On board caravan battery system

[CaptLimey]

Hi to all

Having just bought a Hobby 560 I'm thinking of fitting an on board battery to power the heater blower system, water pump and lighting whilst en route. I'm wondering what amp/hour would be necessary/practical for short stops between hooking up to campsite power points.

The van is 13 core cabled but currently has a 7 pin plug fitted, as does my T2 tug. I'd like to have the opportunity to charge the on board battery whilst towing and also when connected to camp site power. What sort of charger/control system would provide this function? Will I need to upgrade to a 13 pin system or fit a second 7 pin to provide services to the 'van?

Anyone been down this road and can advise?

Regards and happy Hogmanay to all. CL

[(RIP) PLANK]

your best bet is to check somewhwer like towsure online and go for the best leisure battery you can afford, also a simple charging solution can be provided by a good battery charger with a facility to drop down to a trickle charge to keep the battery maintained when it has become fully charged.

I know a lot of people will probably disagree, but i have found keeping the battery charged from you vahicle when it is moving is overrated as caravans to stand much longer than they are towed and batteris dischareg realatively quickly in use,

so if it were me I would go this route (or a similar one):

http://www.towsure.com/product/13450-Automatic_Battery_Charger_12V_1.2-120Ah

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Leisure-caravan-battery-deep-cycle-sealed-calcium-88ah_W0QQitemZ270322032824QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ca mpervan_Caravan_Accessories?hash=item270322032824&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318

you can spend a lot more and probably get a lot better stuff, but this would suit your needs I beleive.

Happy new year

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

yep im with plank on 12s for charging and running fridge on move
basically waste of time unless very long journey. tbh 12s is just
something else to go wrong or get damaged off road, and with the
live feed to pin 4 and others with ignition prone to fusing when
damaged.

chill van fridge at home, along with charging battery then plug into
mains on arrival.

does the hobby not have a battery as standard or a box for one or
a charger then. if not these must be classed as uk features.

typical uk van would have a 90 or maybe 110 amp hour battery, ours
can certainly supply all 12v needs on weekend rallies with no hook up.

think have read though that the euro connector is better design for
the lights and aux circuits. maybe worth changing over if van already
wired. if not towsure do 2x7 to 13 adapters.

[tezzer]

captlimey, i've been looking for a leisure battery for my van, this guy may be able to help with a battery and charger---WWW.ELECTROQUESTUK.COM

im getting my battery from him the 120 amp. :thumb2







tezzer

[CaptLimey]

My thanks yet again to Plank and rbrt for good sound common sense advice. I'll probably go for their simple no nonsense recommended option.

Thanks also to Tezzer - what's the asking price for the 120 amp?

100 amp/hr sealed batteries are around 160 quid/Euros (they're now the same!!) over here in the French hypermarket auto stores. (And by the way I can read your French!!)

Regards CL

[tezzer]

hello CaptLimey, 120 amp £79.99 +9.50 carriage, leisure battery charger £39.95 + £8.50 carriage:thumb2 :D





i was waiting for someone to comment on my french










tezzer

[tezzer]

CaptLimey, heres the item numbers battery-- 130268838417 charger---140281737256 battery has duel posts. :thumb2










tezzer

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

intriged by delivery as towsure alway say cant ship due to acid contents, unless
you're looking a gell type?

[tezzer]

intriged by delivery as towsure alway say cant ship due to acid contents, unless
you're looking a gell type?

hi rbrt, i'ev heard that before come to think of it, just read listing and all i can see is that there completely sealed and spill proof, perhaps thats the difference? :nenau







tezzer

[(RIP) PLANK]

the sellers on e bay offer postage? so maybe certain courriers will take them?

The only thing i was going to add, and it may have been covered is think carefully about battery location, it neeeds to be in a ventilated space, idealy insulated from very cold weather. Maybe in the gas bottle locker?

alternatively towsure also sell battery boxes to keep them in, as you dont want the gas from charging building up inside the caravan! so it really must be vented to outside!

