.
my question is can we get hold of the stuff from( trade warehouses).
surly if we can get this it will be cheaper .

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
heated fuel filter.
PLANK pointed this out to me at last years rally
my terrano has one in the top of the filter housing two cables come out of it. red and black.
has it been fitted to all of them?.
this should help to run veg oil through filter.
rgds.iandouglas

JonathanM
08-10-2007, 20:59
vegetable oil be it sunflower/rapeseed new or recycled has a nasty habit of cleaning your fuel tank out of any old muck you have in there right into your filters,it also has a tendency to attract water so if your motor starts to get sluggish its time to change that filter.Also after speaking to a customer i had a delivery to the other day you may have troubles with fuel lines starting to deteriorate internally ending up with fuel lines splitting,but for the price of a fuel filter and possibly new fuel lines its worth having a go at.

Most of that applies to used not SVO. The cookin process breaks the oils down into fatty acids which attack things.


As well as filtering the oil you need to remove the water content, to do this you need to bring it up to about 70 degrees C and then it will separate out.

Between the "drying", settling and filtering ect you'll have a lot of fuel "in process" at anyone time, you'll end up needing at least half a domestic garage put over to fuel production which is one of the reasons I didn't bother. The other is sourcing the used oil in the first place, problem is theres now a bit of competition for the stuff and chip shops etc want someone who will reliably take theres away everytime they have enough to get rid of, they don't want someone who just takes it when they want some, so the commercial bio-fuel producers are ok they can do that but the rest of us can't.

On another tack, it was a reasonably cold night last night round here and whilst the van started up ok it was a bit smokey but ran. I didn't have enough veg so was going to the gaage next door for some dino diesel. When I pulled up she wouldn't switch off. Turned and even removed the key and just kept running, I assume the thicker oil, especially as still cold was preventing the shut off valve from closing - something to think about.

Sounds likely, just stall it! I ran an old peugeot 305 with a knackered stop solenoid and had to stall it whenever I wanted to leave it anywhere!!

Terranosaurus
08-10-2007, 21:03
vegetable oil be it sunflower/rapeseed new or recycled has a nasty habit of cleaning your fuel tank out of any old muck you have in there right into your filters,it also has a tendency to attract water so if your motor starts to get sluggish its time to change that filter.Also after speaking to a customer i had a delivery to the other day you may have troubles with fuel lines starting to deteriorate internally ending up with fuel lines splitting,but for the price of a fuel filter and possibly new fuel lines its worth having a go at.

Most of that applies to used not SVO. The cookin process breaks the oils down into fatty acids which attack things.


As well as filtering the oil you need to remove the water content, to do this you need to bring it up to about 70 degrees C and then it will separate out.

Between the "drying", settling and filtering ect you'll have a lot of fuel "in process" at anyone time, you'll end up needing at least half a domestic garage put over to fuel production which is one of the reasons I didn't bother. The other is sourcing the used oil in the first place, problem is theres now a bit of competition for the stuff and chip shops etc want someone who will reliably take theres away everytime they have enough to get rid of, they don't want someone who just takes it when they want some, so the commercial bio-fuel producers are ok they can do that but the rest of us can't.

On another tack, it was a reasonably cold night last night round here and whilst the van started up ok it was a bit smokey but ran. I didn't have enough veg so was going to the gaage next door for some dino diesel. When I pulled up she wouldn't switch off. Turned and even removed the key and just kept running, I assume the thicker oil, especially as still cold was preventing the shut off valve from closing - something to think about.

Sounds likely, just stall it! I ran an old peugeot 305 with a knackered stop solenoid and had to stall it whenever I wanted to leave it anywhere!!

Knocked it off again on the M1 in queue and it worked fine then and for the rest of the day.

Paul
08-10-2007, 21:41
Been using oil from Asda for the last couple of weeks only thing I have found is that I get puffs of blue smoke when I fire her up.

Apart from that.. Kids chasing us up the street asking for CHIPS!! -rotfl-

Sorry had a drink! :oops:

KillerPete
08-10-2007, 21:53
Paul, your suppose to put in your tank, not drink it :lol: :lol:

Anyway just to check somthing, if I get cooking oil from Aldi or Asda etc I mix it in my tank. I do not have to refine it or filter it or do anything to it only drink it......sorry.....put it my tank and run on it??????

Pete.

jace
08-10-2007, 21:57
new oils ok jims being tight again and thinking local chippy will love him if he takes old oil away,as with all these things get on bandwagon asap before everyone cottons on an asda bung prices up

Paul
08-10-2007, 22:00
Paul, your suppose to put in your tank, not drink it :lol: :lol:

Anyway just to check somthing, if I get cooking oil from Aldi or Asda etc I mix it in my tank. I do not have to refine it or filter it or do anything to it only drink it......sorry.....put it my tank and run on it??????

Pete.
Thanks Pete!! -rotfl-

All I have been doing is throwing it in the tank in the carpark then driving home... Selling chips on the way!! :lol:

Deleted Member S
08-10-2007, 22:00
Apart from that.. Kids chasing us up the street asking for CHIPS!! -rotfl-
Sorry had a drink! :oops:

Are you saying paul you've built the 1st maverick burger van -rotfl- -rotfl- In that case i'll have 3 cheese burgers & a portion of chips please with S&V -rotfl- -rotfl- Oh do you deliver :roll:

Sorry I had some of that funny pop aswell :roll: :roll: :oops:

Paul
08-10-2007, 22:02
Apart from that.. Kids chasing us up the street asking for CHIPS!! -rotfl-
Sorry had a drink! :oops:

Are you saying paul you've built the 1st maverick burger van -rotfl- -rotfl- In that case i'll have 3 cheese burgers & a portion of chips please with S&V -rotfl- -rotfl- Oh do you deliver :roll:

Sorry I had some of that funny pop aswell :roll: :roll: :oops:
Well we deliver :lol: but it's 1 litre of cooking oil a mile.. :smile:

iandouglas
08-10-2007, 22:05
rgds and two bergers pleasei.
DOES THIS MEEN WE GET ON SITE CATERING WHEN WE GO GREEN LANING WITH ANDY AKA CHIPANDISCO.
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

Paul
08-10-2007, 22:11
rgds and two bergers pleasei.
DOES THIS MEEN WE GET ON SITE CATERING WHEN WE GO GREEN LANING WITH ANDY AKA CHIPANDISCO.
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
If you order now it's going to get so cold by December!

But you will still owe us the oil!

Pete the way this is going we will not have to buy any fuel to get there and back! :lol:

jace
08-10-2007, 22:12
i used to have a burgher van it was called "fb catering" sold it on ebay when girl who ran it had heart attack due to to many fags she still smokes like chimney madness! i used to get all oil an stuff from makro they do the 25l cans in all variations/flavours thatd give you 50/50 mix roughly in one go pump it in with water pump off caravan.
just watching news think veg oil is going to become very popluar!

KillerPete
08-10-2007, 22:34
rgds and two bergers pleasei.
DOES THIS MEEN WE GET ON SITE CATERING WHEN WE GO GREEN LANING WITH ANDY AKA CHIPANDISCO.
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
If you order now it's going to get so cold by December!

But you will still owe us the oil!

Pete the way this is going we will not have to buy any fuel to get there and back! :lol:

Paul, How much are we charging for the green stuff (penicillin I think its called)

Deleted Member
08-10-2007, 23:15
http://greenfuels.co.uk/
http://www.refuelenergy.co.uk/
http://www.bioukfuels.co.uk/
http://www.bioenerg.co.uk/
http://www.bio-d.co.uk/
http://www.crownoil.co.uk/

just some biodiesel companys.. :?

(RIP) PLANK
09-10-2007, 09:25
Think THIS (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/uksi_20071640_en.pdf) is it but my version of Adobe reader has just packed up so can't check.

yes works fine, a bit terse though!

anyway, last night i put a litre of sunflower oil in our fridge the display is set at 3 degrees celcius, this morning it is still lovely and runny! however i find ordinary 'veg oil' (as opposed to sunflower) sets like lard at this temperature!

Terranosaurus
09-10-2007, 10:14
http://greenfuels.co.uk/
http://www.refuelenergy.co.uk/
http://www.bioukfuels.co.uk/
http://www.bioenerg.co.uk/
http://www.bio-d.co.uk/
http://www.crownoil.co.uk/

just some biodiesel companys.. :?

Bio deisil bought from these companies is a bit cheaper that dino fuel but you're still lining the chancellors pocket as these are taxed. You need to be a producer to be exempt, just taking the top of a bottle of veg oil and pouring it into your tank is producing apparently.

jace
09-10-2007, 10:15
one off the companys suplying the kit is using 10micron filter kits gonna weigh in at over 1100 quid + your used oil so gonna take while to pay for itself better off goin to tesco unless your gonna use gallons an galons

(RIP) PLANK
09-10-2007, 10:43
a new angle on this veg oil stuff!

many companies out there are now offering veg oil conversions all suggesting it needs pre heating etc.

so how come they are offering kits if you can just put it straight in your tank?

jace
09-10-2007, 10:46
the peheat kit is for warming the fuel in filter usally as veg oil that bit thicker than derv 50/50 mix is to keep it thin as per your fridge exsperiment! + most people wont believe you can run it straight and will pay out good money for few wires etc! ebay fever lol just been over on navara.net to ask on there if any of the newer common rail engines are running veg oil as know few brand new pathfinders/navaras on here!
you tried it in transit yet there suposed to luv it running smoother the lot yours will have the better bosch pump aswell lucas pumps dont like it for some reason!

09-10-2007, 11:06
I think companies sell kits because people will "pay" to save money.

I was told last night of someone who just paid between £700 & £800 for a filter and he only uses his car to work and back.

Veg oil is probably just the lastest gimmick (althopugh I'm using it) and the price will increase untill its level with diesel then we'll be back to square one.

jace
09-10-2007, 11:24
thats it you need to make sure your happy to use it safely then get on bandwagon asap or prices will go through roof once chancellor sees his diesel revenue shrink hes gonna look round as to why and how to get it back an some bright spark will point to sales off veg oil as fuel an thatll be that!

rag1873
09-10-2007, 14:05
Im a bit apprehensive to use the veg oil incase it messes anything up coz i couldnt afford the repairs!! Has anyone used it on a 2001 terrano yet??
It certainly looks like the way ahead!!!

