View Full Version : URGENT Legal Advice needed before lunch time
Right, help please :doh :(
Last week Monday I took my Fox Float R rear shock absorber into the local Bike Shop in Warwick to have the old metal bushes pressed out and new nylon ones pressed in.
They had to order the parts and quoted me £49.99 all in to do it, I thought it was a bit steep but I was a bit flush so I decided to go for it.
Took the shock in, in this condition
https://image.ibb.co/hqnOCv/2017170627_222102b.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/iMqMza/2017170627_222102a.jpg
I was called Friday morning to collect the shock being told it had all been done and received it back damaged when I got it over the counter;
2 scores to the end of the piston, warped nylon bushes that I've just paid £20 a piece for and damaged paintwork due to being clamped naked into the jaws of a vice.
https://image.ibb.co/mtmdea/20170630_150842.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gmkFQF/IMG_20170630_WA0016.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/kcEgza/20170630_151158.jpg
Although the guy that did the work has admitted he caused the damage and has apologised, I haven't accepted the shock back and they said they would be in touch on Monday.
True to their word, they text me this morning with this unsatisfactory response;
"Hi, just to let you know that we've spoken to Fox who have confirmed that the performance is unaffected. If you'd like to pick your shock up, we're open until 5:30pm today, Many Thanks *currently unnamed bike shop* "
I'm going up there at lunch and want to know what my options are legally if they don't offer to resolve this for me.
What should I reasonably expect them to do? I obviously want a replacement shock absorber due to the damaged piston but should I be happy with a refund for the £50, or both :nenau
RJL Services
03-07-2017, 11:26
it should be in the same condition you left it with them thats some heavy clamping if they had used a press it would not have made them marks in the first place looks to me they clamped in vice and hammered new bush in or used the vice to push it in i would refuse it and ask for replacement you have pics of it threaten with small claims court plus will look crap if it shows when fitted and effect resale value:thumb2
it should be in the same condition you left it with them thats some heavy clamping if they had used a press it would not have made them marks in the first place looks to me they clamped in vice and hammered new bush in i would refuse it and ask for replacement you have pics of it threaten with small claims court plus will look crap if it shows when fitted and effect resale value:thumb2
Yes!!! Boom, these are the kind of replies I need, thanks matey
Keep them coming guys :bow :bow
it should be in the same condition you left it with them thats some heavy clamping if they had used a press it would not have made them marks in the first place looks to me they clamped in vice and hammered new bush in or used the vice to push it in i would refuse it and ask for replacement you have pics of it threaten with small claims court plus will look crap if it shows when fitted and effect resale value:thumb2
If you took your car to Ford for a service, and the garage stoved your door in, then what would be the point of asking Ford if the stoved in door would affect the performance of the car?
not at all relevant to the discussion is it.
Due to formatting I can't read what I am writing lol...
YOU must have the part returned in it's original condition, unless the potential damage was highlighted to you prior to the work.
A couple of sockets from a socket set and a 6" vice could have sorted this.
They don't appear to have the equipment or skill to perform this task.
Could the shocks be re polished and anodised to get rid of all marks, cheaper to replace.
Insist on replacement... Small claims here you come.
Ask yourself... if you walked away with the shocks as they are, with no further payment, would you be happy, if not, what would make you happy ... ish?
Blocky10
03-07-2017, 14:37
That's a disgusting attitude and unprofessional.
Just to make others aware, these Fox shocks are the 'formula 1' of shocks! Like everything you can buy cheap or spend a fortune. With Fox parts, cheap would be £200ish, up to somewhere near £1000! There is no way I would want this shock on my bike looking like that. In my opinion it must be a new replacement. Having the damage polished out could weaken the mounting, who knows, but what I do know is you can seriously hurt yourself crashing a bike like this if its being ridden how it's designed to be ridden.
