12v only [Archive] - :::.Nissan 4x4 Owners Club.:::

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 12:49

Any 12v caravaners on here? we're contemplating going to a "non mains" site over easter (about the only one thats got space :( )

What kit, apart from a generator, is recomended ? anyone using solar? how on earth do you make a humble 12v liesure battery last 4 days ?

cheers

Thomas-the-Terrano2

31-03-2009, 13:01

dont use blown heating, or colour tv.

second battery?

poppypiesdad

31-03-2009, 13:23

split charge system so when you go out for the day the other battery charges ???

davemud

31-03-2009, 13:53

HI ya
I have a 4x2 soler Panel on the roof of the caravan Fixed the panel to some upvc strips.
then used silicone to fix to the roof The wire goes in the the roof light while traveling
and the direct in the battery box out side while on site.
Its an 18w job with separate charge controller and 110amp leisure batter,
Been looking to change all the caravan lighting to LED but cant justify the cost yet.

I also have dual charge system on the Patrol second battery fitted in the engine bay
thats a yellow top Optima, with some extension cables to connect the car to the van
when on site.

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 17:26

Thanks folks. Both options intrigue me.

On the solar panels, just how much do they boost/provide?

The split charge seems intriguing but not something I know anything at all about. Research needed ! any good links/guidance around?

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 17:47

Hmmm...this thread seems to evidence my gut feeling (and initial math :confused: ) regarding solar power

(RIP) PLANK

31-03-2009, 18:15

Dave, I spend quite long periods living in carvans with no mains, 6 weeks is failry common the longest straight stretch about 3 years!

I have never had muh success with solar panels, as the size needed to maintain a decent wattage to the battery is very exspensive, yo woul have to spend hundreds to keep up with the consumption of blown heating, tv etc etc, and have more than one storage battery. They are OK for maintaineing charge in a stored caravan, but i dont have much success even with that. I do have a few solar panels I use for keeping electric fence batteries topped up and the difference in time between charges is minimal.

As 'TTT' (with that do as a short version?) has sugested our best option is to cut down on your consumption, i e no use of blow air just gas, no tv etc. I have generators the bestone i have found is a little 650 watt wolf, when using it a couple of hours each evening to charge the battery via he zig and run a small dvd player it runs for about 14 hours on a tank of fuel so is very economical.

as for split chargng, i do it with a smartcom relay (see towsure) and use this to charge a second battery with quick release teminals. But to be honest if you can get away wih using a small generator a couple of hours a day, you wont need one. I use 2 or 3 hook up leads and put the generator as far away for the caravans as possible and it works well for me.

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 18:30

Thanks Plank, I was considering a gene but not too sure, a lot of the sites we go on have a strict no generator rule.

The split system seems a good scheme I'm starting to think along the lines of a spare leisure battery in the boot (we've plenty of carrying capacity, weight and volume)with a split feed (I've got a spare split charge relay from an old towbar installation) feeding to the boot to charge it up then swap them around once the one in the caravan goes flat.

Not too sure what the current draw (ie the wire needed) would be.

I cant see how that wouldnt work ok. Not very sophisticated but should do the trick :confused:

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 18:40

I seem to be finding answers fairly easy on this one ....I must be wrong :confused:

I reckon I should wire it so the second battery is in the boot, in parallel to the car battery and charging system, but the split charge relay making/breaking the second via the ignition.

This will make the charging system think it just has one seriously big battery on board and regulate appropriately.

The current sent to the back/spare shouldnt usually exceed 16amps at any time.

Will there be any load to worry about on the second on start up? I see it as a bit like the caravan on the back (electric load wise that is ;) )

Does that sound sensible to those in the know :nenau or anyone for that matter :lol

cheers.

zippy656

31-03-2009, 18:41

if i remember right, the have to be both the same size,, other wize the smaller could get boiled as the bigger one is still getting charged up.

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 18:46

Good point I can see the logic in that one but I am now (genuinely) confused.

What I worked out is basically the same as a caravan with the split charge going out through the tow socket to the van. I'll just have the battery via that socket into the boot of the car.

In fact.............is there any reason I cant come off my existing split charge relay which is in the back of the car ???????

confused yet..........you soon will be :thumbs:augie

zippy656

31-03-2009, 18:51

ooh makes sence that. if you can pull teh cables back inside so you can plug a battery box in, then back outside the the caravan..

maybe that would work the. after all. no one has matched battryes in car and caravan.

poppypiesdad

31-03-2009, 19:01

How about this

http://www.rawcomponents.co.uk/split-charge-kits/80-120-amp-12v-split-charge-relay-kit-1.html

seems to have all the kit you need

Never heard of the batteries having to be the same size

but found this as well

http://www.kampenwagen.co.uk/Split%20Charge.htm

and this

http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/Sund001/SplitCharge01.htm

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 19:08

Thanks for that Ive just been perusing the raw site :thumbs that kit's the poshest one! I was looking way down the range :D

