Another Tale of Terrano Starting Woes

[nimbinbid]

Hi all,

sad to say I only stop in here when something needs fixing, but there you go.

For the last few months m 1999 TDi would intermittently start by key, with no sign of life at other times. Changed the switch behind the ignition barrel. went well for a while, then the problem surfaced again. We've just gone through some record flooding here in Aus and it's still raining, so was happy to have the local workshop look at the problem.

A new battery and starter motor later, imagine my disappointment at having to clutch start the old girl backwards out of the workshop. At least I also had the option of a lead from the pos terminal straight to starter. Not ideal, but great when there's no convenient slope to [park on.

Got a break from a neighbor today. He's a retired electrician and was able to trace the fault back to the ignition switch connector behind the barrel. Jiggling the connector while the key is in with ignition on seems to do the trick. Packed up at that point when the rain set back in. Back to work tomorrow, all going well with the over night rain and was wondering if I should look for another switch online or assume that just crimping the spade connectors might do the trick?

[solarman216]

If you have changed the switch for a new one then check the crimp terminals on the wires, if it was a used switch then it probably has the same fault as the old one, new switches can be had on Ebay very cheap, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for getting back so quick.

Switch was new from ebay, guess I have to trust that it's ok. Would have checked crimps on connector yesterday but for the rain. 4 to 12 inches later, it's still raining. Hopefully I'll be able to get onto this again in a few days. Sure would be great to get this issue sorted with a simple fix like crimping the terminals. cheers, Roy

[Banshee]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for getting back so quick.

Switch was new from ebay, guess I have to trust that it's ok. Would have checked crimps on connector yesterday but for the rain. 4 to 12 inches later, it's still raining. Hopefully I'll be able to get onto this again in a few days. Sure would be great to get this issue sorted with a simple fix like crimping the terminals. cheers, Roy

You not got windows and doors on the rig? :lol

[Fez_uk]

The new switches on ebay are crap I think.

My friends failed within months, although he suspected it might of got damp. Anyway worth keeping in mind.

[nimbinbid]

Hi there,

I mucked around with the connector today (yay, the sun's out again) without improvement and am concerned that I might make things worse and end up stranded, so I've decided to book an auto electrician. Thankfully, after two 1 in 100 year floods within a month, there are still some auto electricians in business. Feels somewhat defeatist but what with second guessing the current condition of my eBay switch I feel ready to have another mind look at it. Thanks for the suggestions etc.

[solarman216]

You can prove the switch by pulling the connectors off the back and using link wires to simulate the switch operation, if it turns the motor without fault then it is the switch if it still plays about it is a connector some place else, if you want to know the wires to connect let me know and I will look at a switch tomorrow, you only need to connect power to the ignition and flash the start wire, the rest have no significance re the starter, make sure the key is in the barrel or NATS will complain, the ignition needs to be on as there is a relay between the switch and the starter, if you want to find the relay pull the wire off the starter then you will be able to hear the relay click, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Went to start the car today and it started no worries. Same again at the auto electrician, a half a dozen successful starts in succession before it started to play up again. Cheapest solution was to have a starter button installed.

Thanks for your suggestion Rick, unfortunately I had too many other jobs to catch up with over the weekend. Now I'm just glad to have it sorted. At least I hope it is, time will tell.

[nimbinbid]

Drove from auto electrician to work, about 40 ks, then around town. no probs, started fine. On the way home, while negotiating a landslip, the engine lost power. Between landslips I could change up to 3rd. The engine didn't give up but wouldn't rev out. Don't think there was any smoke or the smell of a burning clutch. couldn't just stop as I had a other vehicles following.

Got home the last 5 ks and can't see anything obviously wrong. Engine idles fine.

May be time to start a new thread.

[solarman216]

Mmmmm you should have a fault code for that, when was the last time the fuel filter was changed? restricted filter will not throw a code I would change it anyway then cut it open just to confirm, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Mil light is still lit from a brake switch issue. Hadn't been game to clear it in case the downloadable pin code didn't match up with my car.

