Oh Dear... My T2 has upset the wife..

[Lazy-Ferret]

Looks like she may be ready to sign it's death warrant...

The car has more going wrong, than I have time to fix...

What with the leakoff pipes, then the Fuel pipe issues earlier in the year, then the brake issues, and the Aircon going while on holiday in Wales, the car has been on a short leash....

Today, coming back from Strumpshaw with the caravan on the back, and I lost all power on the M25, with torrential rain, and thunder and lightning going off all around. I managed to get onto the hard shoulder.

I looked for anything obvious, and got soaked, but could not see anything wrong. I got going again, but it was very hit and miss, and after a couple of miles she lost all power again.

I discovered that the water level was low, but the expansion tank was full.... I put a litre of water in to bring the radiator up, and managed to limp to Thurrock.

We filled up with fuel, and I checked the water again, and again there was a gap at the top of the rad... I put another 1/4 litre in and managed to get the car home.

I have no idea what is wrong with her, as the skies have been empting down, we had over 2" of rain in an hour.

So I have been told we will have to move all the holiday/ferret stuff over to Jiggley, and my car is in the dog house until I can convince Suz's the car is worthy again...

Couple of quick questions, regarding the fuel pipes.
I am thinking of ripping them out, and running new, front the back. I have never done a job like this, so will need to buy and learn how to use the tools etc. So, is it worth the hassle of running Copper, or just run a rubber pipe the whole way?
Secondly, I know the feed pipe is 6mm, and the return is 8mm, but is that inside or outside diameter?

[Lazy-Ferret]

Ohh.. and what size/thread are the unions?

[jims-terrano]

Yes inside diameter.

If running rubber there are no unions to worry about just use jubilee clips.

Have you checked for mayo in the oil cap?

Next would be combustion gases in the expansion bottle, might need a garage to do that.

[terranosaurusdoug]

Hiya mate, thats inside diameter, no idea about the threads, I ran rubber from front to back and they just slip over the metel pipes at the tank and pump ends and jubilee on :thumb2

You don't have a snorkel do you mate? Is th e plastic air intake in between the inner and outer wheel arches still there? What abouf the arch liner? The reason I ask is it sounds to me like the maf getting wet, I've had it a few times (cos I domdaft stuff :D) and a lot of the time just turning it off and restarting it or flicking ignition off and on whilst driving sorted it, sometimes temporarily sometimes untill the next daft thing I do :doh:D

You said torrential rain, check your air filter, see if it is damp and see if there is water or condensation about :thumb2

[solarman216]

Oh what a day Clive! re the fuel pipes I run plastic ex beer python stuff, so easy to install and as long as it is not near exhaust heat it is fine, cannot understand your motor going down re loss of water, you clearly have a leak but unless that was squirting over some electrics cannot see why that would put you in limp mode, unless of course it was overheating, wait for further comments, Rick

[solarman216]

OH and as Tdoug say check your air filter, missed that one, Rick

[Lazy-Ferret]

Cheers Guys...

No mayo, and oil nice and clean...

Since writing this, I have discovered a small water leak behind the top of the water pump, it has left a pink antifreeze stain down the nearside of the engine, so maybe it has been sucking air back in via that. Not sure it would have over heated with just 1 litre missing, but would also explain why there was no pressure when I removed the rad cap.

I do have a snorkel, and it has a landrover style Dome top, so no direct way in for the rain, but I will do a double check of the air filter... good call...

It was not limp mode, it was more slow splutter... it was hit and miss, one moment pulling like a train, then would not go over 1000 rpm. Just like when I had the leak in the fuel pipe before, but not as bad as that was.

I was just reading up and it seems that Copper and Diesel seems to be a no-no according to several sites, and the idea of learning how to flange and bend steel seems a bit daunting, so I think I will have to go flexible all the way. The Beer stuff sounds interesting Rick, is that the white semi stiff stuff you see in beer cellars? The only place I can think of, that the pipe goes near any heat is where it passes along the fire wall, over the back of the engine, would that be OK?

[solarman216]

Yes Clive the beer stuff is good and no problem on a T2, I have loads of it here so if you are interested I will send you a couple of lengths, just use the rubber connectors each end, Rick

[solarman216]

OH and yes copper is eaten by diesel, but slow slowly that it is not a problem for any T2 but still a lot harder to pull along a chassis than plastic, just need a few more cable ties that is all, Rick

[Banshee]

Looks like she may be ready to sign it's death warrant...

The car has more going wrong, than I have time to fix...

What with the leakoff pipes, then the Fuel pipe issues earlier in the year, then the brake issues, and the Aircon going while on holiday in Wales, the car has been on a short leash....