Top end mountain bikes are a work of art and worthy of hanging on the living room wall, or standing in place of the t.v. well not with obvious unprofessional, lack of morals f*%#ing vice jaw marks on it!!
I managed to buy my 1st brand new mountain bike only 2 years ago. It cost me £1300 and is not an expensive bike by no means but I still spent £1300 for a bike with pedals! And i find myself staring at it when I'm supposed to be working on my truck:D
macabethiel
03-07-2017, 14:46
It appears that they have not done a professional job, you could have done better yourself at home using a padded vice and a socket of the right size.
I would speak with the Business Owner if the manager does not resolve this to your satisfaction.
Do not get fobbed off with "It will not affect the performance" you gave them a brand new mint shocker they have damaged it. Even if it is only cosmetic I would want it replacing.
it should be in the same condition you left it with them thats some heavy clamping if they had used a press it would not have made them marks in the first place looks to me they clamped in vice and hammered new bush in or used the vice to push it in i would refuse it and ask for replacement you have pics of it threaten with small claims court plus will look crap if it shows when fitted and effect resale value:thumb2
Sorry it's a bit later in the day now but the above was timely and spot on advice. I'm guessing that by now you have probably shown them the before photos and had some sort of reply.
Blocky10 and rustic's comments are spot on too, you need to be happy with the appearance and confident with the integrity of the shock on the bike. Those surface marks could tell a story about the stresses that the shock has been put through whilst the bushes were being replaced.
Not acceptable in my book and should be replaced with one in the same condition as before with no cost to you.
All the best with this, let us know how it goes.
panelbeater
03-07-2017, 15:21
sorry it got damaged.
many years ago an expensive cassette deck went faulty as nearly new i took it back for warranty repair.
this was agreed but when i got it back i looked it over and found the highly polished alloy had deep scratches and several other marks on it,i pointed it out and they agreed it was damaged by them so i got a new replacement from them that never went wrong.
i am talking about a top end deck over £500 pound.
don simon
03-07-2017, 15:59
Why are they talking to Fox?
It's not a warranty claim, so unless it was sent to Fox to do the bushes, why are they involved?
The shop was responsible for the damage. The shop must put the damage right.
End of.
Go in when shop is busy, the ask in a loud voice whether they think that damaging customer property while in their care is acceptable.
That's apalling (I avoided the obvious). :)
jims-terrano
03-07-2017, 16:16
That's rubbish, hope you have got satisfaction when you went back to the shop.
Went into the shop at lunch and dealt with the owner, who turned out to be the father of the little squirt that ruined my shock. Of course he was very defensive of his sons fine craftsmanship and started to insult my eyesight by saying that I was looking too closely for imperfections. I stood my ground, demanded a shock replacement to which I was told no twice, I refused to take receipt of my shock absorber and when politely and professionally confronted with legal action I was quite rudely swore out the shop by the lurking wife stood earwigging out of view on the stairs :mad:
Citizens Advice have been contacted and I now have advice and a case reference open, apparently my statuary rights are affected under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, stating that any business that carries out work like this must do so with "due care and skill" for such a task, if the item was damaged whilst the work was carried out then I am within my rights to refuse the item back and demand a replacement as it cannot be repaired.
I have now been advised to download a "breach of contract consumer template letter" from the gov.uk website, I must fill this out and state that they have 14 days to respond in a satisfactory manner stating how they wish to proceed. If I'm not satisfied with the response or they do not reply, I ring Citezens advice back, state my case reference number and we take it from there.
The guy I spoke to said that with the evidence I have obtained and the diary I have made so far etc that it's pretty much signed, sealed, delivered in my favour at small claims court.