In the meantime I've ordered a fuel filter and will report back once it's changed.

[solarman216]

Do the paper clip jobbie and clear the codes then drive the car till it faults again then read the codes via the paper clip, no need for pin codes, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Changed air and fuel filter this afternoon, but now getting heaps of white smoke. Got a bit obsessed with the priming pump, reasoning there must be air in the system, just another push on the primer. Seems as if the plastic primer itself has sprung a leak. Could be much worse, as the fuel filter spewed out semi solid chunks and possibly some got further down the system.

MIL light went off with the filter change and then would come and go depending on how poorly the engine idled. Will check for a fault code tomorrow.

[solarman216]

Loads white smoke !!!!! could be your injectors are suffering dirt, to check this remove the injector pipes and spin the engine over on the starter, if fuel spits out of the injector pipe connections then your injectors and pump are goosed, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Gasp!!!! Loads.

Do you mean disconnect the scavenger pipes or the feed pipes and will it entail removing the intercooler?

Weekend tomorrow, so weather permitting I'll have some more time. Thought the banjo bolt fuel filter might be worth checking first, if only because it's likely to be a less rain sensitive job. Given that the doors and windows still work, there's also a good chance of retrieving a fault code.

Who knows, she might yet live.

[solarman216]

Yes the feed pipes, to be sure they need to be right out of the way but do not bend them, yes intercooler off as well, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Just lost a more detailed post after clicking the quick post button. Our modern internet seems dodgier than than the old dial up variety.
Not the best angle, but I couldn't see anything squirting while I reached through the driver's window to turn the motor as I peered under the bonnet . Gave it a couple of go's. No squirting detected, but might be done better with 2 people as the areas around the injector connections were wetter than when I started.
How much diesel am I looking for? Is any too much?
Done for today - Roy

[solarman216]

The injectors in this situation only contain residual fuel, what you are looking for is air from the compression blowing the fuel out indicating the needle is not seating, it might only do it once or twice before all the fuel is gone, if this happens just top the injectors up again so that all have fuel to the top, yes 2 people are better as it will happen very quickly, any fuel movement from the injectors means they are bad, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Makes sense . Will look for a helper tomorrow.

[nimbinbid]

Couldn't see any thing blowing out from top of injectors. In fact there's still residual fuel. Checked banjo bolt, but no spring or filter to be found. Removed fuel filter, looks clean inside, diesel was clean too.

While priming fuel filter, noticed one of the scavenge pipes had come off and the metal stem was gurgling diesel as I pumped. Reconnected pipe and finished primping. By this time extra hands were gone. so unable to redo the injector test in case it made a difference.

Any thoughts, where to from here? Roy

[solarman216]

No nothing you have done will have made any difference to the injector test, the fact they still had fuel in them is good, you still need to remove the pressure regulator valve at the front of the pump, it has a round head with two flats on it, 10mm open end spanner fits but you may not get it out with one if it is at the wrong angle, but without checking the piston in this valve is perfectly free you cannot go further, Rick

[solarman216]

This is what you are looking for, the spring ring goes in last to stop the piston falling out, to remove it you will need to make a small hook from something like welding wire, Rick

[nimbinbid]

First week as a pensioner and dementia seems to have struck already. Can't for the life of me locate this valve. Does the manifold need to be removed to access it? Which is the front of the pump? Had imagined it was the part that faced the front of the car, which appears to be wrong.

Replaced splitting scavenge pipes and rear bushes instead, then got on with some gardening for my sanity. Roy

[solarman216]

It is right at the front of the pump next to the flange that bolts the pump to the timing cover, from drivers position it is to the right of the fuel inlet pipe, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Removed battery and power steering pump.

Found it at last? Hidden under inlet fuel line. Removed 10mm bolt with rounded head and 2 flat sides from position in photo.

[nimbinbid]

Injector pump was replaced about 7 years ago.