Deleted Member
09-10-2007, 14:13
Im a bit apprehensive to use the veg oil incase it messes anything up coz i couldnt afford the repairs!! Has anyone used it on a 2001 terrano yet??


Not tried it yet in mine!! :roll:

Deleted Member S
09-10-2007, 15:29
Im a bit apprehensive to use the veg oil incase it messes anything up coz i couldnt afford the repairs!! Has anyone used it on a 2001 terrano yet??
It certainly looks like the way ahead!!!

Your not alone as I feel the same as i'm scared incase a break something else on my T2:roll:
Whilst shopping in asda to day we got some veggie oil( asda's own 54p per L) for the deep fat frier, so I read the lable & it said it was 100% rapseed oil :roll: Am I right in thinking that it would be ok to got into the tank :?

(RIP) PLANK
09-10-2007, 15:31
i am going to have a look at my transit pump and make sure it is a bosch i may give it a go myself! have you tired it in your transit yet Jace, or are you waiting for me to be the guinea pig :lol:

Though i can see it all going bossoms up!

they are either going to start selling red veg oil for non fuel use

or charge £1.20 a litre either way my chips wil never be the same again!

I hope your happy with yourselves :evil:

jace
09-10-2007, 15:37
ive no need i dont pay pump prices pay less than half lol itll definatley be bosch as shes a smiley on transit forum this was being discussed months ago loadsa off them doing it u can tweak bosch pump verry easily to improve midrange

(RIP) PLANK
09-10-2007, 15:42
have you got a link for the transit forum so i can have a nosey? cheers

Terranosaurus
09-10-2007, 15:43
I've been into Aldi and Netto today and there prices have gone up too, same a all the major supermarkets 68p/L. Cheapest non trade type outlet I can find is Co-op 64p/L which is odd as Co-op are usually expensive.

Netto even had a sign that said only 6 per customer on 1L bottles. :lol: :lol: :lol:

KillerPete
09-10-2007, 19:17
How can I find out which pump I have?? :oops: :oops:

Deleted Member
10-10-2007, 10:35
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VOW2C-Veg-oil-Bio-diesel-Fuel-Heater-Heat-Exchanger_W0QQitemZ170155509813QQihZ007QQcategoryZ 9895QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIte m

Don't think i'll be buying 1 though!!.. :lol:

jace
10-10-2007, 10:52
dont think you need one on 50/50 mix diesel thins it down for u not sure if its still ok at 70/30 bit like lpg need to start warm up on petrol then flick switch for gas once engines warm u could divert heater pipe round fuel filter

10-10-2007, 11:15
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VOW2C-Veg-oil-Bio-diesel-Fuel-Heater-Heat-Exchanger_W0QQitemZ170155509813QQihZ007QQcategoryZ 9895QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIte m

Don't think i'll be buying 1 though!!.. :lol:

Makes good reading, but you need to be on 100% veg oil for it to work:

Heating neat Diesel to 90oC does not give better mileage it just kills the car

I think they are just chancers: You accept full responsibility for the use of our heaters.

Using 50/50 mix (more or less) seems to be the way to go at the moment.

I'll not be buying one either

Deleted Member
10-10-2007, 11:36
I know you have already prob. been on this site,got alot of good info..

http://www.veggiepower.org.uk/vegoilcar.htm

JonathanM
10-10-2007, 19:58
Cheap fuel warmer is an old fuel filter & heater assembly from a Peugeot diesel, circa mid 1980's. they used a Lucas fuel filter that had a base plumbed into the cooling circuit. So as the engine warmed up it circulated hot coolant into the base of the fuel filter.

Deleted Member
11-10-2007, 10:50
Just heard on my local news that they are doing roadside stop checks for red diesel,bet there will be a few caught around here!!! :roll:

11-10-2007, 11:03
Just a quick update on mine. I noticed starting from cold the engine starts ok but then the tickover is eratic and the needle bounces around a lot. It used to be rock steady. Was still eratic on arriving home this morning too, otherwise its running fine on about 60% veg. Of course it could be another problem with the tickover or it could be nowt.

JonathanM
11-10-2007, 22:02
from what ive read youll need to change fuel filter as veg oil stips varnish that builds up from normal road derv

Its biodiesel that does this, due to the process that it undergoes it becomes a very good solvent. AFAIK with veggie oil there isn't any problem with the diesel varnish being stripped from the lines etc.

jace
11-10-2007, 22:09
been on local radio round here red diesel spot checks next week gues where on petrol station forcourts lol if your runnin cherry last place your gonna go is local esso ! anyone used kerescene my mate runs his old sitroen bx on it!

Terranosaurus
11-10-2007, 22:44
56p/L in 1L bottle in Lidl today for Rapeseed oil, bought a few cases.

jace
11-10-2007, 22:51
looked at mrs asda cooking oil thats rapeseed shoppin day tommorow so ill c what they charge gonna try an convince mrs ol man his rover 420d will be ok on it hes always moaning about fuel if it dies at least its one less rover on road

Terranosaurus
11-10-2007, 23:11
looked at mrs asda cooking oil thats rapeseed shoppin day tommorow so ill c what they charge gonna try an convince mrs ol man his rover 420d will be ok on it hes always moaning about fuel if it dies at least its one less rover on road

£1.98/3L seems to be Asda's latest price from experience and from other forums

jace
11-10-2007, 23:15
lidl out in front so far!

12-10-2007, 12:18
Morrisons, Asdas, Tescos and Sainsburys all seem to be about £1.98 for 3 litres.

Aldi, Lidl and Netto seem to be about 56p for one litre but I have heard they sometimes restrict the amount you can buy.

Makro sells 20 litre drums for about £7 - £8 if I remember correctly, no VAT.

jace
13-10-2007, 13:14
http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=16288
found this over on navara site

knotting-pot
23-10-2007, 12:55
Yep Asda £1.98/3litres................but the shelf is always empty!
Running mine at about 20-25% at the moment but still experimenting. I probably will bottle out at 50/50.

23-10-2007, 13:09
I just bought 50 single one litre bottles in aldi, price has increased by 0.12p per litre 8O

The look on the till girls face was priceless :lol: but not as priceless as the looks people give me when I tip them into the tank in the car park :lol:

Smells like a cross between bar b que and chip shop :roll:

Not noticed any differance in running yet although a very small differnace on tickover(but this could be owt). Its been off roaded several times with plenty of extra stress on engine too.

So far so good.

bigjim
25-10-2007, 22:26
A micron is one millionth of a metre.
Or 1 thousandth of a milimetre (as there are 1000 mm in 1m)

So 5 microns is VERY small, and 25 microns is 5 times bigger.
The problem with a 5 micron filter, is that it will clogg quickly, you will need a coarser filter in front to get rid of the bigger particles.
And an even coarse strainer to get rid of the bones :lol: :lol:

To understand size...
Cigarette smoke particles are very small approx 1/3 of a micron.
I knew someone would put me right

Terranosaurus
25-10-2007, 22:36
I think it's totally unrelated to running on veg oil (unless someone can show otherwise) but the turbo on my van went on monday, impeller disintegrated and the bits took out number 4 piston, so its complete replacement engine and turbo £850+vat so not too bad + fitting.

jace
25-10-2007, 22:36
so she liking the veg oil mate, you on new or used filtered stuff?

bigjim
25-10-2007, 22:40
Sorry Have a look at these links then www.bio-power.co.uk/svo.htm
www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/introduction.html

jace
25-10-2007, 22:40
them reno quite easy whole front comes off outve way drop enginge/box on its complete cradle/shocks lot move van outve way we put later engine into old m reg nice 2.2tdi lump only difference we came across was wirring for some load bay lights and washer bottle mount on newer van had bracket for ecu built in sat same place used same bolts the lot!

jace
25-10-2007, 22:55
you on tesco oil or chip fat stuff then mate them heat exscangers gonna need the engine run up for little whiles though on normal derv to get some heat in water

Toolbox
25-10-2007, 23:02
Oil dilution can occur, during cold starting, idle or part load, when using veg oil, leading to a rise in oil level on the dipstick. If left unchecked (not changing the oil) this could cause problems with the turbo and bearings etc.

(RIP) PLANK
25-10-2007, 23:08
I hav ebeen giving this veg oil thing some thought and i look at it like this, assuming a few basic figures (accuracy is approximate) and using a 50/50 veg oil diesel mix.

presently spend £60 a week on diesel, and assume veg oil is 1/3 cheaper

so £30 diesel amd £20 on the equvalent amount of veg oil

I am saving £10 a week, and to be honest for many people maybe half this? and a set of injectors costs? and a fuel pump?

I think i will give it a miss for a while until there is more evidence on cold winter morning starting etc.

feel free to coreect my maths i f i am wrong :wink:

Terranosaurus
25-10-2007, 23:14
I was and will be running on SVO, its a 2.8 TDI Iveco lump I'm told. Have left garage to do engine, I can be earning money to pay for it instead and keeping customers happy so they keep doing business with me, better for me in the long run than save a few hundred now.

Hadn't been running it on veg for long enough for oil dilution to be an issue. What I didn't know about these engines is they run a "glow plug" in the fuel line as standard to pre heat fuel as its DI with no injectors, what I could do with doing is playing with the lectrics to leave it switched in for first couple of mins as engine warms up.

I was running th tank pretty low at the end of a day and then putting £10 of dino in at fuel station next door before finishing for the day, this left it at 70-90% dino diesel. I'd then put in th required amount of veg in for the following day before going out. This meant I started on pretty pure dino diesel but it quickly moves over to a high % veg mix. The engine takes bout 2 mins of driving to get up to temp and was running nice and smoke free this way.

I suspect what may have killed the turbo might have been past owners lack of servicing and/or the nature of the driving it does. Multi drop type work but with some runs up motorways and straight in to customer with a hot turbo, then turn off engine. Maybe a turbo timer would be of use to help let the turbo cool before stopping.