For my use one of the non intelligent ones would be fine and I've already got most of the bits sitting in the shed..........this project is getting tempting :cool:

However I'm beginning to wonder if a manual switch activating the relay to the rear would be a good option to avoid the problems of drawing on the leisure battery amongst other things.

ssteve

31-03-2009, 19:10

if i remember right, the have to be both the same size,, other wize the smaller could get boiled as the bigger one is still getting charged up.

the batterys will only take the charge they need irrespective of capacity
ssteve

poppypiesdad

31-03-2009, 19:15

Forget the first link
look here

http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Charge.asp

much cheaper

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 19:15

Thanks Steve. How about the other way, if an ignition switched relay is in place surely the liesure battery will contribute to cranking the engine which cant be good !!!!!!!!!!!!

zippy656

31-03-2009, 19:16

:thumbs thats good then..

Terranosaurus

31-03-2009, 19:16

the batterys will only take the charge they need irrespective of capacity
ssteve

Like the man says.

Only need to be matched batteries if you are going to leave them connected whilst not charging as the better one may then discharge through the lesser one but with a split charge no problem at all.

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 19:18

Not a problem T, the relay will "disconnect" them either ignition or manual ly switched :thumbs on my set up...hopefully :D

zippy656

31-03-2009, 19:18

:thumbs thats good then..

:thumbs thats good then.

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 19:18

Forget the first link
look here

http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Charge.asp

much cheaper

Thanks :thumbs hadnt seen that one

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 19:26

(RIP) PLANK

31-03-2009, 19:28

to avoid all the potential 'issues' both real and products of our own anxiety, I use the smart com relay! it trakes away all your potential issues regarding charging! and they work very well for around £13 I think cant be bad.

http://www.towsure.com/product/2973-Self-Switching_Combination_Relay_Wiring_Kit

you can also get a plastic battery mounting box and the quick release terminals in the smae place :thumbs

but to be honest for a weekend you normal leisure battery should be more than enough!

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 19:33

Thanks Plank, that looks good :thumbs

Youre right we would probably survive for one weekend on one battery but the realisation that theres CL sites for £4 a night which we prefer , near to "grockles" sites that are £20+ a night in an area we love ;)

I can feel a loonnnggg stay coming on :thumbs

Terranosaurus

31-03-2009, 19:37

and looking at their instructions the penny has dropped, the 12v bulb lit :doh

I've been missing the blindingly obvious.

To trigger the relay the feed or trigger voltage is taken from the back of the alternator. ie theres only 12v there once its running so the leisure battery doesnt "join in" until theres juice available for it irrelevant of the current drawn during cranking over/starting ............:doh :jump

Maplins tomorrow...........................:thumbs

But as soon as you turn the ignition on there is voltage at the alternator. Alternators are not self starting they require exciting. The good news is though that as you crank the engine over the voltage drop should be sufficient to drop the relay so you won't pull big currents under cranking - that said I have found that if I flatten the primary batery on my van that it blows the split charge fuse when I try to start it - presumably it is pulling from the secondary battery.

On the Terrano I have 2 batteries but they are linked using a big relay 180A so that I can run high currents in either direction but that is a totally different set up. The installation is temporary at the moment I am awaiting the trial model of a new high current split charge relay that I will be testing.

Terranosaurus

31-03-2009, 19:40

Forget the first link
look here

http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Charge.asp

much cheaper

Much cheaper but just a relay not voltage sensing - you're paying a lot of money with X-eng for (anything) a few bits of wire that attach to te relay they will sell you separately.

(RIP) PLANK

31-03-2009, 19:51

or just take a fully charged spare battery with you and a battery charger, when you frst one is flat, throw your self on the mercy of the site owners for a recharge, job done :thumbs

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 20:34

I don't know if you were joking Plank but that had crossed my mind :lol

I'm going to pursue this 12v business it'll keep me out of a certain amount of bother ;)

ssteve

31-03-2009, 21:00

:thumbs thats good then.
meaning?????
ssteve

ssteve

31-03-2009, 21:06

But as soon as you turn the ignition on there is voltage at the alternator. Alternators are not self starting they require exciting. The good news is though that as you crank the engine over the voltage drop should be sufficient to drop the relay so you won't pull big currents under cranking - that said I have found that if I flatten the primary batery on my van that it blows the split charge fuse when I try to start it - presumably it is pulling from the secondary battery.

On the Terrano I have 2 batteries but they are linked using a big relay 180A so that I can run high currents in either direction but that is a totally different set up. The installation is temporary at the moment I am awaiting the trial model of a new high current split charge relay that I will be testing.

afaik (most) alternators are self exciting,dynamo's are not (rb 340's etc)
ssteve

zippy656

31-03-2009, 21:13

the batterys will only take the charge they need irrespective of capacity
ssteve

meaning?????
ssteve

meaning this mate..