All that came from opening is shown in photo. Have syringed fuel out but cannot see any sign of spring or piston. Have also fished around with hook with same result. Could this be a modified valve? Have provided close-up. Or am I looking in the wrong place.

I'm sure nothing got lost while I removed bolt. Roy

[solarman216]

If you look into the top hole in your pic you can see the spring, now turn it upside down and push a small screwdriver into the hole in the bottom it will contact a piston about 6mm in, gently push this piston which should move freely against the spring pressure and return again with no stickiness at all, any problems here and it will not run correctly, also although you have removed the return banjo I see no comment as to the orifice drilled into the side of the banjo bolt, it is very small and has to be completely clear, the valve in your pic and this orifice work together to stabilise the internal pump pressure, Rick

[solarman216]

Looking at your picture again the spring ring is protruding from the bottom making it easy for you to remove, however that is not its correct position, it should be pressed in flush, in the position it is in it will badly effect the pump pressure, but before you push it in I suggest you strip the 3 components out and check the piston and bore for scratches with a magnifying glass if any are found it will not be serviceable, this is what you should see, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Thanks Rick, that's cleared things up for me.

Valve is back in car overnight. Will give it a go tomorrow. Just like to add that the spring ring appears to be in there quite solidly, no movement noticed. Why is there a hook cut into bottom of ring? Any special technique for removal if ring proves stubborn?

Orifices in pump body clear. Noticed something metallic in bolt hole, assumed it was a ball bearing but must have been the spring. Appeared clean, though couldn't find magnifying glass at the time.

What's the verdict if this part proves to be defective? Your time is much appreciated. Roy

[solarman216]

If you pushed the piston against the spring and it moved freely with no sticking then it is probably OK but if it sticks at all then a replacement is the only option, the spring ring is split and the split is staggered so it keeps its shape when being pushed in, a pair of thin nosed pliers will pull it out, do not put the piston in without the spring, it will go in further than its normal working area and will get stuck and be very difficult to get out again, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Thanks for that information.

Today was a wipe out. Rained all day so I thought it best to leave the pump sealed. Tomorrow I've organized a ride into town to stock up on supplies. After that it's up to the weather as the car is sitting in my drive.

If this unit proves defective how easy might it be find a replacement? None on aussie eBay. Roy

[solarman216]

I have the one in my picture, it came out of a fly by wire 2.7 and is no good to me as I have a Patrol and although they look the same the orifices and spring pressure are different, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Good to know, mine's a 2.7 tdi, with Bosch pump.

[nimbinbid]

First up, it's a Bosch MAF. Does that mean IP and injectors are also Bosch?

Poked screwdriver in hole, piston moved freely but didn't attempt to fully compress spring. Removed the spring retaining clip with long nose pliers. Considering the force involved, it doesn't seem likely to have moved on its own, all of a sudden. Spring and spacer fell out easily. Inspected bore with illuminated magnify glass. No scoring that I can see. Inspected spacer and spring. Spacer fine, spring is a bit shiny right at top where it's flattened. Still, couldn't see any scoring though.

O-rings seem fine. Is it worth replacing them as a matter of course? Don't suppose there's a convenient kit available? Assuming it's good to go, what's the best way to get that retaining ring back in place and flush? Don't want to deform it. Must be a right pain to pull out with a hook and not scratch the bore.

Looks like the water p is beginning to weep. Think I'd like to be sure she's still a runner before I get on to that. Roy

[solarman216]

Yes it will be a Bosch pump, sounds like your valve is just fine, just reassemble it the spring ring pushes in easy with a pair of grips, a G cramp or a small vice, just make sure it is flush, now you need to check the return orifice is clear, it is around 0.03mm in diameter, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Return orifice? Where might that beauty be located?

0.03mm, will I even be able to see it? Roy

[nimbinbid]

Ok, think I've worked out what to do. Will a stream of fuel emerge if I just turn the motor over or does it have to be running?