(RIP) PLANK
25-10-2007, 23:19
I think HB has a fair point, we might see some break downs on veg oil that would have happened anyway, but will be attributed to veg oil as people are a bit nervous!

even at the best of times things do break!

bigjim
25-10-2007, 23:30
At the end of the day it should only effect the bang in the cyclinder and as long as it's not too much more violent, i cant see why it should affect the mechanics and engine internals, the only thing that i can see affected is the pump and the fuel system by the altered viscosity (useing new oil ) if useing used cooking oil that, plus animal fats and acids which mechanicly is contained in the cyclinder, again the only problems i can forsee is feed viscosity probs :?:

26-10-2007, 02:23
On my way home from work just now coming up a steep hill, I was pulled over by two very nice young Police ladies who told me my Disco smelt like a Kebab shop and was putting out black smoke and they wondered why.

I explained I had just filled up with veg oil and diesel and it had to mix (Maybe a tad too much veg this time)

They both had a wander round the car and as one pointed out, "its pointless looking at his tyres have you seen the depth of tread?"

I had to explain what a snorkel was for too and why I was out at 0130 before being let on my way.

Serves me right I suppose for I normally go in the other Mav, but if I had I would have been just a little over the 40MPH speed limit

Better keep my eyes peeled from now on

(RIP) PLANK
26-10-2007, 08:51
I think you have passsed the real test for veg oil there! getting stopped and the police being OK with it!

my Dad allways used to say you can tell your getting old when the WPC's get better looking :wink:

and what were you doing out at that time :?:

26-10-2007, 10:32
I think you have passsed the real test for veg oil there! getting stopped and the police being OK with it!

my Dad allways used to say you can tell your getting old when the WPC's get better looking :wink:

and what were you doing out at that time :?:

Well thats what I thought when they let me go.

Yes they were nice looking, but don't you feel old when all you have to say to them is, arn't you a little young to be out on your own at this time anyway?

I work nights, normally finish between 0145 and 0200 sometimes a few hours either later if I'm unlucky.

(RIP) PLANK
26-10-2007, 11:43
Ok then young man, ill let you off this time, be on your way! but dont let me catch down this way again :lol:

lexi
26-10-2007, 13:00
I hav ebeen giving this veg oil thing some thought and i look at it like this, assuming a few basic figures (accuracy is approximate) and using a 50/50 veg oil diesel mix.

presently spend £60 a week on diesel, and assume veg oil is 1/3 cheaper

so £30 diesel amd £20 on the equvalent amount of veg oil

I am saving £10 a week, and to be honest for many people maybe half this? and a set of injectors costs? and a fuel pump?

I think i will give it a miss for a while until there is more evidence on cold winter morning starting etc.

feel free to coreect my maths i f i am wrong :wink:

I do agree. I also think the whole thing has got out of hand. Whenever something goes totally mainstream the good is out of it. To go to a supermarket and spend the time in the queue......then the time to fill all those bottles into a tank........then dispose of those bottles... 8O

What is green about that? The production of the oil.. the packaging the recycling of the containers....

It`s a bit like when you see the shopkeepers in a retail store buying all the specials and then there is nowt left for the wee Wifeys :oops:

Anyway Rant over :evil:

Alex

jace
26-10-2007, 13:15
gonna be same as anything only real way making saving is to buy bulk 25l drums and decant it i use a caravan water pump to pump diesel veg oil maybe bit thick to use same idea,doubt many interested in green isue cash saving is gona be formost in there minds

(RIP) PLANK
26-10-2007, 16:09
And if you are only saving a tenner or less per week and doing all that extra running around, is it really worth it? especialy when you consider no one can promise no problems with the vehicle as a result!

Paranoid I know but it makes me wonder why the government have done it? do they expect many older cars to go wrong and end up scrapped thus boosting their drive to get old cars off the road? it is one possibility!

jace
26-10-2007, 16:15
it sounds good an green but 2500l when no one policed it in first place just another headline grabber to try bury some other nonscence released by another deptment + as others are pointing out supermarkets soon contaning on an your ten quid saving soon getting slimmer

iandouglas
26-10-2007, 19:42
hi all.
well today i have put 15lts of rape seed oil in terrano and topped up with diesel. 33lts. 97.9p. all at TESCO.
198p for 3 ltrs.
by time i drove the 4 miles home i had a (donut special) :P :P
remember my truck is getting the rattles from the
cam and followers so decided to give it a go .
not much to loose realy.
plus i am working on the M1 @ J 31 road widening .
so will have a good run each day.
long live the donut :wink:
rgds.iandouglas

jace
26-10-2007, 19:51
every site i seem to read about seem to say the test vehicle runs a little sweeter on veg oil mix wonder if even mixed its little bit thicker taking up bitve wear in pump etc? or is it being imagined

(RIP) PLANK
26-10-2007, 19:57
it reminds me of an old sayin, it doesnt translate well into English but something like: the fire wood burns all the hoter for being stolen. :lol:

Myabe here are some psychological benefits of veg oil yet to be discovered :wink:

jace
26-10-2007, 19:59
ah yes i get you mate father laws granny always said poached rabbit/trout tasted all the better lol

(RIP) PLANK
26-10-2007, 20:16
years ago i used to run all my vehicles on propane, I sold the last one in 2001 whwn it went main stream, the most i ever spent on a conversion was £60 and used to get gas for 12p litre! as soon as it wen main stream the benefits were lost.

but until then i used to get the smug satisfaction of knowing i was one up on the tax man!

I still have a tip for cheap LPG I can share by P.M. and know a man who can do the conversions!

Boggert
26-10-2007, 20:42
How about this...http://www.biofuelssolutions.co.uk/smallscale.asp

and than add a bit of this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1000L-used-Vegetable-Oil-UCO-WVO-for-Biodiesel-SVO_W0QQitemZ140171736938QQihZ004QQcategoryZ26261Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

bigjim
26-10-2007, 20:48
Amasing what you can do with a pump filters and afew balls aint it///// :oops: :?:

jace
26-10-2007, 20:55
i used to use those kindve tanks for diesel there 1100l i had two setup trouble was one was only 1000l used to take 20mins to fill so toddled off to have brew ended up 100l on floor stinks workshop out

Boggert
26-10-2007, 21:09
My Brother and I are seriously thinking of getting one...

jace
26-10-2007, 21:12
tell u what if you were in takeaway buisness itd make serious scense to have delivery cars on it

27-10-2007, 01:17
Used oil is the one that may cause problems later for your vehicle, its all documented somewhere on here. I believe it strips the muck out of the tank or similar. Best is just veg oil straight from bottle, it can be bulk bought at Makro, Costco and so on.

To answer an earlier post, I'm saving abount £16 per tank when I fill up, so its worth it to me. Normal cost £70 ish Cost with veg and diesel £54.

jace
27-10-2007, 08:44
every penny helps as sayin goes, £16 a week towards lift kit

jims-terrano
27-10-2007, 10:00
All this is very tempting but I'm still worried about causing a great big repair bill. Can anyone answer my questions below as I'm reading so much and getting more and more confused.

I am thinking about using some new rapeseed oil.

I'm assuming that after a while my fuel filter will need changing due to rapeseed oil cleaning muck and scale from fuel lines :?:

Will my injectors be OK :?:

Injector pump, I've heard there is a rubber component inside that perishes with the rapeseed oil :?:

Due to cold weather the rapeseed oil thickens and becomes difficult to start and run :?:

Will the rest of the engine be fine :?:

Do I need to fit some kind of heater to run a mixture of Diesel and Rapeseed Oil :?:

Do I have to inform taxman :?:


Jim T

(RIP) PLANK
27-10-2007, 10:25
one last thing to consider Jim how much do you spend on diesel each week, and how much will you acctualy save?

Terranosaurus
27-10-2007, 10:55
First off a couple of definitions

SVO - Straight vegetable oil, brand new veg oil of whatever type

Bio-diesel - Treated waste oil


I'm assuming that after a while my fuel filter will need changing due to rapeseed oil cleaning muck and scale from fuel lines Question - No thats for Bio Diesil

Will my injectors be OK Question - no known issues that I've heard of and have done a lot of research.

Injector pump, I've heard there is a rubber component inside that perishes with the rapeseed oil Question - the perishing is with Bio-diesel, but some pumps don't like the thicker oil, lucas in particular.

Due to cold weather the rapeseed oil thickens and becomes difficult to start and run Question - a lot depends what percentage SVO you run, I found mine a little smokey and lumpy on start up when % too high

Will the rest of the engine be fine Question - the rest of the engine doesn't know what you're putting in it, there is a question over contaminating the engine oil, but if your ring are in that bad a condition that would be an issue on dino diesel. Also talk off build up in the ring land area but this seems to be on older lower compression/non turbo diesels that don't burn as efficiently.

Do I need to fit some kind of heater to run a mixture of Diesel and Rapeseed Oil Question - can do it depends on the % you run.

Do I have to inform taxman Question - No as long as you don't use over 2500L in a year, but its best to keep records so you can prove how much you've put in. I keep all my receipts for business anyway.

jims-terrano
27-10-2007, 11:56
Cheers H, a couple more questions.

Do I need some kind of Heater for the fuel, I don't intend to use pure rapeseed oil. Probably less than 50% in reality as you will need to buy quite a lot of the stuff :?:

How do I tell if mine is a Lucas pump :?:

Plank, in all honnesty I don't do as much mileage in the truck anymore. Possibly around 50 miles a week unless I take it out somewhere, just like the idea of cheap fuel when I do longer runs.
My other rollar skate is a Renault Scenic 1.5DCI (105BHP version) which I do around 500 or 600 miles a week. Now as far as I'm aware this one is a complete NO NO for anything other than plain Diesel at a £1 a litre.

Jim T

Jocky
27-10-2007, 12:13
Please read this for long term problems using Veggie oil

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

Read the lot and use at your peril.

Yes Bosch pumps don't like it either not just Lucas

Vegetable oil, what ever type you use is full of glycerene (soap) and will eventually wreck pumps, choke injectors and piston rings. There is plenty of info if you look for it.

:smile:

Terranosaurus
27-10-2007, 13:11
Please read this for long term problems using Veggie oil

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

Read the lot and use at your peril.

Yes Bosch pumps don't like it either not just Lucas

Vegetable oil, what ever type you use is full of glycerene (soap) and will eventually wreck pumps, choke injectors and piston rings. There is plenty of info if you look for it.

:smile:

That site strikes me as one mans edited version of what he's resarched with possibly a commerial link to some of the conversion kit suppliers.

THIS site whilst run by a commercial company, includes a genuine discussion forum and real life data on using SVO and Bio, including a German with a 2.7TD T2 who's done over 20,000 km on SVO with a heater admittedly.