[Terranosaurus]

CaptLimey, heres the item numbers battery-- 130268838417 charger---140281737256 battery has duel posts. :thumb2


I've got a pretty similar spec battery under the bonnet of my Terrano cost me £70 (inc VAT) collect but I'm local - now that caravan batteries are having to run motor movers all the time a lot of them are marine batteries rather than true leisure and so are suitable for starter/winch use on 4x4s too.

Its a Numax CXV31MF that I got theres one HERE (http://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-CXV31MF-P3694.html) but got mine elsewhere in Leeds.

Have a look at this guy on ebay too, Mav sorted out a discount with him a few months back

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/THE-BATTERY-MANs-SHOP_Leisure-batteries_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ373176010QQftidZ2 QQtZkm

[CaptLimey]

Thanks to all for the good advice. I've ordered the same Numax leisure battery as rbrt recommended and the charger recommended by Tezzer.

Thanks again to Plank for prudent battery mounting advice. I think my Hobby has a good mounting option in the cupboard beneath the wardrobe which is close to the axle for good weight distribution and externally vented.

Re the query about Hobbys having a factory mounted battery - that may well be correct but mine doesn't, nor does it have an obvious terminal connection point for the 12 volt feed from the battery. I'm thinking of connecting it to the 12 volt feed from the inverter to supply current when not connected to mains power and the inverter is therefore not working. Anyone forsee a problem with that?

Regards CL.

[(RIP) PLANK]

out of interest I have approx 15 'leisure' batteries in my shed at any given time being charged as we use them to run electric fences (up to 10000 volts!) all different makes and capacities, most of them say marine and leisure on the side or have a picture of both caravans and boats, and to be fair, regardles of the capacity the 85 amp ones seem in practice to run a fance as long as any other, bear in mind the fences run 24/7 and so are a fairly constant drain. It is pulsed DC yes but the capacitors are charging between the pulses (I would assume so anyway).

The only ones i haven't realy tried are gel batteries, largeley because i am too tight to pay for them but other than that they all seem pretty much the same, but they do last very well, and I do abuse them, they get run flat and left out in the cold for days etc and still seem to keep going!

A small tip though, wrap the receipt in a lunch bag and tape it to the side of the battery, and write the purchase date and guarantee length on the top with a marker pen, then you will be sure to get your money's worth!

[CaptLimey]

Hi Plank. I lived on a boat for a number of years and batteries were a major consideration to all live-aboards. Yes gel and AGM batteries are longer lasting and hardier when deep cycled but unless you're mounting them horizontally, which you can with a gel, my view is that ordinary sealed lead acid are the best value for money. If you got three years out of a deep cycled battery before holding a charge became a problem then live-aboards regarded that as a reasonable life span. Regards CL.

[(RIP) PLANK]

Cheers CL, I will stick to cheap lead acid type leisure batteries from now on then! as i transport them around daily i am often paranoind about the wet acid content, but £ for £ I dont think they are bad value! Are gel batteries much lighter?

[CaptLimey]

Hi Plank. I'm not sure whether there is any weight difference as I doubt whether gel is any heavier/lighter than liquid acid. What is probably more relevant to weight is the amp/hr capacity. I used only lead acid, both sealed and unsealed, on my boat and, as they did have a hard life, I expected to renew the battery bank after roughly three years. Fellow live aboards generally claimed their gel cells gave longer and more reliable service but, like you, I didn't consider that twice the cost justified the claimed benefits. Regards CL.

[(RIP) PLANK]

So Captain, am i right in assuming you use a bank of batteries to provide 240v power? if so how many do you use to make it feasible for normal daily use? How do you charge them, just from the engine or solar/wind power? last question, should this be in a different thread?

[Paul]

Bit of topic here, but whats the differance in a leisure battery charger & a car battery charger?? :nenau

[(RIP) PLANK]

Generaly leisure batteries need a longer slower charge, I have a good car battery charger with a charge amps meter and an led to indicate when the battery is fully charged. When trickle charging from flat, a leisure battery will carry on drawing a couple of amps for a day or so after the charge complete light is on!

