PDA

View Full Version : smoky deisel resulting in soot on the caravan


zippy
19-03-2009, 22:09
Hi All

I have had a problem with soot from the exhaust dirtying the front of the caravan when towing.

I found the quote below on another internet forum from a well respected person (who has now sadly passed away). I hope that it helps if any of you are having this problem. Also if you have anything to add then feel free.

Regards
Lee


I believe the Terrano 2.7TD engine is Euro 2 - so low tech is an apt description.

The engine pre-dates the really accurate diesel fuel injection in Euro 3 and 4 - so it will tend to over-fuel under load and smoke quite badly.

The engine is a common rail diesel, but working at a much lower pressure than Euro 3 or 4, and it also misses out on the much better (finer) fuel spray pattern from the newer Euro engines - low-pressure and big droplets means a smoky burn at the best of times.

What can you do to fix it?

1. You could have the engine tuned by a true diesel specialist - so that it doesn't over-fuel under load - and that would certainly help to minimise any smoke.

2. You could have the fuel injectors cleaned (professionally or by using a fuel like V-Power or with an after market additive). One of the reasons for diesel smoke is the poor spray pattern from the early generation injectors - but if they are dirty, then they'll cause really massive amounts of smoke. Clean injectors mean the best possible smoke performance.

3. You could fit an exhaust deflector - but unless that deflector routes the exhaust into a totally different part of the under-body airflow, it won't do anything.

4. You could use a fuel that doesn't smoke as much as conventional pump diesel. When normal diesel fuel burns, the straight chain hydrocarbons burn first followed by the branched and ring compounds - these other compounds only partly burn during the combustion process and that's the smoke you see. The performance diesel fuels, like Shell V-Power and others, are mainly straight chain hydrocarbons and completely burn during the combustion process - on an engine such as yours, you should see 50% less smoke or better.

But Shell V-Power, BP Ultimate, Total Excellium, etc., are more expensive than normal pump diesel - and you won't see the improved fuel consumption benefit (5% or so) that the driver of a Euro 4 engined car would also experience - just the smoke removal.

5. You could think about using a fuel with a higher percentage of bio-diesel. This has good lubrication properties (and will help keep the high pressure pump and injectors in tip-top condition) but more importantly, bio-diesel is a fuel composed of straight chains, so it burns really well - and adding 10% bio-diesel will reduce smoke by almost 10%

You need to research and consider the impact of this - and get professional advice on whether it's OK for use in the Terrano - but running on 50% bio-diesel should reduce the smoke by at least 40%

And if the engine and other parts of the fuel system are compatible with 100% bio-diesel, and if you have a supply local to you (Green co-operative or similar) then burning 100% bio-diesel in the spring to autumn (and 50% in the winter) should make you smoke free

6. Using a Cetane improver like Millers really won't help that much with smoke. True it will boost the Cetane rating of the fuel (which the Terrano can't benefit from) but it doesn't significantly affect the burn process for the smoke forming compounds in normal diesel - so I'd leave this one to last.

Robert

Thomas-the-Terrano2
19-03-2009, 22:16
some good points, though i found it varied from trip to trip with my t2, maybe even
the brand of fuel used. many owners opted for curved or deflecting exhaust tips to
direct the soot/smoke more downwards or towardsthe kerb. failing that cover that
part of caravan with cling film, and remove on arrival at site for a cleaner van!!!

BigBlack
19-03-2009, 22:35
Ive got this problem!!! :( - and its a right pain in the ar*e to clean of afterwards!!! Strangley enough more with the LWB then the SWB... maybe I'll try clean the injectors as mentioned above.
Anyone got a deflector fitted to the exhaust, looked at a nice chrome one at Halfords the other day... but if they don't make any differance I'll save my pennies! :augie

JonathanM
23-03-2009, 23:54
Having washed the 'van at the weekend then anything that reduces the soot I'll go for!


My 'van has been towed by T2 and X-trail since its last wash, so both sides were soot covered!

I see Halfrauds have some chrome exhaust pipe "finishers" with a downward angle, and I've seen this tip on a couple of internet forums so will probably go down that line.


BTW the clingfilm tip, I've read somewhere that this isn't a good idea, certainly on windows as it may cause the acrylic to "craze" over.