I'm told there are a number of electrical pre heaters available through ebay, these use a thermostatically controlled glow plug to heat the oil, you can also use heat exchangers in the water system too, though these obviously don't heat up instantly. I'm going to look into a heat exchanger for my van and also loook into running the standard fitment fuel line pre heater so it stays on till the engine is up to temp not just for starting.

Theres a lot of myth and rumour, my advice is go away, use google, rad lots of different sites and see what you think yourself from what you read. But remember the petrol chemical industry does not want you using anything else but dino and they are in bed with the motor manufacturers, some of whom claim that their engines will not run on even 5% veg/bio content, yet France already has that much in all their dino and a lot of British diesel does too, after all the government have signed up to increasing that too, so can a small percentage really be harmful or is it propaganda from the industry.

jace
27-10-2007, 13:22
its nothing new either the idea like lpg been around for yrs just with fuel prices being mental its gained new lease life

Jocky
27-10-2007, 14:28
the petrochemical industry don't care what fuel you use. Petrol and diesel is a by product from the stuff they really want.

BP will soon be one of the biggest manufacturers of Biodiesel which is mostly made from rapeseed, those nice yellow flowers you see in all the fields where food used to be grown :roll: don't put all your eggs in the same basket springs to mind

If you do a google as you say, you will find all the info you need. I just pointed out the other side of the coin that damage can and most likely will be caused in TIME. There have been plenty of tests carried out if you follow the links

biodiesel is a different beast as it is better for your engine because all the crap has been removed if its made correctly.
I've made a couple of home batches and its amazing to see how much crap come out of virgin veggie oil

Yes randolph diesel used peanut oil, but what type of injectors and pump did he use, it was 19 canteen.
It certainly wasn't the hi tech stuff we've got now. Injector pumps need proper lubrication to last or they will die.

We've had this discussion before and its popped up again.

So have a good read before you make your decision.

I'll be quite honest here I'd rather use gas oil before veg oil in my engine both will lead to same thing no car. Different reasons -rotfl-


:P

(RIP) PLANK
27-10-2007, 18:08
Plank, in all honnesty I don't do as much mileage in the truck anymore. Possibly around 50 miles a week unless I take it out somewhere, just like the idea of cheap fuel when I do longer runs.
My other rollar skate is a Renault Scenic 1.5DCI (105BHP version) which I do around 500 or 600 miles a week. Now as far as I'm aware this one is a complete NO NO for anything other than plain Diesel at a £1 a litre.


To be honest Jim i do a fair few miles about 450 to 600 a week, an i worked out with a 50/50 mix iwould save £10 a week at most! so i am not ready to take the risk! and on the longer runs fuel economy goes up so the saving is smaller! with doing 60 miles aweek using a simple division the saving of £1 a week?

people say they have done 'research' but google usually just uncovers other peoples opinions on the web, real research would involve long term testing of a particular engine set up an monitoring the results! I am with gego on this one mate, BP dont care if your engine blows up or not, i am giving it a miss until more evidence is in!

bigjim
27-10-2007, 18:21
My truck is always on the go kids and clubs and misses to and from work and quite often runnig cold so consumption goes up always looking for a cheaper solution also its better for the enviroment its got to be the way to go

(RIP) PLANK
27-10-2007, 18:32
the jury is still out on whether its better for the environment! the simple co2 absorption by the next crop doesnt stand up too well as not may crops are grown just for fuel, an dthey dont absorb as much co2 as burning fuel produces and the remainder of the plants after oil is removed has to go somewhere! its natural deacay causes more methane productions whih anyone who read the stuff about cows knows is bad for the environment!

and what about all those plastic bottles going to the land fill?

Remember when diesel was supposed to be the future for the environment in the 80's and they started selling us all on the idea of diesel cars? and then suddenly an about turn and the diesel went up and the road tax?

and if your car is on he go all the time with everyone counting on it, do you want to take any chances?

dont get me wrong i am all for alternatives and saving a bit of cash! and if you have a second vehilce for off roading that you dont need every day for work etc. then give it a go, but I am not sure about this yet!

Terranosaurus
27-10-2007, 18:44
and what about all those plastic bottles going to the land fill?

Mine all go in the recycling, but I'd like to move onto 15/20/25L drums so that that isn't so much of an issue.

jace
27-10-2007, 19:42
persnolly i couldnt give stuff for enviroment or recycling if i was to use it itd be cost isue!

(RIP) PLANK
27-10-2007, 19:59
are they recycling plastic your way then? is it a local authority thing?

and as for environment i do think its an added bonus if you can help keep the planet clean, i don't think i would pay more to do it, but wouldnt go out of my way to cause problems either!

jace
27-10-2007, 20:09
i had batch of enviromentally freindly stihl two stroke delivered the other week dearer than normal but it was all they had so got it same price llol

(RIP) PLANK
27-10-2007, 20:32
Jace, what is this about veg oil for saw chains?

Deleted Member S
27-10-2007, 21:14
Do you think pouring in the odd 2 litres of Rapeseed oil with a full thank of derv would help to cleen some of the crap out of my fuel system instead of redX :? :?:
I was thinking of cooking my chips in some bio veg oil :? but i'm not that keen on the taste of Derv -rotfl- -rotfl- -rotfl-

jace
27-10-2007, 23:37
i dont know why its different from the red stuff but stihl do green two stroke oil it says on bottle its safer for enviroment same thing for chain oil twice price though

bigjim
28-10-2007, 10:23
the jury is still out on whether its better for the environment! the simple co2 absorption by the next crop doesnt stand up too well as not may crops are grown just for fuel, an dthey dont absorb as much co2 as burning fuel produces and the remainder of the plants after oil is removed has to go somewhere! its natural deacay causes more methane productions whih anyone who read the stuff about cows knows is bad for the environment!

and what about all those plastic bottles going to the land fill?

Remember when diesel was supposed to be the future for the environment in the 80's and they started selling us all on the idea of diesel cars? and then suddenly an about turn and the diesel went up and the road tax?

and if your car is on he go all the time with everyone counting on it, do you want to take any chances?

dont get me wrong i am all for alternatives and saving a bit of cash! and if you have a second vehilce for off roading that you dont need every day for work etc. then give it a go, but I am not sure about this yet!
Then who gives a stuff? it still cheaper and when people cry about me pulling up outside the school in my 4 x 4? i can squeel at them that it runs on bio fuel does yours? :lol: 8) -banghead- -banghead- -wor-

bigjim
28-10-2007, 10:27
i dont know why its different from the red stuff but stihl do green two stroke oil it says on bottle its safer for enviroment same thing for chain oil twice price though
Hit the nail on the head their jace green taxation, and green profiteering = foul goverment poicies and foul capiliziam ( not that I am a raving red) but the rich companies should also be doing there bit.

jace
28-10-2007, 11:37
i dare say it cost a few quid more to develop but theyll soon recoup dosh think how much of stuff gets used.
normal diesel wouldnt be so bad if you got rid of some tax of it you pay fuel duty then vat ontop that so your paying tax on tax good eh!.
as for all this mumbo jumbo on enviroment again nothing new its been hot before london had rhinos wandering round in hotter temps than were at know just few people have seen nice little earner in saying be green slam oil burners youll look cool and get nobel prize even if half stuff you spout wrong and shouldnt be used in education. my view its all bs

Jocky
28-10-2007, 11:52
I don't give a monkies for the environment its all rubbish that were getting force fed :twisted:

The government need X amount of money to run the country, yes they waste money on wars etc.

If they reduced fuel tax duty they would just take if off you somewhere else they would have to :twisted:

Big companies should do their bit? What can they do? What would their shareholders say/do ? what would happen to pensions, insurance, ISA's etc?

Its companies profits, share values that pay for these things.

I don't like paying tax like everyone else but thats the world we live in and its never going to change.
No UK government is never ever going to reduce fuel tax duty. It doesn't matter what banner there under, it will never happen and we all know it.

Rant over :wink:

I would make biodiesel if I could get cheap methanol, but that ain't going to happen, because it is a commodity chemical the same as the aromatic hydrocarbons that go into making petrol and DERV.

I certainly won't be using veggie oil in my engine in any mix when there is a chance that I will do it damage. If I can't afford to run it because of fuel prices I'll just get something that runs on WATER -rotfl- Sorry couldn't resist that :wink:

:smile:

jace
28-10-2007, 12:02
didnt someone get us that link for running car on water? id go for that as i aint got water meter lol
http://www.wam-a-bam.com/hydrockickbank.html?hop=goose1888
loads on google this was first one!
just watching country file on bbc1 cows sheep etc are causing more greenhouse than all worlds engines incl jets so were not to blame its all farmer palmer and his burping/farting cows i propose a steak tax to ofset the problem every cow should have health warning on them

Terranosaurus
28-10-2007, 13:59
are they recycling plastic your way then? is it a local authority thing?

Leeds CC have been collecting plastic bottles for recylcing for a good many years now, I've moved next door to Selby DC but still have LS postcode (go figure) where they don't, but all the major supermarkets have skips for it. Might be cos LINPAC (http://www.linpac-recycling.co.uk/) who are the market leaders in recycling plastics are just down the road.

(RIP) PLANK
28-10-2007, 18:36
that has imprssed me recycloing plastic for so long! do you have to remove all the lids and labels etc.?

knotting-pot
29-10-2007, 13:47
Oil dilution can occur, during cold starting, idle or part load, when using veg oil, leading to a rise in oil level on the dipstick. If left unchecked (not changing the oil) this could cause problems with the turbo and bearings etc.

Checked my engine oil yesterday and found it was above the high level and when I smelled the oil on I could swear it smelled of cooked veg oil!
Having a bit of a re-think at the moment as I too can't afford to be without a car and for a saving of only £10/week I am wondering if the risk is too great.

29-10-2007, 13:57
Oil dilution can occur, during cold starting, idle or part load, when using veg oil, leading to a rise in oil level on the dipstick. If left unchecked (not changing the oil) this could cause problems with the turbo and bearings etc.

Checked my engine oil yesterday and found it was above the high level and when I smelled the oil on I could swear it smelled of cooked veg oil!
Having a bit of a re-think at the moment as I too can't afford to be without a car and for a saving of only £10/week I am wondering if the risk is too great.