Today, coming back from Strumpshaw with the caravan on the back, and I lost all power on the M25, with torrential rain, and thunder and lightning going off all around. I managed to get onto the hard shoulder.

I looked for anything obvious, and got soaked, but could not see anything wrong. I got going again, but it was very hit and miss, and after a couple of miles she lost all power again.

I discovered that the water level was low, but the expansion tank was full.... I put a litre of water in to bring the radiator up, and managed to limp to Thurrock.

We filled up with fuel, and I checked the water again, and again there was a gap at the top of the rad... I put another 1/4 litre in and managed to get the car home.

I have no idea what is wrong with her, as the skies have been empting down, we had over 2" of rain in an hour.

So I have been told we will have to move all the holiday/ferret stuff over to Jiggley, and my car is in the dog house until I can convince Suz's the car is worthy again...

Couple of quick questions, regarding the fuel pipes.
I am thinking of ripping them out, and running new, front the back. I have never done a job like this, so will need to buy and learn how to use the tools etc. So, is it worth the hassle of running Copper, or just run a rubber pipe the whole way?
Secondly, I know the feed pipe is 6mm, and the return is 8mm, but is that inside or outside diameter?

Crickey Clive!!!!! Sounds like you're having a game of it :doh

That rain and your running issues was no coincidence. I've had exactly those symptoms with mine after totally soaking the MAF in EasyStart before, sounds to me like your snorkel could be letting water in or your airbox isn't sealed as well as you may think it is.

Before you go ripping your fuel lines out, switch the MAF out for another to confirm it's that, I had a spare until recently when I sold it.

If you are going to do the fuel lines anyway then DO NOT use Copper, as already stated, Copper and Diesel don't seem to mix too well and after doing lots of research into it before doing mine I opted for Cupro Nickel or "Kunifer" as it's better known, it doesn't work harden like Copper and less likely to crack or develop splits.

You'll need 8mm and 6mm, It's pointless me giving you my measurements as you'll be needing more than me being a LWB. You'll also benefit from a hand pipe bender, don't be tempted to finger and thumb it like I started to do as you'll cause flat spots thus reducing the ID of the pipes and therefore flow rate.

The problem you may face is finding someone to flare the ends for you, I was being a cheapskate at the time and didn't want to buy the kit so took the pre shaped lines in a van to my local motor factors and they flared 4 ends for about a tenner.

Parts List

6mm Kunifer
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Copper-Nickel-Kunifer-Brake-Clutch-Pipe-1-4-6-35mm-x-25ft-7-62-Mt-Reel/151571087104?hash=item234a573f00:g:4EwAAOxyLVZRY6C l

8mm Kunifer
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8MM-OD-x-2-5MTR-CUPRO-NICKEL-KUNIFER-BRAKE-FUEL-PIPE/180663299799?epid=1588232156&hash=item2a105f2ed7:g:HWEAAOxyaURThb9h

Bending Tool
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-72376-Micro-Soft-Copper-Brake-Pipe-Tube-Bender-Bending-Hand-Tool/192494734606?epid=25017709355&hash=item2cd1948d0e:g:Y0EAAOSwCp5au7A2

https://image.ibb.co/mA3bXv/IMG_20170329_191200_104.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/dimVsv/20170311_142043.jpg

[bbbmmm55]

Rubber hose is nice and easy. Obviously not as neat as Banshees solid pipes but if your pressed for time you can just drag it through and clip it to the existing fuel pipes.

If you ever chuck any veg oil in the tank regular saej30r6 pipes are rated for veg oil so wont break down.

[Lazy-Ferret]

Thanks again guys...

Had a chance to have a look around today, the good news is, not water related, as there was no sign of any in the air filter chamber, and I took the top off the snorkel, and dropped a board on the end, which stalled the engine, so all nice and air tight.

In the daylight, I could see very tiny air bubbles in the inlet pipe to the diesel filter, so definitely air in the fuel. Tried all sorts to find the actual leak location, but nothing obvious.

So, this has raised a couple of extra questions...

I think I will go for flexible pipe, rather than fixed piping, since it will be a lot easier, and to be honest, will probably out last the car now...

"bbbmmm55", thanks for the info, as I do run Veg oil. Rick, will the pipe you have be OK with Veg oil?

In trying to follow the pipe today, it looks like there are actually 2 sections to the pipe, the long one that runs from the tank to the front of the chassis, than there is a length of flexible, linking to a second steel pipe that runs from the O/S inner wing, and across the fire wall. Did you guys change both sections, or just the chassis pipe?

Do I actually need to do both the supply and return pipes, as I can not see any leaks, I am guessing the return is still fine?

[jims-terrano]

I replaced the feed pipe only and then ended up changing the return shortly afterwards. There is only a small amount of pressure but there is enough to forca small amount through any weak areas of the return.