Jocky
24-03-2009, 00:22
I found that 2 hiclones in my T2 got rid of the soot:clap better combustion:D

Who said they don't work:nenau

Where's the snake oil brigade:eek:

:D

lacroupade
24-03-2009, 09:13
As an aside, its soot contamination that makes the oil on these trucks go black so quickly - and soot, believe it or not, can cause significant engine wear, which is another good reason for regular oil changes....

Jocky
24-03-2009, 11:52
Another reason to block the EGR if you've got one:eek:

Who's clever idea was it to put soot laden exhaust gases back into the cylinders:nenau fools:doh:sly

:augie

lacroupade
24-03-2009, 12:43
Another reason to block the EGR if you've got one:eek:

Who's clever idea was it to put soot laden exhaust gases back into the cylinders:nenau fools:doh:sly

:augie

probably someone with lung cancer! don't mean that flippantly!

the issue as I understand it is that soot is a by-product of an incomplete burn, so anything that increases the chances of more effective combustion should help.

Personally I favour my regular dose of 120ml of acetone in every tank, and then theres Jocky the Hiclone Ranger :augie

extreme-4x4
24-03-2009, 12:51
i suppose the bast cure is to ditch the caravan ....:sly

lacroupade
24-03-2009, 12:53
i suppose the bast cure is to ditch the caravan ....:sly

LMFAO! Do you know how hard I was trying not to use that one!
:jump

extreme-4x4
24-03-2009, 13:02
road hoggs:D:D:lol:lol

Jocky
24-03-2009, 13:45
and then theres Jocky the Hiclone Ranger :augie:sly

Don't knock till you've tried it as I'm not the only one:clap

1st time I took it for MOT after fitting hiclones the guy thought his machine was playing up, told him about hiclones and he asked me to come back next day with them out, I did and the readings went back up to what they should have been, refitted them as garage was quiet and readings dropped:bow guy was impressed and got some for his Shogun:thumb2

shark1e had the samething when he had his Mistral.

Also seen them in action on a test rig with smoke a few years back and it was impressive to see the difference with and without

Got 2 for my Trol and guess what:lol

Getting back on topic, just buy a tailpipe extension that diverts the crap to the road

:thumb2

mont
24-03-2009, 17:46
Hi ,I can confirm what jocky says is true and not the snake oil effect. I too had soot on the back corner of van until i fitted hyclones,now as clean as when started off.

extreme-4x4
24-03-2009, 18:09
LMFAO! Do you know how hard I was trying not to use that one!
:jump


oh yes.... i held out as long as i could :cool:

zippy656
24-03-2009, 18:16
hyclones, where do thay fit, befor or after the intercooler?

Jocky
24-03-2009, 19:24
hyclones, where do thay fit, befor or after the intercooler?

On a T2, 75mm after the MAF and 58mm after the intercooler.


:)

lacroupade
24-03-2009, 20:35
On a T2, 75mm after the MAF and 58mm after the intercooler.


:)

Lets accept for a minute that these things might have some effect; but why the one after the MAF? You can't seriously be suggesting that this 'swirling air' effect can possibly persist, firstly through a turbo vane running at 900 miles an hour, then through the multiple pathways of the intercooler matrix and out the other end again? No way Jose.....

I could be tempted to think the one on the inlet manifold might possibly have a moderate effect, but not the first one...

extreme-4x4
24-03-2009, 20:57
ah yeah ...
but you could argue the intercooler would slow the air flow down.
yet we all know it makes the air colder / denser and more efficient:confused:

but then my roof scoop shoves loads of air in at 70-80mph, but measured against the turbo sucking .it don't compare at all

i have tried several experiments with this.

even considered running air con over the intercooler


if it does work it could possibly be the hi clone puts controlled air flow into the turbo as apposed to confused air flow as standard making the turbo more efficient

lacroupade
24-03-2009, 21:52
I reckon it will just always be one of lifes great mysteries, like my acetone! :lol:lol

Jocky
24-03-2009, 22:04
I reckon it will just always be one of lifes great mysteries, like my acetone! :lol:lol

How long do you reckon the acetone stays in your tank:lol:thumbs

cssuk
19-04-2009, 22:00
get a diesel lpg kit 20-25% more oomph no smoke cheaper to run to boot yes i did say lpg yes i know its a diesel try it, kits cost 500 a lot of hgvs have these now

zippy656
19-04-2009, 22:07
so tell us more then

lacroupade
19-04-2009, 23:13
How long do you reckon the acetone stays in your tank:lol:thumbs

I'm assured by my industrial chemist friends that it breaks down and does its work as soon as its dropped into the diesel - I mean its been very common to add methanol to petrol and that doesn't go anywhere either :)

zippy656
20-04-2009, 05:56
whats the acetone do then?