Those two comments have made me think too, sometimes when I check the oil it seems a bit high and next time its Ok. Occasionally off road in low box I get the oil light flickering on a bit and then the temp rises, left to tickover or turned off it drops again and all is Ok.

(RIP) PLANK
29-10-2007, 15:26
I too can't afford to be without a car and for a saving of only £10/week I am wondering if the risk is too great.

It appears my point was closer to the mark than i first thought! I think you are both brave for giving it a go though, and for letting us all in on the problems!

iandouglas
29-10-2007, 19:59
hi .
i have now done 150 miles on a 25% mix starting from cold is almost as quick.
tick over is about the same .
havent checked engine oil but will tommorrow and report results.
power seams the same ,NO SMOKE,
if i reverse onto drive heater pulls smell into cabin and it STINKS.yuk.
it makes you think about possible damage to engine if used long term ,but say if a long trip cornwall or something i would be tempted to go 50 50 . IN THIS TRUCK BUT IF I GOT A DECENT ONE I JUST DONT KNOW.
rgds.iandouglas

jace
29-10-2007, 20:23
cant see how veg oil would get past rings on good engine diesel would do exactly same an seing as veg oils thicker than diesel even less likely think bitve plank paranoi creeping in here!

Deleted Member
29-10-2007, 20:28
Did somebody not mention somewhere that the oil can strip the inside of the fuel pipes?? :?: If it does,surely wouldn't be very good for the fuel pump/filter :?:
I could be totaly wrong on this,i usually am! :lol: :lol:

jace
29-10-2007, 20:43
nearly right used/cleaned stuff strips clean fuel system supermarket new stuff doesent

(RIP) PLANK
29-10-2007, 20:43
[quote="gego"]I don't give a monkies for the environment its all rubbish that were getting force fed :twisted: [quote]

I think its pretty short sighted not to care about the environment at all! and i am sure thats not what you meant! butwe simply cant keep producing rubbish at the same rate, pumping stuff into the atmosphere etc. Its not all down to 4x4's obviously but surely there has to be a positive side to trying to keep the planet clean?

Like the story about cows and methane, gave many people an excuse to say, its all rubbish its not our fault its the cows, but why are all the cows here? yes for the benefit of people, hence it is peoples fault!

The litter and dumped rubbish everywhere makes me sad and i must admit it is largley due to a loss of 'respect' and if thinking about the enviroment restores this respect it has to be a good thing, dont you think?

but as far as the veg oil is concerned i think it is only the promise of money saved and the idea of getting one over on the tax man that attracts us to it!

jace
29-10-2007, 20:50
i see it as my eco freindly green tree hugging duty to eat as much cow meat as possible to deplete stocks an stop them killing my enviroment by farting!

Deleted Member
29-10-2007, 20:51
I agree entirly plank with your comments,but as for the fuel increases,where is all this tax money going it surely isn't going on the roads!!
Is is about 78p per ltr that is tax?
All that money going straight into the treasury.
Surely they should just scrap the road tax,we pay enough taxes!!
As usual the motorist gets hit in the pocket again. :evil:

jace
29-10-2007, 20:52
mps need to pay there exspeses tabs somehow mate

(RIP) PLANK
29-10-2007, 20:55
Yes cosmic i agree the relationship between high tax and the environment is difficult to see, if we need to use less carrier bags then fair enough but where does high tax help? are they using used tenners like paper mache to repair the ozone layer :?: :lol:

bigjim
29-10-2007, 20:58
[quote="gego"]I don't give a monkies for the environment its all rubbish that were getting force fed :twisted: [quote]

I think its pretty short sighted not to care about the environment at all! and i am sure thats not what you meant! butwe simply cant keep producing rubbish at the same rate, pumping stuff into the atmosphere etc. Its not all down to 4x4's obviously but surely there has to be a positive side to trying to keep the planet clean?

Like the story about cows and methane, gave many people an excuse to say, its all rubbish its not our fault its the cows, but why are all the cows here? yes for the benefit of people, hence it is peoples fault!

The litter and dumped rubbish everywhere makes me sad and i must admit it is largley due to a loss of 'respect' and if thinking about the enviroment restores this respect it has to be a good thing, dont you think?

but as far as the veg oil is concerned i think it is only the promise of money saved and the idea of getting one over on the tax man that attracts us to it!
always been cows on the planet mate, before domestic farmed cows think of the bison and dinosors before all pumping out methane like a drag raced nissan terreno :roll: :lol:

jace
29-10-2007, 21:03
they know they have us by short curlys most cant do without our cars so well grumble groan an get on with it we are taxed to death u pay road tax,fuel duty(tax),vat on fuel,vat on any part you buy tyres oil+filters etc,vat on any work on vehicle, never mind every other kindve tax tey clobber you with

(RIP) PLANK
29-10-2007, 21:04
yes but the dinosaurs have little bearing on our present circumstances and the current levels of farm cattle would be unsustainable in a natural environment! they are over produced, and are breeds that are not seen in the wild and probably could not survive!

Interestingly though they recon in siberia there are vast areas of frozen pre-historic vegetation that has been stopped decaying for all this time by the ice, global warming is causing a partial thaw and releasing methane! so maybe them dinosaurs should have ate more :lol:

I do htink though that all the conspiracy theory stuff about the governmnet and the environment and tax, just proves they ae using it as a nexcuse to rip us offand exageraing the urgency! not that there are no environmental issues!

jace
29-10-2007, 21:12
trouble is if there is a real problem most of us are starting to feel ripped off and that government are using the green isue to do it so belittling it!
you wouldnt want to be stood behind one of those dipodicus things if it let go create whole new hole in ozone layer

(RIP) PLANK
29-10-2007, 21:52
yep and they use the motorist as a scape goat and then the motorists and tabloids get together and blame 4x4's, divide and rule!

Deleted Member
29-10-2007, 22:08
[/i]Yeah the goverment want us to use public transport,ok come to the borders i say,or prob,anywhere in the highlands,no train lines only buses and private taxis here!!
As for the buses,they do have some new ones but most are ageing,and churn out more pollution than a carpark of 4x4s.
And as for taxis....For a 7 mile trip one way here you are fleeced 15 hard earned pounds..
I'll be staying in my seemingly high poluting T2 thanks.. 8)

jace
29-10-2007, 22:26
when gordon and his collegues get there toyota priuses i may think about car polution!

bigjim
29-10-2007, 22:34
[/i]Yeah the goverment want us to use public transport,ok come to the borders i say,or prob,anywhere in the highlands,no train lines only buses and private taxis here!!
As for the buses,they do have some new ones but most are ageing,and churn out more pollution than a carpark of 4x4s.
And as for taxis....For a 7 mile trip one way here you are fleeced 15 hard earned pounds..
I'll be staying in my seemingly high poluting T2 thanks.. 8)
nopublic transport around here well not going in the right direction any way 8)

jace
29-10-2007, 22:44
round here the local racing club (warwick) are operating a subsidised taxi service for oaps/sick people other than that buses to rural ares stop around six run maybe three times a day so next to useless for little ol biddys who realy need them

(RIP) PLANK
30-10-2007, 00:16
but you do re use you carrier bags surely :?: :lol:

jace
30-10-2007, 00:30
i swear there breeding in our house but only on a friday when the queer one gets back from asda with half shop top washing machine is stuffed with hundreds of them even the exspensive reusable ones i throw wobbler every now and again and bung em all away!

Terranosaurus
31-10-2007, 20:41
Veg oil up to 68p/L in Lidls today so its about the same in all the supermarkets now 66-68p. Looks like I best go to Makro or Costco for supplies for next week.

bigjim
31-10-2007, 21:53
i swear there breeding in our house but only on a friday when the queer one gets back from asda with half shop top washing machine is stuffed with hundreds of them even the exspensive reusable ones i throw wobbler every now and again and bung em all away!
I do that Jace and 10 mins after they have been collected by our trusted local bin men i need one or ten :lol:

(RIP) PLANK
31-10-2007, 23:54
I know we are wondering but a great example of real recycling is a car boot sale, all stuff being re sold and re used and even a fair use of old super market carrier bags!

Then think about the scrap manin his trusty transit truck taking all that junk away, more real life re cycling!

compare to Mr suit and tie spends 20 mins in the que with engine running to put two chablis bottles, a marmalade jar and weeks worth of the times in the recycing bank! and he probably looks down his nose at the scrap man and the boot sale!

I htink the future for the environment has to be 'real recycling'!!

Terranosaurus
31-10-2007, 23:59
Anyone use Freecycle (http://www.freecycle.org/) now that really is recycling, well actually its not its reusing but thats splitting hairs. We've had lots of useful stuff off the Leeds one and put up a load of (what was to us) rubbish that people have been only too glad to have.

(RIP) PLANK
01-11-2007, 00:21
funny story, i needed to get rid of a load of stable manure and checekd freecycle, there were several people asking for manure desperatley (understandable with the popularity of allotments) we had only one woman turn up who took very little and never came back as promised! so I couldnt give it away!

I decided to try and sell it, i have been inundated with people wanting to buy it and could have sold it ten times over!

so maybe the moral is stick it on ebay first, freecycle second !

re using has got to be better than recycling as it requires no additional resources, remember when they used to take back your empty, pop, milk, beer, bottles and use them again? now that is a good idea!

Terranosaurus
01-11-2007, 00:29
remember when they used to take back your empty, pop, milk, beer, bottles and use them again? now that is a good idea!

They still do in places like Germany, in fact the deposit on the bottle is more than th contents in some cases which tends to encourage you to take them back.

bigjim
01-11-2007, 14:48
Oil dilution can occur, during cold starting, idle or part load, when using veg oil, leading to a rise in oil level on the dipstick. If left unchecked (not changing the oil) this could cause problems with the turbo and bearings etc.

Checked my engine oil yesterday and found it was above the high level and when I smelled the oil on I could swear it smelled of cooked veg oil!
Having a bit of a re-think at the moment as I too can't afford to be without a car and for a saving of only £10/week I am wondering if the risk is too great.

Those two comments have made me think too, sometimes when I check the oil it seems a bit high and next time its Ok. Occasionally off road in low box I get the oil light flickering on a bit and then the temp rises, left to tickover or turned off it drops again and all is Ok.Myths and legends of vegetable oil use
this part of those links i posted good reading????