I've even gone as far as e-mailing Mojo Suspension who are THE only authorised Fox redistributor in the UK asking for their opinion on the repair, they were very helpful on the phone and told me to expect a reply by tomorrow AM :thumb2
I also took this into store printed out and asked them where in that guide, written by Fox, did it show a shock absorber clamped in a vice the way mine had been;
https://www.ridefox.com/help.php?m=bike&id=251#dubushingreplacement
I'll keep this one rolling with updates as and when :doh
Here's the e-mail I sent, please don't be too critical, I've strummed the hearstrings a little at the end to ensure I get a response that helps me fight my corner, Emily was very empathetic on the phone :thumb2
Dear Sir/Madam
I have spoken to Emily on the phone earlier who has asked me to email in, in hope that you will be able to assist me.
I have a 2011 LaPierre Zesty 314 with a Fox Float R rear shock absorber, it has recently been clicking and I decided that I would find somewhere that could press some new bushes in for me.
My local bike shop came recommended and agreed that they could do the work and advised me that they service Fox equipment often. Parts and labour would come to £49.99 so I agreed to this and dropped my shock absorber in for them.
It was in mint condition when I dropped it in to them as you can see in the pictures I have attached (Pre Repair 1 & Pre Repair 2)
I was called on Friday to collect it and found it in the state that you can see in the remaining pictures, I'm very upset as it appears that my shock has been harshly over tightened in a vice causing damage to the paint and metalwork, 2 of the flanged bushes have also been warped due to what I can only presume was impact from forcing them in and finally on corresponding sides of the piston there are 2 gouges into the metal work that I am worried are going to damage the internal oil and dust seals.
I would like to know if yourselves at Mojo would say that this is a satisfactory repair? I have refused to take receipt of the item and as the bike shop are refusing to replace the shock so I am forced to start legal proceedings.
I'm really upset that this has happened as I saved for 2 1/2 years for that bike and have cherished it!!!! It's been the best bike I've ever owned and the Fox setup on it is (WAS) phenomenal.
Could you please advise your professional opinion on the repair that has been carried out?
Warmest Regards
Zac Dowen
Davey Boy
03-07-2017, 18:47
That seems perfect Zac.
To express your satisfaction with a companies product as part of your complaint is also a good move.
Keep it polite and you can't go wrong.
We're the photos recent, and/or date stamped?
I'm looking forward to seeing any reply you get.
Just a bummer that this sort of thing can sap your attention and energy just when you're having a busy time of it.
macabethiel
03-07-2017, 20:04
sorry it got damaged.
many years ago an expensive cassette deck went faulty as nearly new i took it back for warranty repair.
this was agreed but when i got it back i looked it over and found the highly polished alloy had deep scratches and several other marks on it,i pointed it out and they agreed it was damaged by them so i got a new replacement from them that never went wrong.
i am talking about a top end deck over £500 pound.
I had an issue last year when I took my Laptop a moderately expensive HP ProBook 6570b into the place where I bought it in Ashbourne to have the power button repaired / replaced as it had stuck down. At the same time I had a solid state hard drive fitted.
When I collected it a couple of days later the battery would not release and the funtcion buttons along the top had stopped working Worse still half the RAM was missing! Luckily I had kept the receipt from when I bought it showing the RAM upgrade.
A couple of days later all was fixed but marks round the hinges left it far from perfect. After some moaning I ended up getting a pretty good discount on a new laptop they had in stock for the wife.
I'm sure if you want some lurkers hovering in the shop just before you come in, I'm sure you can get a few volunteers, infact one customer might just be signing up for a pair of bikes just minutes before you come into the shop, lol....
So...before I sign... tell me about after sales service...
No it's ok... deal with this gentleman first....
Now where did that gentleman go that was about to order two bikes?
:lol
johnb5177
03-07-2017, 21:15
Oh Uncle, you devious fellow you..........:thumbs
makeitfit
03-07-2017, 21:18
I'm sure if you want some lurkers hovering in the shop just before you come in, I'm sure you can get a few volunteers, infact one customer might just be signing up for a pair of bikes just minutes before you come into the shop, lol....
So...before I sign... tell me about after sales service...
No it's ok... deal with this gentleman first....
Now where did that gentleman go that was about to order two bikes?