[solarman216]

Pipe I have is good for fuel of any kind, the return if not leaking will not be a problem, I can send you a coil to do your motor no problem, Rick

[Lazy-Ferret]

I was sabotaged.... I think Suz has really got it in for my car...

Rick very kindly sent me some pipe, and it arrived in the post this morning. I set to work removing the old lines, and running the new ones, but just as I was totally committed, Suz came hobbling out to see me, asking me to take her to hospital... She had managed to knock a large metal ferret cage over in the shed, and the edge had landed across her foot, which had swollen up and gone numb...

So we set off to our local "non-emergency" hospital, to find that "due to unforeseen circumstances", it was shut. Back in the car, and off to A&E. Some time later, and it turns out she has bruised the bones, but fortunately no permanent damage.

Once back, I carried on with the car, but bad light stopped play...

The pipe Rick sent is the blue MDPE pipe, which I ran through some conduit I had which is from a Tornado Jet.

http://lazy-ferret.co.uk/chevereto/images/2018/06/01/20180601_204305.jpg

Pipes coming down from the engine bay

http://lazy-ferret.co.uk/chevereto/images/2018/06/01/20180601_204024.jpg

Then running along the chassis

http://lazy-ferret.co.uk/chevereto/images/2018/06/01/20180601_204043.jpg

Over the rear axle

http://lazy-ferret.co.uk/chevereto/images/2018/06/01/20180601_204114.jpg

and on to the fuel tank.

http://lazy-ferret.co.uk/chevereto/images/2018/06/01/20180601_204132.jpg

Not as neat as Banshee's, but hopefully it will work.

I got as far as starting the car, but I still have tiny little bubbles going into the fuel filter, so I will leave it over night, and see if I can spot any leaks tomorrow.

[solarman216]

did you manage to get the pipe I sent you over the outlet pipe from the tank? with a little heat it would soften but not sure it would be air tight as imperfections on the pipe could leave it open to question, I would apply some sealer as well, Rick

[Lazy-Ferret]

did you manage to get the pipe I sent you over the outlet pipe from the tank? with a little heat it would soften but not sure it would be air tight as imperfections on the pipe could leave it open to question, I would apply some sealer as well, Rick

Yes, I dipped it in boiling water to soften it, and then pushed it on...

Cheers, I will have a look in the morning, and see if that is the problem.

[Blocky10]

Looks neat enough to me. Well done.
Rick's the man!:clap

[Monaro Pete]

I wouldn't complain about that workmanship Mr Ferret.
Tidy top job :thumb2 :thumb2

[Lazy-Ferret]

Thank You...

Finally got it all to seal... the pipe Rick sent was slightly smaller than the spigot, and rather than add an extra connection as he suggested, by using a bit of flexible rubber pipe over it, to create a join, I used boiling hot water to soften the pipe, and then pushed it over the spigot directly. Weirdly but exactly as Rick predicted, even with a pipe clip on, it was still allowing micro bubbles of air to get sucked in.. Weirdly, even left over night, nothing was leaking out...

To prove the point, I removed all the joins, and use liquid gasket to push them all back together.... left it all over night to dry, and now the system pressurises, and the diesel stays up by the filter.

Just got to sort out the other bits now..

[solarman216]

As you have found Clive the plastic does not creep into the micro scratches on the metal pipe like rubber does, so a sealing agent is best, the same applies to domestic plumbing with compression joints, that is why we use a jointing paste, without the paste it may be years before a micro leak is evident, it shows itself as a growing corrosion fester on the joint, while not a leak in the normal sense it can prove hard to undo the joint years down the line, glad you got it sorted, and by the way I ordered and paid for a stat housing, £40 including £3 for the gasket, all brand new and in Ali, be here tomorrow midday, I will put it on the shelf for the next person who wants one and more are available, regards Rick

[Lazy-Ferret]

As you have found Clive the plastic does not creep into the micro scratches on the metal pipe like rubber does, so a sealing agent is best, the same applies to domestic plumbing with compression joints, that is why we use a jointing paste, without the paste it may be years before a micro leak is evident, it shows itself as a growing corrosion fester on the joint, while not a leak in the normal sense it can prove hard to undo the joint years down the line, glad you got it sorted, and by the way I ordered and paid for a stat housing, £40 including £3 for the gasket, all brand new and in Ali, be here tomorrow midday, I will put it on the shelf for the next person who wants one and more are available, regards Rick


Cheers...

Hopefully the one from Facebook will arrive tomorrow, but good to know you can still get the aluminium ones, as there is obviously a fault with the plastic ones... well, I say a fault, it has lasted 17 years!!

[terranosaurusdoug]

Bang on, I'm glad you got it sorted mate, what sealant did you use?