There is a lot of rubbish talked about concerning these fuels. Some of it is a result of people trying to protect their 'secret' recipes and thereby creating mis-informative myths. One of these was the 'teaspoon full of white spirit in vegetable oil' on the top gear program - absolute rubbish! The 'white spirit' was supposed to be a special fuel additive. Beware of myths - lets create legends!

Myth number 2. Not all diesel engines will run on a mix of 95% diesel and 5% white spirit. Again, absolute rubbish! We've heard of quite a few vehicles actually breaking down on this brew. Older vehicles, with indirect injection, without lucas pumps, are more compatible with higher concentrations of vegetable oil. White spirit can be added, but quite a bit more than 5% would be needed to have any effect.

Some people mix vegetable oil with petrol and use it in a diesel engine! See Database

We have heard of some vehicles travelling over 200,000 km on vegetable oil.

bigjim
01-11-2007, 16:42
remember when they used to take back your empty, pop, milk, beer, bottles and use them again? now that is a good idea!

They still do in places like Germany, in fact the deposit on the bottle is more than th contents in some cases which tends to encourage you to take them back.

Bring them days back use to have some good scams running when i was a kid??????? and i bet jace did them as well :lol: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

(RIP) PLANK
01-11-2007, 18:03
we occasionaly used to nip round the back of the pub for empties and then recycle them at the off licence counter I must admit :lol:

jace
01-11-2007, 19:01
when i were a lad growing up in bishops tachbrook club was foot of our garden used to get emptys and take em to outdoor sales hatch exschange em 4 bottle vimpto lol best of it was they were there bottles

Deleted Member
01-11-2007, 19:45
Ok,at my work they use 15ltr drums of vegitable oil in the fryers(doesn't say what it's made up of!!) once they use it,it gets taken away by someone.
So are you all saying it would be feesable to strain it with a 25micron filter and put it straight into the tank??
Or is it not as simple as that!!
If that's the case i'm laughing!! :lol: :lol:

Terranosaurus
01-11-2007, 19:49
Its not a simple as that - we could start a whole new forum (let alone just a thread) discussing it.

jace
01-11-2007, 20:42
have look at big jims posts he posted few links you need few different chemicals to do job properly

Jocky
03-11-2007, 23:11
Ok,at my work they use 15ltr drums of vegitable oil in the fryers(doesn't say what it's made up of!!) once they use it,it gets taken away by someone.
So are you all saying it would be feesable to strain it with a 25micron filter and put it straight into the tank??
Or is it not as simple as that!!
If that's the case i'm laughing!! :lol: :lol:


If you want to use that oil its got to be converted to BIODIESEL

You mix a quantity of methanol with caustic soda and make a TOXIC chemical called methoxide, after filtering the oil heat mix in the methoxide stir and watch all the crap fall to the bottom which is glycerine (soap) the biodiesel on the top, then needs water washed to get rid of the acid, then dried to get rid of the water. You then reclaim the methanol from the crap by distillation and then reuse the methanol in your next batch :P :wink:

The chemical process is called transesterification.

After making it you then have to tell HMCE what you have done and pay fuel tax duty :roll: You then have to work out how much extra electricity you've used to make the biodiesel and how much harm you've caused to the enviroment to save about 2p a litre on fuel.

If anyone thinks engines are causing climate change they should STOP using their car and WALK, you should NOT use public transport as that make no difference to you causing climate change.

The fact is if we can't afford the fuel we shouldn't own a car. Then when we no longer pay fuel duty, the government will start taxing us for causing climate change by the amount of CO2 we expel when we breath -banghead- :mrgreen: -rotfl- -rotfl- -rotfl-

Or we can whinge as usual and buy DERV from TESCO who are trying to take over the WORLD -wor-

03-11-2007, 23:46
Soory Gego, no offence meant but too many big words in that post above, you was loosing me at biodiesel, when you got to transgenderificationism I'd lost it -rotfl- I'll just stick to 50/50 veg oil by the litre and diesel. Its just too much messing to go any other route. I have trouble using a key board, can you imagine me trying to mix from the list above :roll: -rotfl- If I didn't die from the fumes I'd probably die from the explosion :wink:

Jocky
04-11-2007, 03:48
Thats why I'm going to use good old petrodiesel (DERV) :wink:

My good old T2 engine was designed to run on it :smile:

Save £10 a week for a few weeks or months before your injector pump gives up the ghost then get the £2k bill for repairs. Don't it make you feel good -rotfl-

I'm sure I put something about cheap tesco fuel in my last post but it appears to have vanished :roll: very strange :roll:

or is it the methoxide fumes that are doing it -rotfl- -rotfl- -rotfl-

Have fun burning crap in yer tractors :twisted:

Deleted Member
04-11-2007, 07:03
Ok forget that idea!! :lol: i'm no scientist so i'll leave all that mixing chemicals alone,will only blow myself up or gas myself... :lol: :lol:
I'll keep putting what's ment to go in it for know.. :?

rossco
04-11-2007, 09:21
Don't worry about your chip fat try this just good old H2 O mixture to run your diesel engine nothing fancy :wink:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0711/S00017.htm

NEDDY
04-11-2007, 11:03
I woudn' mind having a go at making some but when i get to the chemical process 'My wife says she wont give me a lone of a frock and high heels she's olso mummbling something about my glasses.

bigjim
04-11-2007, 13:08
Don't worry about your chip fat try this just good old H2 O mixture to run your diesel engine nothing fancy :wink:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0711/S00017.htm
Rossco how much is diesel down under???? cos the uk must now be the most expensive fuel in the world, or near on. this chip fat talk is desperation talk cos we are getting taxed to death in the uk and when we die we get taxed again! and that ain't no joke but truth

jace
04-11-2007, 13:28
daft thing is this country has oil/gas fields and government laughing at it gets revenue at source then off us poor saps no one people running red/kerescene

(RIP) PLANK
04-11-2007, 16:05
I am still with gego on this! the savingsa re realtively small, and if you go down the biodiesel route is sounds very intereesteing and perhaps a good hobby, but also very time consuming and surely that otweighs the savings,

work all day then brewing fuel in the shed all night? I'll give it a miss and watch telly and drink a few cans, and maybe a drop of single malt instead, instead. Now the tax on a litre of decent Scotch put the price of diesel in perspective :lol:

Deleted Member
04-11-2007, 20:32
It's now hit £105.9ltr for Diesel and £101.9ltr for Unleaded here!!! But i think the veg oil has gone up as well,infact all the prices are going sky high!!
Was just thinking have the goverment got a gagging order on the fuel protestors,they have been very quite!! :? 8)

jace
04-11-2007, 20:36
new anti terrorisym laws preevent any kindve fuel protests as with most this new legislation it has other uses! theyve just passed phone and e mail snooping laws an you can bet any fuel protesters systems will be closley monitored!
as for veg oil maybe more people turning to it as alternative so supermarkets seeing chance for quick profit!

iandouglas
04-11-2007, 21:04
hi.
tesco last friday £1.98 for 3lts of rape seed oil .
tesco this friday £2.21 for 3lts of rape seed oil.
:cry: :cry: :cry:
rgds.
iandouglas

(RIP) PLANK
04-11-2007, 21:17
This may be relavent to veg oil! does anyone remember the olden days like me when the diesel in site JCB's used to set on frosty days, i remember one clown setting light to a couple of old cement bags under the engine (which usually worked) and set fire to the whole thing!

anyway, soon winter diesel was invented, this seems to be one of the main problems facing veg oil users at the moment, would the same way they stopped the diesel settting work for veg oil, and how did they do it?

iandouglas
04-11-2007, 21:43
hi plank.
we used to put a little 4 star in with diesel in winter to stop it freezing.
i am thinking of going back to diesel before cold weather comes.
save veg or warmer times.
rgds.iandouglas

Jocky
04-11-2007, 21:53
They also used to put a small amount of petrol in to stop it freezing, but I don't think we'll need to worry about freezing diesel due to all this climate change stuff -rotfl- -rotfl- -rotfl-

Wish people would stop going on about the tax.
If it wasn't on the fuel it would be on something else(FACT).

THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS YOU CASH

Half fuel duty and put income tax up to 50p in the pound, how would that suit us all :roll:

The only difference is if you work for a living you have to pay income tax, but if you own a car you don't need to put fuel in it you can lovingly admire it through the window and wish you could afford the fuel -rotfl- -rotfl- -rotfl-

Thats what they say they are trying to do :twisted:

Terranosaurus
04-11-2007, 21:59
Wish people would stop going on about the tax.
If it wasn't on the fuel it would be on something else(FACT).

Yes but whilst people like you are willing to pay it I'll save a few quid on mine thankyou.

Personally I think they should scrap the Tax disc, introduce an MOT disc and make valid insurance part of the test and then recoup the money through an increase in fuel duty - but it will never happen as some civil servants would end up out of a job.

(RIP) PLANK
04-11-2007, 22:08
if you read between gego's view and HB's you can seee the reason for keeping the road tax!

even when you cant afford to put fuel in it and drive it anywhere you will still be paying the road tax just for the privelage of owning the car! ratehr like having a tally and having to pay the licence!

interesting point by jace about changes in the law!

My commments about disel used to clog in winter and veg oild still doing it were accademic as I still feel the risk/saving equation is not balanced enough for me,

and you might as well be paying tax on the fuel to keep it of other areas, as to give it to greedy price fixing retailers, who will put veg oil up out of greed (just like LPG) the mknock on effects of more exspensive veg oil could be inflation on most food products!

or is this just inflation by the back door, a governmet excersise in manipulating the market? they will loose no fuel duty as fuel has gone up and therefore so has the amount gained in tax, which offsets the amount lost in those using veg oil, what do you htink?

jace
04-11-2007, 22:23
theres no way the govrnment will lose out what peter gets here paul will pay there catch 22.
i would welcome tax disc scrapped for fuel duty be much fairer if you have gas guzzler youll pay more little ol ladys in festers going to tesco once week and bingo on wed night be net winners.
intervention from europe has pushed lpg up as it breaches competition rules same will happen to veg oil if enough cotten on!

LouLou
04-11-2007, 23:24
Lidl today charging 62p litre for rape. In the past year I have seen Asda's 3 litre bottle of veg/rape change from £1.50 to £1.90 per bottle. That rise is not just because demand for Biodiesel 'production' in the UK or open markets. It is just cashing in on demand compared to DERV pricing.