:lol
I like your thinking as always Uncle Rustic.
I fancy a new bike as it happens :sly
Thomas61
03-07-2017, 21:23
I like your thinking as always Uncle Rustic.
I fancy a new bike as it happens :sly
Oh yeah, I want 17 bikes with full service support for my new "Cycle Into A Healthier Future" scheme :lol
Oh Uncle, you devious fellow you..........:thumbs
OR you choose the busiest time of the day to visit, never shout, start off soft, which makes people want to listen, just raise the volume being more assertive without being aggressive, and continue with the same script and insist on escalating it to someone in the company that has authority to deal with this.
At this point they will want to try to move you to a sound proof office lol....
NEVER Never swear, or shout, if it looks like you are loosing it.... then too late you have already lost. Give them the opportunity to put things right, be realistic, have your goals and objectives written down, together with all facts, dates, pictures, witnesses, transcripts of conversations with them etc
Yes... I have been there, and when my wife gets on board we really fly.
Halifax, BT and HSBC have all met the wrath of my wife, and financially poorer they were too. They called it "A goodwill gesture" we called it "a result !"
So... now you have time to add to the compensation, additional stress, lack of use of the bike, have you missed a race meeting recently? did you really have to hire that bike?
They don't stand a chance. :thumb2
terranosaurusdoug
04-07-2017, 09:45
That's shocking, no pun intended, the local lawn mower repair guy would have done better!! What's the point in taking things to a professional when you get rubbish like that?
I reckon the hole for the bushing could well be deformed due to being clamped like that, weakening it. For a guy that likes to do stuff himself I bet this is killing you.
That's shocking, no pun intended, the local lawn mower repair guy would have done better!! What's the point in taking things to a professional when you get rubbish like that?
I reckon the hole for the bushing could well be deformed due to being clamped like that, weakening it. For a guy that likes to do stuff himself I bet this is killing you.
Believe me TDoug, I've had cold sweats about it :(
Just to give this one some closure, here's the letter I sent to the shop;
RE: Fox Float R Shock Absorber Eyelet Bushes Work – 30/06/2017
Dear Mark Hartley,
As already discussed in person, I am not happy with the damage that has been sustained by my Shock Absorber whilst in your care during the installation of new eyelet bushes. There is damage to the shock body from being clamped in a vice which, referencing the Fox guide for this job, should not have been done. (Please find the guide enclosed). There are also 2 gouges in the shock body and the new eyelet bushes that have been installed are warped as if they have been impacted or over-pressed.
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 states that “reasonable care and skill must be used whilst working”. In my opinion, whoever has carried out the work has not used reasonable care and skill as can be seen in the pictures. I have also enclosed pictures of my shock absorber the day before it was dropped into your shop for work which shows that there was no damage previously.
Although you have made claims that the damage does not affect the performance of the shock absorber, I’m still not happy with the aesthetics of it now that it has been damaged and will not accept the original item back in its current state.
I ask that you either replace the shock absorber completely or have the shock absorber repaired by Mojo Suspension. I have been in contact with Mojo and spoken to Adrian who has advised me that the performance of the shock absorber will not be affected however there is still the issue of the aesthetic damage. Adrian advised that if that repair had been carried out by a technician at Mojo, it wouldn’t have been returned to the customer and a new one would have been sent out. Although Adrian was reluctant to send any communication back to me condemning the work due to being a distributor, I have recorded the phone call should I need to use this in my legal defence.
Mojo have estimated that for new eyelet bushes, a new anodised body and a service, the repair would amount to £115.
Please contact me as soon as possible, no later than 14 days from the date of this letter, to agree a date by which you propose to resolve this.
If I do not hear back from you in the time suggested above, I will be taking further legal action as advised by my solicitor.
Yours sincerely
Zac Dowen
The issue has now been resolved, he agreed to replace the shock body and sent it back to Mojo Suspension for the work to be done.