Guess I'll see. Roy

[solarman216]

You should see a fine stream of fuel by just operating the primmer button on the fuel filter, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Only managed to assemble valve, reinsert and tighten today. Weather predicted to improve over the weekend, hope to make more progress.

If return valve is good is there anything else in that area to test? If not, I'm keen to reassemble everything and try running the truck again on the off chance that the offending issue has been rectified. Roy

[solarman216]

If the return valve orifice is good then as you say give it a run you may just have inadvertently solved the problem, Rick

[nimbinbid]

This is the return valve (I hope), minus the fuel return junction and three copper washers.

[nimbinbid]

Here's a view looking inside components.

Tried cleaning inside of cap nut (the thing on the right side of last photo) with air gun. Some crud remains, perhaps a soak in injector cleaner might help. The bolt has what appears to be a spacer from the last valve except this one shows no sign of wanting to move. Something can be heard sliding back and forth inside bolt.

Put bolt back in IP, leaving smallest orifice exposed. Pumped primer. Fuel exited around bolt thread but none from orifice. Can recheck with helper tomorrow in case my view wasn't all it could have been.

Not looking good so far. Any quick fixes available for these units? Roy

[solarman216]

Mmmmm not seen one like that before, but I would suggest that the shorter part is screwed into the pump with a copper washer then the banjo with washer each side then the cap nut, if you operate the primer pump before the banjo is fitted you should see fuel jet from the orifice, thus proving this is the correct way to fit it, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Good point, chasing down dropped copper washers may well have distracted my reinstallation attempt. Thx. Back to it tomorrow then. Roy

[nimbinbid]

Valve checks out fine. Pump primer and fuel comes out. Due to reach limitations, I couldn't observe while pumping at max power.

Satisfied with quantity of fuel emerging from orifice. I then removed the bolt, thinking I'd compare bolt against spanner size, as my fancy ratcheting ring spanner wouldn't grip. Naturally, the first copper washer slid off said bolt into the motor's twilight regions and I've been searching for it ever since.

Hmmm, not too many mozzie bites and no leeches, could have been worse I guess.

Carry on tomorrow. Roy

[nimbinbid]

Okay, back to where I started.

Started truck and she idled rough enough that I had to use the throttle to keep her running. MIL light stayed on the whole time she was running. Checked for a fault code when I noticed MIL light flashing before the paper clip had been removed. Strange. Code 55 = no fault. Not much use though.

Had to find the same washer 3 times in the end, kind of an ersatz Easter experience. At least there was was a nice bit of sun today. Roy

[solarman216]

I have found in the past that there are 2 kinds of fault code methods, 1 is bridge terminals and remove to clear codes the other is bridge and remove to read and bridge again to clear, Rick

[nimbinbid]

It was just an observation. Leaving the paper clip inserted made the MIL flash, thought it was strange since I haven't come across any mention of this.

Decided to try running the motor straight from a container of diesel, just waiting on fuel line. Meaning this project will have to go on hold till then. Don't want to open the fuel tank if I don't have too. I'm totally unprepared to deal with shorn bolts. Roy

[nimbinbid]

Hi there, hoping someone is still following this thread.

Finally got some fuel hose and started the truck from a jerry can. Had to work the throttle a bit before she settled down to a reasonable idle. Still smoking, though possibly not as bad as before.

Stopped and started the truck a few times during this time. The first time I switched off the ignition I noticed something like a clicking sound coming from the engine bay immediately afterwards. Subsequent on off cycles failed to replicate this sound. My imagination suggests a faulty metering injector, but there's no fault code.

Helpful suggestions appreciated. Roy

[solarman216]

Hi Roy yes I am still about, sounds like you need to remove the pick up from the tank and clean out the lines or better still replace them, be interested to see pics of the swirl pot in the tank when you get it out, do not worry about shearing the bolts just put it back with self tappers, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Thanks Rick. I'll get onto the tank next then. Pic to follow. Any suggestion about what best to seal the pick up unit to the tank? Our local motor factors are still recovering from the floods so I'll have to find something online. Roy

[solarman216]

The tank pic up is fitted with a rubber O ring if this in good order and the groove where it sits is rust free then all is good, if not then RTV silicon sealant is the way forward

[nimbinbid]

Hi again. Against my expectations the swirl chamber unit is clean. Good, but disappointing. Have attached photo anyway. Roy

[solarman216]

The way I understand it is with the remote fuel supply the motor runs fine but with the car fuel system it does not so between the tank and the filter there is a problem. Rick

[nimbinbid]

I wish.