04-11-2007, 23:48
I just like leaving a cloud of black smoke and chip shop smell when I accelerate :twisted: makes the saving worth while to me :twisted:

When we're out on the lanes, people behind always say things like "I'm really hungry today" or "I really fancy fish and chips or a BBQ" :twisted:


-rotfl- -rotfl- -rotfl-

Deleted Member S
04-11-2007, 23:59
They also used to put a small amount of petrol in to stop it freezing, but I don't think we'll need to worry about freezing diesel due to all this climate change stuff -rotfl- -rotfl- -rotf

Just been outside & the T2 is iced up so it has'nt warmed up yet for me :lol: :lol: :lol:
The price of every thing seem to be going up at the min not just fuel eg a bag of frozen chips has gone up 30p in a week & the same for my heating fluid (vodka) 8O 8O :lol: :lol:

Jocky
05-11-2007, 02:53
Wish people would stop going on about the tax.
If it wasn't on the fuel it would be on something else(FACT).

Yes but whilst people like you are willing to pay it I'll save a few quid on mine thankyou.

Personally I think they should scrap the Tax disc, introduce an MOT disc and make valid insurance part of the test and then recoup the money through an increase in fuel duty - but it will never happen as some civil servants would end up out of a job.

Its not that I'm willing to pay its that I've got to pay if I want to drive my car. I nearly put a banned word in there. So don't people like me OK. It also reads that you don't care if someone loses their job. Thats a touch selfish is it not????? Sounds like I'm alright Jack, I'm saving a £10er a week.
If you don't pay it the rest of us will pay your share, how does that sound to you?. Because in the end thats what will happen. TAX Evasion, bet you never thought of it as that did you???????
The more people that do it, the bigger the fuel tax duty increase for everyone else. (FACT) I'm all for saving money on tax etc, but in the end someone has got to pay for it. 5+5=10 not 9, 8 or 7

I also agree that Road Tax should be scrapped and the money put on fuel duty. Then the people doing more miles pay more for wear and tear on our great roads and the damage they are doing the environment.
Much fairer system, but it won't happen as the haulage companies would be well out of pocket, inflation would got up and hit everyone including the people who are saving a few quid doing less miles.
So it comes again to robbing Peter to pay Paul. Guess who PAUL is, the GOVERNMENT. He is not going to like that is he?

I'm going to say it again if you can't afford the juice well, we live in a free country, well it was the last time I looked :roll: Sell the tractor and buy a 60mpg tin can. Then when PAUL wises up he can hit you on higher road tax and fuel duty on your small car to recoup the monies he's lost on people getting shot of the tractors and gas guzzlers. Down size and PAUL will get you eventually. Its already happened once when everyone started to get diesel cars. Cheap diesel more MPG yes, well surprise DERV is dearer that PETROL.



I'm not trying to rattle anyones cage there just trying to point out the simple facts.

:wink: :wink:

Let all enjoy our 4x4's when we still can -rotfl- -rotfl-

As for the law change, it really stinks of big brother is watching us all. So I think that we don't live in a free country :twisted:

I agree with Plank on the biodiesel, would be a good hobby if I had time space and wasn't halfcut all the time :wink:

(RIP) PLANK
05-11-2007, 16:27
well gego you agree with me and we are both half cut most of the time, we must be cousins or something :lol:

I also agree that when lots of people start dodging tax (in this case in a leagal manner) it has to have consequences, it only seems to work when just a few people do it, now it is all open and legal I cant see there being any real saving or the government would never have allowed it.

It does give a good large scale test of the suitability of veg oil as a fuel, amongst other things.

bigjim
05-11-2007, 19:54
I also agree that Road Tax should be scrapped and the money put on fuel duty. Then the people doing more miles pay more for wear and tear on our great roads and the damage they are doing the environment. quote
dont Road tax pay for defence? not road repairs?corrr double it :!: i might get a payrise :lol: :lol: :lol:

jace
05-11-2007, 20:13
aint your payrise determined by yanks tax etc though wouldnt it mate they still get relatively cheap fuel -for know!

Jocky
05-11-2007, 22:11
Road Tax pays for everything except the roads -rotfl- -rotfl- -rotfl-

jace
05-11-2007, 22:26
well someones gotta pay the mps wages and pensions let alone expenses!

(RIP) PLANK
05-11-2007, 23:25
but they do such a good job and work hard for the good of us all for realtively little reward compared to what such enlightened thinkers could get in the private sector, and they sacrifice it all for us and dedicate themselves to the meagre life of an M.P., shame on you jace for under-mining these fine men and women! :lol:

jace
05-11-2007, 23:36
whod of thought it off me eh! id slash there wages and other benefits use funds to pay nurses,fireman,soldgiers etc who actualy work for us more, i think if your a minister for health you should be advised by doctors and nurses on what needs doing defence minister by front line troops on what equipment they need to stand chance etc etc sorry for ranting off topic

(RIP) PLANK
05-11-2007, 23:39
see Jace thats why you are not an MP you dont realise what a good view of the front line you have from the bar in the house of commons! or what great experience of the NHS can be gained in taking bungs for honours. Us mere mortals will never understand the hardships facing these brave people :lol:

and yes Off topic!

LouLou
07-11-2007, 14:26
If the gov wanted to cut taxes the first place to look would be to seriously reduce the number of gov funded 'quangos'.

For example and ignoring the political implication of the subject matter a there was a recently published report into the possibility of TB transferal from badgers and whether their numbers should be reduced/culled. Cost of compiling this report over several years was £34 million.

The conclusion to the report was that badger numbers should be reduced but it was too expensive to do it.

So after £34 million spent............for what?

But at least the government placated various groups by saying they at least looked into it? :evil:

What's a few mill after all. Not as if we could use it anywhere else after all?

P

jace
07-11-2007, 16:12
i remember network rail had problem with badgers digging into banks of cuttings etc they built special enclosures with solar powered electric fences to stop them digging the amount of solar panels that went missing was mad cost fortune couldnt kill the little blighters as there protected! now they wanna kill poor little sods whod be ol brock eh!

(RIP) PLANK
07-11-2007, 16:55
off toipic but i am allways inthe market for a cut price solar panel :wink: :lol:

and i love that word 'quango' - quasi autonomous non governmental organisation, says it all not really an independent body just pretending to be :lol:

Its funny but governemnt allways seems to be about compromise and contradiction, for example both protecting wild animals and culling them! high fuel tax and then help yourself to 10 gallons a week of veg oil with no fuel tax, wha tis it all abotu? perhaps trying to please as many people as possible without really achieving anyhting?

bigjim
07-11-2007, 19:48
If the gov wanted to cut taxes the first place to look would be to seriously reduce the number of gov funded 'quangos'.

For example and ignoring the political implication of the subject matter a there was a recently published report into the possibility of TB transferal from badgers and whether their numbers should be reduced/culled. Cost of compiling this report over several years was £34 million.

The conclusion to the report was that badger numbers should be reduced but it was too expensive to do it.

So after £34 million spent............for what?

But at least the government placated various groups by saying they at least looked into it? :evil:

What's a few mill after all. Not as if we could use it anywhere else after all?

P
how about 35 million not to build an assylum centre near Bicester

jace
07-11-2007, 21:23
we nearly had one at old raf base at mickleton nr longmarston people power did it a death nothing to do with it being snobby area of course!

(RIP) PLANK
07-11-2007, 21:51
before we go completely off topic! I wonder if burnoing animal oil/ fat would be the same? we could clear up on the trumping cows and perhaps even the obesity epidemic at the smae time as saving a few quid :lol:

what a way to go, roaring through the turbo of your favourite 4x4 as it ploughs through the mud :wink:

jace
07-11-2007, 21:55
itd be rendering fat into oil in tank lol why stop there remember soilent green film

(RIP) PLANK
07-11-2007, 23:18
i do an d i remember that bloke (was it paul newman?) pedaling away on his excercise bike to run the single bare light bulb, now theres environmentaly friendly for you :lol:

and it would also free up a lot of land for building, so all in all i thnk we may be onto something :wink: :idea:

LouLou
08-11-2007, 02:11
how about 35 million not to build an assylum centre near Bicester

Exactly ;)

before we go completely off topic! I wonder if burnoing animal oil/ fat would be the same?

Do'able and I have seen some Septics posting that they are running on neat large with tank pre-heaters to do exactly that. Wouldn't want a cold snap though. Think of the fuel line blockages? LOL 8O

(RIP) PLANK
08-11-2007, 13:10
Loulou as i said in an earlier posting try putting a botle of cheap 'veg oil' in a cold fridge overnight and you end up with a lump of lard, so peobably pretty much the same thing will happed if it gets realy cold here this winter.

Thoiugh i did try pure sun flower oil and with our fridge set on the display to 3 degrees C it did not set overnight!

but it might be worth trying this with whatever oil you choose and even making up a bottle of whatever ratio veg/derv mix you use and trying it out?

Deleted Member
08-11-2007, 22:32
Diesel has just hit £109.9ltr here and Petrol £103.9ltr veg oils also going up,guess this is the knock-on effect from the haulage company's..must be costing them an arm and a leg! :?

jace
08-11-2007, 22:40
glad i dont pay fuel bills in eddie stobarts firm 1100 trucks doing 5-6mpg be very sad man!

(RIP) PLANK
08-11-2007, 23:30
I paid 100.9 for diesel here yesterday! what happened to no fuel fridays?

jace
08-11-2007, 23:33
on wednesday?

(RIP) PLANK
08-11-2007, 23:36
:lol: no i was refering to our little protest not to buy fuel on a Friday is it still going on? I have only just remembered we had agreed to do it!

jace
08-11-2007, 23:43
im ok just got in another 90 gallon reserve lol lads still seem happy at £2 gallon so im chuffed

(RIP) PLANK
09-11-2007, 14:43
i would be happy at £2 a gallon :wink:

jace
09-11-2007, 14:53
thats why i never worry about distance if i want something and its other end country i just go get it! i like the veg oil idea just to be different jsut to say it workskndve thing watc peoples faces drop in suprise!

(RIP) PLANK
09-11-2007, 17:34
Agreed i like the idea of veg oil just not sure about it yet and the saving isnt big enough to tempt me!