Rick, one of the pastes I use is called jet blue, very good stuff but I generally only use it for problem joints, quite difficult to undo after a couple if years.

[Lazy-Ferret]

Bang on, I'm glad you got it sorted mate, what sealant did you use?

Rick, one of the pastes I use is called jet blue, very good stuff but I generally only use it for problem joints, quite difficult to undo after a couple if years.Thanks, the one I used is Loctite 5660 Premium liquid gasket. It specifically says it is for diesel.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[solarman216]

Bang on, I'm glad you got it sorted mate, what sealant did you use?

Rick, one of the pastes I use is called jet blue, very good stuff but I generally only use it for problem joints, quite difficult to undo after a couple if years.

Yep I have a tub of jet blue, never had any problems with nut and olive type joints as long as you keep it off of the threads, I use Loctite 55 PTFE string for thread seals, great stuff and it goes such a long way and is adjustable, Rick

[Banshee]

Well done Clive, that's a nice neat job :thumb2

Good to see another method too :thumb2

[terranosaurusdoug]

Thanks, the one I used is Loctite 5660 Premium liquid gasket. It specifically says it is for diesel.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Ah right, I just bought some of this for the starter motor, not 100% sure it needs it but it had some on the old one!! I think it should be ok to use on fuel joints, I think I may have a bit of air getting in too and I never thought to use anything on the connections, thanks for the idea :thumb2

9803

[Lazy-Ferret]

Ah right, I just bought some of this for the starter motor, not 100% sure it needs it but it had some on the old one!! I think it should be ok to use on fuel joints, I think I may have a bit of air getting in too and I never thought to use anything on the connections, thanks for the idea :thumb2

9803Rick suggested it.

Just check it says it can be used in a diesel environment, mine specifically mentions for reassembly of diesel pumps.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[terranosaurusdoug]

Only thing it says that comes close is on the front where it says oil pans, nowt on the back, I might get some other stuff, its not mega bucks :thumb2

[Lazy-Ferret]

The cap arrived, so fingers crossed I can get all back together today.

Had to spend a while cleaning the rust off of it, his cooling system must have been running 50% rust sludge.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Lazy-Ferret]

Finished putting everything back together, and noticed the car was taking an age for the glowplug light to go out, but other than that, it was starting and I got the cooling system bled...

Got in the car to turn it round, and noticed the "Engine light" was on...

Checked the codes and got the following:-

Code 95: Turbo Pressure (33 starts)
Code 21: F/INJ TIMG F/B (27 starts)
Code 13: Coolant Temp Sen (0 starts)

Looked under the bonnet and discovered that the plug on the second temp sender had not pushed in all the way, fixed that, cleared the codes and problem solved...

BUT...

What about the other two codes, anyone got a clue where I should be looking for those?

Code 95: Turbo Pressure (33 starts)
Code 21: F/INJ TIMG F/B (27 starts)

[solarman216]

95 does not apply on yours as there is no sensor for turbo pressure so an erroneous code, the other one could be CPS or No1 injector sensor or even a pump fault, but I would suspect another erroneous code possibly down to the bad plug connection, Rick

[Banshee]

Finished putting everything back together, and noticed the car was taking an age for the glowplug light to go out, but other than that, it was starting and I got the cooling system bled...

Got in the car to turn it round, and noticed the "Engine light" was on...

Checked the codes and got the following:-

Code 95: Turbo Pressure (33 starts)
Code 21: F/INJ TIMG F/B (27 starts)
Code 13: Coolant Temp Sen (0 starts)

Looked under the bonnet and discovered that the plug on the second temp sender had not pushed in all the way, fixed that, cleared the codes and problem solved...

BUT...

What about the other two codes, anyone got a clue where I should be looking for those?

Code 95: Turbo Pressure (33 starts)
Code 21: F/INJ TIMG F/B (27 starts)

I get 21 daily, unless I remove the bulb there's no way of stopping that on mine until I swap the injection pump due to my head seal perishing due to using the veg so rich as I do, new pump will have Viton seals so won't perish again :bow

Usually though 21 is due to air ingress somewhere along the fuel lines. I would clear the codes and check them again after a few more runs out :thumb2

[Lazy-Ferret]

Thanks.

The 21 code possibly make sense, as the original problem was air in the fuel lines, which was making the car have no power, so fingers crossed that is what that one is.

I will run the car, and check the codes again, see if the 95 one crops up again.

The interesting thing is, the 21 and 95 codes did not turn on the "check engine" light, just the 13 one.

[solarman216]

Thanks.

The interesting thing is, the 21 and 95 codes did not turn on the "check engine" light, just the 13 one.

Just more to prove they are erroneous, Rick

[Lazy-Ferret]

Just more to prove they are erroneous, Rick

Thanks...