Damian Strudley

31-03-2009, 21:25

If you want any cheap solar gear or camping bits Maplin electronics have got a sale on at present some good bits quite cheap :thumb2

zippy656

31-03-2009, 21:35

If you want any cheap solar gear or camping bits Maplin electronics have got a sale on at present some good bits quite cheap :thumb2

wonder if they get LED lights i want cheaper at the mo..
off to look

(RIP) PLANK

31-03-2009, 22:42

i dont know if its just me but i find led lights not suitable to read a book by, they dont seem to be a good quailty of light, what does everyone aelse think?

willow

31-03-2009, 22:52

i dont know if its just me but i find led lights not suitable to read a book by, they dont seem to be a good quailty of light, what does everyone aelse think?

Too dim:thumbs

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 22:57

TBH I cant see the point in trying to read by them :nenau

Good bright white light.....lets start a campaign ;)

tezzer

31-03-2009, 23:04

i reckon 110amp battery + 240volt inverter + decent battery charger~~connect inverter to battery, plug in battery charger, bingo, battery charges itself. :clap :nenau

tezzer

Deleted account DD

31-03-2009, 23:06

almost but not quite like perpetual motion :augie:)

(RIP) PLANK

01-04-2009, 12:05

Willow, and Dave d I agree the led lights are not good, they dont seem yellow like a dim normal bulb though and the 'whitness' of their light tricks you into thnking they are better than they are, but I wouldnt try and use one as a reading light again.

People are selling led replacments for the reading light bulbs in caravans and I dont think i would bother trying them at all!

I like Tezzers idea, and a benefit would be, -you could keep your hands warm on the invertor while the battery charged istself, brilliant, I am convinced, I wil have to put an invertor on my next letter to Santa as i believe in him too :lol

(RIP) PLANK

13-04-2009, 19:33

I have just finished 10 nights in our caravan with a couple of hours each evening watching portable dvd player powered from the 12v system fomr the leisure battery, with no charging the LED indicatoor on the panel was still on green this morning!

I have no idea of the amps of the battery as my daughter bought it in france about 18 months ago and i have not really looked at it to find out, but i wouldn't thingk it is anyhting special.

Deleted account DD

13-04-2009, 19:37

tezzer

13-04-2009, 19:52

buy a 240 inverter. :clap

tezzer

Deleted account DD

13-04-2009, 19:55

Hmmm........she's been spoilt, a terrano would make an effective 24v generator but I'm not convinced its the answer :)

Jocky

13-04-2009, 20:17

buy a 240 inverter. :clap

tezzer

need an expensive one to run the straightners:doh:lol

Told her just to let here hair go back to its natural state:eek: reminded her she did not have straight hair when I met her:naughty:naughty:naughty :lol didn't work BTW

Deleted account DD

13-04-2009, 20:24

didn't work BTW

Suprise suprise :lol:lol:lol

(RIP) PLANK

13-04-2009, 20:38

Good as :thumbs I am still looking at the split charge system, I actually have a split charge relay and suitable cable + battery clamps in the shed ! all I need is a 2nd leisure battery.

However my missus has come up with one point that kicks all of this 12v stuff into touch...................

How will her hair-drier and straighteners work :confused:

go on then ...........;)

this is the trouble when you start spoiling them, my mrs has been getting mouthy since i bought her that mangle, I should have left her bashing washing on rocks by the canal :thumbs

Paul

13-04-2009, 21:02

this is the trouble when you start spoiling them, my mrs has been getting mouthy since i bought her that mangle, I should have left her bashing washing on rocks by the canal :thumbs
Didn't know you was from round here..:rolleyes: Still got your flatcap?
If not you lend you mine..:D:D

wildbri

14-04-2009, 14:11

My pal has just uprated the inverter in his motorhome..... so his wife can do the ironing when
the are wild camping!! now thats what I call spoiling her bri

(RIP) PLANK

14-04-2009, 19:56

NO i need a new flat cap but i am waiting for the sales ;)

wildbri

14-04-2009, 21:06

Hi daved, I have just read your thread from the beginning. If you have the white 12s socket fitted to your terrano then you will have a charger relay fitted. I only had the 12n but it easy to fit 12s. The relay is electronic it is just fed from the battery pos terminal via a fuse.
the 12s charger pin is only supplied when the engine is running infact there is a pause of some seconds before this supply starts. my caravan is an older one, I have caravan supplied from battery in van our I can switch to car battery use when cable is plugged in via the 12s socket, this is with the ign off, so you do have the use of two batteries. When the engine starts the caravan battery is charged along with the car battery and a supply to the fridge to keep it cool on the go. I have put a socket in the back of the car to supply my coolbox this supply come from the ign on supply to the 12s so I suppose I could connect this to a battery in the boot, this would mean that the alternator would be charging three batteries at once.... if connected whist towing so probably better to charge the spare battery when solo, or do as we do and always use electric hookup, some CLs have them. regards bri