I dont worry to much about the cost of diesel since switching back to a transit for day to day knocking about, i know its the wrong forum to say this but it carries twice as much and does almost twice the MPG of our swb T2

I know i have let the side down :oops: :lol:

Deleted Member
09-11-2007, 19:41
That maybe plank but can your trani go where your T2 can?? :lol: :lol:

jace
09-11-2007, 19:44
no trannies of the ford kind no good off road front end sinks in even with wider tyres on you can get county tractors 4x4 transit apparently capable of road little top heavy though! trannies of the other kind beyond my remit mate!
on news some new buisness park is to get its power from rape seed oil generators so oils gonna go through roof when that fires up!

jims-terrano
09-11-2007, 20:06
OK due to someone running into the side of my scenic this week I'm back to using my beloved T2 everyday so am doing 400 to 500 miles a week. So with this and the spirraling cost of fuel the temptation to try SVO is back again.
How can I tell what make of Injector Pump I have and why don't Lucas pumps like SVO.

Jim T

jace
09-11-2007, 20:19
i dont think lucas got near terranos it is weird why they dont like the veg oil from what ive read 50% mix should be ok but price is shooting up so savings not that good

(RIP) PLANK
09-11-2007, 20:35
That maybe plank but can your trani go where your T2 can?? :lol: :lol:

well its quite a good mix realy as i do take my transit off road every day over wet grass fields and some feilry deep mud and it it has a decent load in the back it seems OK! I used to use a twin axel pick up and that used to slip and stick somtheing terrible! Also it is no where near as 'top heavy' as the t2 when laoded up, if you ever try loading a T2 right to the roof maxumum capacity front to back it does tend to roll a bit on the corners :lol:

BUT!, i do no the transits limitations and thats where the T2 comes in very handy they make a good complimenting pair really!

The T2 is often a proper tractor pulling big round bails of hay out of wet field etc. I am even looking for decent gang mower to tow behind it for topping the paddocks, if anyone has one knocking about let me know :wink:

and as for the tranni his hight heels sink in the wet ground and he hates getting his perm wet :lol:

Toolbox
09-11-2007, 22:59
OK due to someone running into the side of my scenic this week I'm back to using my beloved T2 everyday so am doing 400 to 500 miles a week. So with this and the spirraling cost of fuel the temptation to try SVO is back again.
How can I tell what make of Injector Pump I have and why don't Lucas pumps like SVO.

Jim T

You probably have a Bosch VP37 pump, there is a possibility it could be a Zexel that is the same as a Bosch but built under licence by the Japs I think.
To check, lock the front wheels around and peel back the rubber inner wing cover, on the drivers side and take a look at the square flat area on the side of the pump should say Bosch some place with a list of part numbers etc.
The VP37 should be ok on veg oil, on another note I read some bad reports with the later Bosch VP44 pump as fitted to the 3 litre engine, running on veg.

jims-terrano
09-11-2007, 23:18
Ta Jeremy

bigjim
10-11-2007, 17:55
i dont think lucas got near terranos it is weird why they dont like the veg oil from what ive read 50% mix should be ok but price is shooting up so savings not that good in that link i put in earlyer the guy recons veg oil is ok in lucas

jace
12-11-2007, 00:21
well it looks a though fuel protests may be on the agenda!
http://www.transaction-2007.com/

bigjim
12-11-2007, 10:46
Cant wait my take day off work and join them, the yanks at work pay 48p per ltr and they recon that dear to mainland US, :cry: they dont let me buy it or should i say the customs and excise dont let me buy it :cry:

(RIP) PLANK
12-11-2007, 10:55
Jim am i gettting this right US Nationals in the UK getting half price fuel for use on UK roads?

12-11-2007, 11:02
It wouldn't surprise me, cos it happens in Germany too. When i was living in German (British Army) we used to buy fuel coupons from the pay office for cheaper fuel as German fuel was then too expensive.

We also had to have a wage top up, called local overseas allowance to bring our wages to the minimum standard of Germany (or any other country we were in)

Deleted Member
12-11-2007, 11:06
£110.9ltr for Diesel,when is it going to stop,surely this can't be good for the consumer!!

jace
12-11-2007, 11:55
no use moaning about about it only way there gonna take any notice is when theres people out there costing them money! imagine france ports be blocked paris would be gridlocked but over here some one wil write a stern letter to the times!

(RIP) PLANK
12-11-2007, 14:33
The post office promised me 6 first class stamps as compensation for delivering a letter late. So Jace i may use one of them to wite a letter to our local free paper, that should do the trick :lol:

Anyway, just another point to prove what we have allready said but, if the environment was really the issue why have fuel for off road use available at a cheaper rate? to go in vehicles with no MOT emmissions tests? and why are two stroke motorcycles imported from china in their millions when two stroke cars are banned on environmental grounds?

surely these are all ways to toughen up the existing frame work without taxing us all to death!

If the fuel costs more the goods cost more and everyone has to work harder to stay out of the workhouse, this often means more driving to get to more work hence more polution, its viciuos circle!

jace
12-11-2007, 14:49
i believe all spin on the enviroment is just lot hot air designed to make us swallow nuclear energy and tax rises without creating to much fuss it doesent ring true,even though i get my fuel cheaper so dont get hit that way evrytime i buy something its price has gone up because poor fella delivering its costs gone up if it keeps happening the econemy will be in worse condition an no one be able to find jobs again

(RIP) PLANK
12-11-2007, 17:06
exactly jace inflation by the back door to make up for ridiculous housing prices!

price increases and excuses (feel free to add to the list!):

timber - storms in the pacific
scrap metal - chaina buying it all
gas- supply shortages need to buy from abroad (despite Russians giving it to us for free, or even paying us to take it!)
electricity - all sorts of reasons
veg oil - demand for it as a fuel?
food - bad storms earlier in the year

bigjim
12-11-2007, 18:06
Jim am i gettting this right US Nationals in the UK getting half price fuel for use on UK roads?
yep price we pay for US protection, i dont care much but i am jellous. they still pay our road tax which thet squeel about? and our MOT which they swear about, how about $3.75 for an MOT ( in some states)? makes you sick dont it :!: cheap grub from there naffi shops and i cant buy any of it :twisted: when you see the US dream you wonder what these uk MP's spend our taxes on :?: :?: :?: :?:

jace
12-11-2007, 18:31
scrap is mental people been nickin the copper cabling used for railway signal etc network rail hidding cammeras everywhere to try catch em!

(RIP) PLANK
12-11-2007, 21:16
well i dont want to get into politics too deeply or offend anyone, but protection from what? Aren't we supposed to be part of 'Europe' which as one nation has to be the most powerfull country on the planet? or am i missing simething about the benefits of being a 'new european' all we seem to get so far is the bad bits! and none of the good

It is imoral though everyone using vehicles on UK roads should pay UK duty, it is double standards of the worst kind!

Tubbs
12-11-2007, 22:17
right 16 pages 256 posts and still we dont know if to use veg oil or not :lol: :lol: :wink: :!: so do we use it or not :!: :!:

jace
12-11-2007, 22:26
people are using it without any probs but sure read the zd3.0 engines pump doesent like it have seen on other forums landrovers,transits,4.2 patrols all running coping well on it!

(RIP) PLANK
12-11-2007, 23:42
I thnk the answer is a firm 'maybe' it seems savings are small and the oild dilution is if nothing else a real issue!

think of an oil change with god quality oil and decent filter diy labour cost approx £35-£45 ?

save £between £5 and £10 a week for you average person and then after 3 months another oil change, which about halves, or even wipes out the saving, and thats if there are no other problems!

Its just one more thing to take us all off what we should be doing, protesting about the cost of real fuel for out vehicles!

jace
12-11-2007, 23:58
support these guys coz there trying to get such action off ground even just a keep up good work will let them know there not alone
http://www.transaction-2007.com/

bigjim
13-11-2007, 20:35
well i dont want to get into politics too deeply or offend anyone, but protection from what? Aren't we supposed to be part of 'Europe' which as one nation has to be the most powerfull country on the planet? or am i missing simething about the benefits of being a 'new european' all we seem to get so far is the bad bits! and none of the good

It is imoral though everyone using vehicles on UK roads should pay UK duty, it is double standards of the worst kind!dont wont to go therebut our salvation if it came to it would not be found in europe anyway more about vegie oil or is it exhausted now????? :lol:

(RIP) PLANK
13-11-2007, 20:49
salvation from who? but agreed lets not go further!

and no if veg oil was exhausted we would be able to smell chips :lol: :lol:

bigjim
13-11-2007, 20:57
salvation from who? but agreed lets not go further!

and no if veg oil was exhausted we would be able to smell chips :lol: :lol:
in danger of going political mate :?: what chips :?:

Jocky
18-11-2007, 10:44
Looked at price of 3ltrs in tesco yesterday and its £2.20. It will soon be same price as diesel -rotfl-

105.9p this is getting out of hand.

In next few days I'm going to have to drive about 800 miles, will need a bankloan to pay for it :evil:

Terranosaurus
18-11-2007, 10:54
I've found that 3ltrs in Co-op is still £1.89, everywhere else is about the £2.20 mark - strange as Co-op are usually a bit pricey on everything.

jims-terrano
18-11-2007, 11:40
OK all the answers have got lost somewhere.

If I start sticking a few bottles of veg oil in then top up with diesel what are my risks?

Jim T

Jocky
18-11-2007, 12:21
I'm tempted to stick some in mine 8O Went to Tesco's this morning and the selves were empty :roll: looks like someone had the same idea.

I was going to stick 9ltrs in on top of 3/4 of a tank

Will call in again Tomorrow.

Did someone say rapeseed was the best? as tesco's veg oil is rapeseed I think?

:smile:

bigjim
18-11-2007, 16:54
I'm tempted to stick some in mine 8O Went to Tesco's this morning and the selves were empty :roll: looks like someone had the same idea.

I was going to stick 9ltrs in on top of 3/4 of a tank

Will call in again Tomorrow.

Did someone say rapeseed was the best? as tesco's veg oil is rapeseed I think?

:smile:Rapeseed is best because of viscosity but tesco's pure vegie oil will do :?: works ok in mine 8)

jace
18-11-2007, 17:08
if theres few off you local to each other has anyone got makro/batleys acount get yerselfs bitove co op going getting bigger drums must work out cheaper