As the body had to be replaced, the whole shock had to come apart and as such the fitted new seals and Fox Float R Fluid which was in essence what the shop told me was a "Full Service" that would have amounted to an extra £118 on top of the £50 for the eyelet bushes, these have now been replaced too again bu Mojo and here's the money shot :thumb2
https://image.ibb.co/g6qgKk/20170722_160729_576x1024.jpg
don simon
22-07-2017, 19:32
Hat off to Mojo, but as the importer/distributor for FOX they were put in a bit of a corner by the shop.
I've only ever heard good things about Mojo.
Good that it's sorted.
I must look at dusting down the mountain bike.
Lazy-Ferret
22-07-2017, 19:36
Great result... well done for sticking to your guns... Nice letter by the way.:thumbs
jims-terrano
22-07-2017, 19:40
Nice one Zac, I get disheartened about the service we receive from businesses these days so it makes a pleasant change to hear about service like this. OK the shop must be related to the garage that I used recently :doh
Great result... well done for sticking to your guns... Nice letter by the way.:thumbs
I agree, great letter, you maintained a professional attitude and kept your composure.
Getting angry just looses you control of the situation. Well done.
:clap:clap
panelbeater
22-07-2017, 20:01
sorted:thumb2:thumb2
Thomas61
22-07-2017, 20:08
A nice result, sorry it happened to you but pleased it is sorted.
As said, very good and solid sounding letter that you wrote :thumb2
Blocky10
22-07-2017, 20:22
Great outcome:thumb2
terranosaurusdoug
22-07-2017, 21:13
I've found the whole ordeal quite shocking :D
jims-terrano
22-07-2017, 21:15
Oh, I would say this thread is quite absorbing :lol
terranosaurusdoug
22-07-2017, 21:19
Yeh it's been up and down :D
Well...
this is the best I can do lol...
.
Thomas61
22-07-2017, 22:04
Can't see it damping Banshee's enthusiasm though. Sure he will rebound from it okay.
terranosaurusdoug
22-07-2017, 22:08
You're right, I think he'll be more comfortable now though :thumb2
terranosaurusdoug
22-07-2017, 22:09
Well...
this is the best I can do lol...
.
:lol where did you find that :lol:lol
Thanks guys :lol
The jokes were awful but funny :lol
I refitted the shock yesterday and have to admit it feels way way better now than before I sent it off and has actually stopped the creaking that it was sent in for in the first place :naughty
Result
jims-terrano
23-07-2017, 13:12
Good result then Banshee:clap
Glad to hear that this has been resolved to your satisfaction. The right outcome at last.
Cheers
Mick
panelbeater
01-08-2017, 06:43
got to look after your tosh zac you only get 1.:sly
aren't you allowed to just shoot people anymore ? :augie
aren't you allowed to just shoot people anymore ? :augie
In the States, they make it very easy to do this, just leave a gun in the car glovebox, and along comes your grandson... plays cowboys and Indians... bang... game over.
When I worked in the States, it was common in Tennessee, to have a loaded gun in the glove box. Some States frowned upon this.
Rustic
don simon
01-08-2017, 10:00
I saw a guy in town yesterday with a t-shirt with the following "don't call 911, we have/use (picture of gun)".
I found that quite disturbing and I'm all for a bit of dark humour.
johnb5177
01-08-2017, 10:40
In the States, they make it very easy to do this, just leave a gun in the car glovebox, and along comes your grandson... plays cowboys and Indians... bang... game over.
When I worked in the States, it was common in Tennessee, to have a loaded gun in the glove box. Some States frowned upon this.
Rustic
I had the sad misfortune to have to use an American Harley forum backalong, for some advice on an electrical problem........one of the forum sub topics is......'What do you carry'.......the threads were to say the least......terrifying in their scope and detail, as to what these guys are armed with on a day to day basis, depending on the state and laws (or none) that they live in and under........:doh:nenau:eek:
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