I am not sure of the difference other than this, but i beleive some leisure battery chargers have a variabel charge rate that lowers the current available over the length of charge, and some swithc to a very low trickle 'maintanence' charge wehn done and then cut in and out to keep the battery topped up so you can leave them connected.

Having said all that i am sure someone has a much better answer and probably more concise with it ;)

[Paul]

Thanks, was looking at leisure battery chargers yesterday, not cheap to buy are they..:eek:

[(RIP) PLANK]

Thanks, was looking at leisure battery chargers yesterday, not cheap to buy are they..:eek:


have a look on towsure they have some from around £26 i think, i did put a link earleir in the thread

[tezzer]

i've been caravanning for over 25 yrs and i always charge my leisure battery with a car charger, and never had any problems, i think leisure battery chargers are regulated for a smoother charge and wont boil the battery, as will a car charger.


this link might help -- www.windsun.com







tezzer

[(RIP) PLANK]

I have 2 car chargers and charge my leisure batteries every day with them, and have not problems, just as i sadi they need leaving on charge after the charger says they are completely charged! I try to get as much juice as possible in them as i have to cary them over muddy fields to change them and an extra day or two out of each one adds up to a whole lot less humping them about each month.

[CaptLimey]

Hi Plank and others.

To respond to your 12 volt to mains power question Plank; I have to say that the subject of batteries amongst live aboard boaters consumed much time over many social (boozy) evenings!
Essentially, unless you want a quick 'squirt' of mains power, to get a reasonable and sustainable amount of mains energy from a battery bank it has to be big, i.e. in the hundreds of amp hours level, and you need a pretty hefty inverter to convert the 12 volts to whatever mains power your systems needed. I my case it was 110 volts and I had a battery bank of around 800 amp hours. I used a bank of eight Trojan 6 volt batteries in series to give 12 volts, supplemented by two big 12 volt engine starting batteries. Trojans are designed for deep cycle and slow charging as in golf carts and industrial lifting gear. For charging I used a bank of six of the biggest solar panels I could get, I think they were Siemens 110 watt, supplemented by a wind generator. I also charged when running my engines on passage (I had a catamaran with two Yanmar diesels) and I had a 2kw Honda suitcase generator as back up. Having said that, we rarely used mains power as most sail-boat systems are 12 or 24 volt but even moderately sized refrigeration/freezer systems consume a huge amount of energy in hot climates. If we needed substantial mains power we used the Honda, it even ran our small air conditioning unit.

Hope that answers your question but I'll be happy to respond to any other boating/battery questions you or anyone else might have.

I have one for you - it's on the totally different subject of VAT on caravans so perhaps I should start another thread or should I PM you, what's your view?

Regards CL.

[rustic]

Thanks, was looking at leisure battery chargers yesterday, not cheap to buy are they..:eek:
Aldi do one for £11-£13 Around October time, they are nearly identical to the Towsure ones. I use one all the time, at home to keep the Mav battery topped up on these cold days. It drops to a holding current of less than 1/2 amp and limits the voltage to approx 13.5-13.9 when fully charged. This avoids gassing the battery (over charging).
On a flat battery they are capable of charging at 3.5 Amps, but they have 3 charge settings for different sizes of 12 Volt batteries.
Hope this helps.
Best regards, Rustic

[(RIP) PLANK]

I have bought a lot of tool from ALDI and never been dissapointed, I recently bought a 2.8kva frame generator, from them for around £150, it is a power craft but on the label in small letters it says 'omega wolf' so I checked wolf tools web site and called the customer help lkine and guess what? it is a wolf generator just a different colour and the price difference was ostading plus it came with a 3 year warranty!

I will look out for one of their chargers myself!