It does run remotely, but not fine. There's still way too much white smoke.

Roy

[nimbinbid]

Previously, when running on the regular fuel system, the motor really struggled to idle and the MIL light would flash. Nowhere near as dramatic running IP from jerry can. No MIL light and it did eventually settle into an idle.

Once idling I removed the radiator cap looking for evidence of a blown head gasket. As I understand it , the thermostat needs to be open for air pressure to move from the block to the radiator. Had to stop then to get helper home before dark.

Ok Rick, I got a pic of some substance from inside the tank itself, straight below the pick up entry. Camera software playing up so lousy details. For all I know, it's just the 1/4 inch remains of black beetle and not at all related. Still have half a tank of diesel left and other than the previous find, it all looks good in there. Even drew off half a liter to let stand in a tall glass bottle. Unless water/diesel separation is best left for over night, that's looking good too.

Blew out the lines and then packed up. Severe thunderstorm missed us, but they're predicting rain until the 14th. Surely there'll be an opportunity to take this further before then.

Still don't feel any closer to solving this, but I'm done for now. Thanks again, Roy

[nimbinbid]

Image didn't attach to last post.

[solarman216]

If that is all there is of the black stuff then it is not an issue, if your lines are clear then the only think left is the fuel, is it known to be good or did you get it from a dubious place, Rick

[nimbinbid]

Fuel came from village servo, the only one in our area still in operation at the time. Although the service station (servo) also went under water, I was led to believe their tanks had been made flood proof after the 2017 floods. Haven't heard of any other locals experiencing fuel issues and the mower petrol worked fine.

Is there any way to test my fuel, or would you advise dumping the lot and starting over with a fresh load? The fuel I used to run remotely was also local and that still caused smoke, so yeah, could be the fuel. I'll ask around, there's got to be a garage within 100ks that didn't go under water. Roy

[nimbinbid]

Finally dry enough to work outside. Blew out return line from ip to tank, added fuel injection cleaner to jerry can mix and started her up. Settled down to a normal idle, but would smoke and splutter at all attempts to rev engine even when warm. No engine warning lights at any time.

Have noticed the buzzing/clicking noise from the engine bay, lasting 2 or 3 seconds after shut off, is now a regular feature. Could this be a solenoid running on? Once my driveway dries out I'll go for a run and see if pushing more injector cleaner through helps any. Open to suggestions. Roy

[solarman216]

It is fast looking like your IP is bad, but having said that most internal faults should show up a code, do you have a Nissan dealer near that you can take it in and put it on their diagnostic computer? Rick

[nimbinbid]

Local dealer 40 kms away still recovering from last flood. Too far to any beyond that.

Previously the engine light would register during misfires on acceleration, even if they weren't retained. Light works when you switch ignition on, so I guess it's OK. Might have to start this diagnosis over again from the basics, if and when our weather ever clears. Roy

[nimbinbid]

Found a reconditioned IP online for AU$2,300. Not many of these trucks left over here and parts have become difficult to source on this side of the continent. Might be the time to accept upgrading my daily drive. Roy

[solarman216]

Found a reconditioned IP online for AU$2,300. Not many of these trucks left over here and parts have become difficult to source on this side of the continent. Might be the time to accept upgrading my daily drive. Roy


Wow that sounds expensive, what is that in £ sterling? Rick

[nimbinbid]

According to https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=1&From=AUD&To=GBP, that would be 1,297.0534 British Pounds. Not a fortune and maybe even cheap as far as classic restoration projects go. Roy