Deleted account DD
20-04-2009, 07:35
On a T2, 75mm after the MAF and 58mm after the intercooler.


:)

Emmisions dropped on mine too. Was dubious but they did :thumb2

On the size thing, the hiclones come in different sizes ( obviously :doh ) so if you cant get hold of exactly the right size or are offered one cheaper , a couple of mil smaller is ok. Cant remember which one but one of mine was just that ( 56mm seems to ring a bell) and it made no difference whatsoever. Tabs still lock and it still fits the gap. Neither had shifted when I had the intercooler off the other week. :thumb2

Deleted account DD
20-04-2009, 07:35
whats the acetone do then?

I was wondering that......................in English please :bow

lacroupade
20-04-2009, 10:25
I was wondering that......................in English please :bow

Its too complicated - you wouldn't understand :D

seriously, its quicker to google it lads. its one of those things (like Hiclones) that you believe or don't...all I know is it works for me, and two industrial chemists (one ex-oil company) have confirmed to me that it improves the combustion of diesel (or SVO) by doing stuff at molecular level...see, I've lost MYSELF now! All I can tell you is I've been putting it in T2s now for around 120k miles with no ill-effects and a very modest improvement. I don't pretend its astonishing, its not, but its detectable - that works for me!

Here, knock yourselves out...
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

Deleted account DD
20-04-2009, 12:24
V Interesting link.

Having never gone shopping for it in the past where in the UK can we buy it ?

What proportion do you work at that gives the best balance of performance/mileage/economy of use ? mentions very small amounts on the website)

:confused:

zippy656
20-04-2009, 12:30
so lacroupade how much do yo uput in when you add 60lts to your tank?


and what do you get back mileages wise

lacroupade
20-04-2009, 14:11
so lacroupade how much do yo uput in when you add 60lts to your tank?


and what do you get back mileages wise

what it says in the link :doh LOL

about 120ml per refill. I'd say it has the same broad effect as Millers Diesel Plus at a tenth of the price.

zippy656
20-04-2009, 14:25
Zippys Note To Self: put thinking head on before typing...
: read posts properly...

ok see... i must start to read it all then !

lacroupade
20-04-2009, 15:22
Zippys Note To Self: put thinking head on before typing...
: read posts properly...

ok see... i must start to read it all then !

:doh:doh:doh:doh

Deleted account DD
20-04-2009, 19:38
So where can we buy 100% acetone over here ? :nenau

lacroupade
20-04-2009, 20:08
So where can we buy 100% acetone over here ? :nenau

Lots of places - eBay sellers can ship 5 litres I think, but not cheap at around £20, fibreglass suppliers sell it much more cheaply (its a commonly used chemical in that industry for cleaning), or Makeitfit tells me he uses it a lot in his kitchen fitting....so its probably a commonly available solvent cleaner from lots of other places.....or you can drive to Calais on a day trip and buy gallons of it from BricoDepot for a few euros.

Bit one word of warning - its apparently a great paint stripper although I've not tried it...

Deleted account DD
20-04-2009, 20:14
Ta :thumb2 I've seen it all over the place in industry but I've never seen 100% for private use.

I'm contemplating giving it a go because the science does seem to make sense.

lacroupade
20-04-2009, 20:17
Ta :thumb2 I've seen it all over the place in industry but I've never seen 100% for private use.

I'm contemplating giving it a go because the science does seem to make sense.

just make sure it doesn't say nail varnish remover on the container!

but the 99.9% stuff is what you need. and don't expect miracles.....the benefit is pretty minor but I can tell the difference and it does add a little bit of oomph...