[daveg]

hi guys

when i had a caravan, we went with solar power to charge the batteries, yes it can be dear to have it installed but well worth it in my book.you need to decid what you prefer and can afford.we thought about long term use, with a regulater fitted i didn,t need to do a thing. just let the sun get on with it.

dave g :thumb2

[Paul]

I have bought a lot of tool from ALDI and never been dissapointed, I recently bought a 2.8kva frame generator, from them for around £150, it is a power craft but on the label in small letters it says 'omega wolf' so I checked wolf tools web site and called the customer help lkine and guess what? it is a wolf generator just a different colour and the price difference was ostading plus it came with a 3 year warranty!

I will look out for one of their chargers myself!
Keep looking at those, are they noisey??

[(RIP) PLANK]

Keep looking at those, are they noisey??

for the size of it suprisingly quiet! They also seell a small 650 watt suitcase generator and in comparison to that it is mybe sligtly louder (I think the official Dba level is 5 higher) but in reality it is a lower pitched noise and tends not to carry so far so feels quieter!

The only issue I had with it was a leaking fuel tap, some 'skilled-employee' had overtightened the lock nut and split the rubber seal against the tank so I had to strip it and fit a new one. But apart from that no problems, it is also suprisingly economical try these links for the latest models at pretty good prices:

http://www.wolf-online.co.uk/product.asp?id=003423

http://www.wolf-online.co.uk/product.asp?id=001622

[CaptLimey]

Hi Plank

Just seen and ordered the smaller of the two generators you recommended - fantastic value! Can't buy anything like that as cheap here, many thanks for the link.

Kind regards CL

[(RIP) PLANK]

I have a couple of the older model of them, and they are bomb proof, they are used and abused, I dropped on around 11ft onto hard sumer grass and it still works, my son in law threw the other one in temper whn the pull cord snapped, and it still works!

We run them on the petrol diesel mix from when his customers put diesel in the petrol or visa versa and he has to drain their tanks, I even use engine oil instead of two stroke oil and they still keep going, and will do up to around 8 hours on a tank full!

they are also pretty quite

I dont know if these newer 'emissions comliant' ones are as good but if they are you wont be dissapointed!

[CaptLimey]

Hey Plank, re engine oil and petrol, in the days before there was 'two stroke oil', I used to put engine oil in a can with petrol and shake to mix it before pouring it into the tank of my BSA Bantam 125!!! I had to carry a plug spanner so I could remove and clean the 'whisker' off the plug every 10 miles! Ahhhh those were the days (Glad they're over - Jeez, I'm getting old!)
Regards CL

[(RIP) PLANK]

Well, I have a few bantams (see avtar) and a BSA rifle will that do :lol

Thinking about it I have only eer took the plug out and cleaned it once on one of these generators in abotu 4 years of owning them, which isn't bad going by any standards!

[(RIP) PLANK]

captlimey, i found you input on boating aspect of battery use and power very interesting and informative thanks!

[CaptLimey]

Hi Plank.

Glad you found my diatribe on batteries/charging of use. I'm also glad to have been able to make a useful input and hopefully it was a means of thanking you and all the other members for the good advice on Nissans I've enjoyed over these past months.

Regards CL

[wildbri]

I have two of the aldi chargers one I use in the garage the other one is wired up in the caravan, the built in charger went US . to use a caravan charger would have cost a lot, but
the intelligent charger as they are called keeps the battery topped up without "boiling" as it automatically drops to trickle charge.

...bri

[rustic]

Aldi do one for £11-£13 Around October time, they are nearly identical to the Towsure ones. I use one all the time, at home to keep the Mav battery topped up on these cold days. It drops to a holding current of less than 1/2 amp and limits the voltage to approx 13.5-13.9 when fully charged. This avoids gassing the battery (over charging).
On a flat battery they are capable of charging at 3.5 Amps, but they have 3 charge settings for different sizes of 12 Volt batteries.
Hope this helps.
Best regards, Rustic

I was in Aldi Rugeley (Staffs) earlier today, and they have a couple of the battery chargers that I mentioned for under £13.00 They are called motor cycle/car battery chargers as they can also be used with the lower capacity 12 volt batteries.
They could have them at your local store, much cheaper than towsure.
Best regards, Rustic