live axle chat again...

[AlexD333]

After having nightmares on how to finance 15000 pounds to get all that ridiculous work done to the terrano, I was looking over their list of mods on the site, a 38" conversion for a navara has the following parts..

AT38 Contents
AT405 38x15,5R15" tires
15x12,5" alloy wheels
Dana 44 front axle, w/ARB locker
Air compressor
Torque wrench
Fender flares, painted
Running boards and brackets
Mud flaps
Speedometer calibrator
40 mm suspension lift front/rear
80 mm body lift
Differential gears (4,56:1)
Fire extinguisher
First aid kit
Wheel alignment


This conversion is mainly for utility vehicles. When converting to 38” tires, you are far exceeding the normal off road capabilities, with flotation on snow as the core benefit. This conversion requires, both lifting of the suspension and the body. Extra wide fender flares are used, 15 x12,5” wheels, 4:88/1 gear ratio, and many other modifications to the various parts of the undercarriage and the body. With the AT38 your SUV will become a super offroader, with remarkably good driveability on normal roads.
The AT38 is ideal in remote areas, like police and rescue work, construction companies, tourist driving, scientific work and many other difficult tasks.
For more detailed information please contact us at info@arctictrucks.is


Now forgetting this whole list for 15,000 pounds :eek:

Surely for the likes of me, I could get a live axle set and find a specialist to carry out the operation, the gearing seems to be the important thing as makeitfit seemed to be running standard gearing on 35" which reported power loss.

So either find a vehicle that has a complete live axle setup with lower gearing than the terrano, then worry about body cutting and welding later, leading to bigger wheels. In the meantime I could make cheap arches from a number of materials such as old tyres cut up ect. And suspension could be lifted right up :sly

[AlexD333]

No negatives please people, if the crazy Italians can do it, surely us Brits can manage it :sly

Seems there is a modern for the Hilux diffs to give the needed gearing above

http://locktup4x4.com.au/nito-gear-4-56-1-ring-and-pinion-front-497.html

[Banshee]

Surely for the likes of me, I could get a live axle set and find a specialist to carry out the operation

Did anyone else hear that?................

I think Rick just had a heart attack :lol

[rustic]

Why do all this?





.

[Fez_uk]

Speak to people who swap axles around on challenge trucks, They could do it easily. Theres tons of people here in the UK who swap axles around all the time.

If i was going to do it I'd try and use a patrol 3.0 gearbox/transfer box or just the transfer box somehow (no idea how interchangeable they are) with patrol axles.

But if you change the axles and susp linkages etc you will need a SVA test which are pretty hard to pass (they check over the whole vehicle not just what has changed, It will even fail on stuff like wiring harness spacing on the securing tabs etc) and from what I can remember expensive.

Your bumpers won't pass, They are very strict. No sharp edges blah blah etc etc

No negatives please people

Why not?

I wouldn't on a road legal motor as it would cost too much to justify, Just buy a patrol

[russell.huffer]

Buy a Patrol as suggested above live axles 35" tyres with nothing more than a 2" suspension lift and one of the best off roaders out there.

Get the 4.2 and you can even run it on what ever yo u choose.

Just please do not put bad bumpers on a Patrol.

Kind regards

Russell.

[makeitfit]

Alex, I'm not being negative mate but perhaps a little more real than you'd like . In the early days of my T2 modding, I thought I wanted an SAS
Please be careful with your fb lead. There's a lot of work overall and if that price is g/teed I'd want a contract,it's way too good to be true.
Now I know the easy answer is buy a Trol but if you seriously want your T2 to perform well the SAS isn't the answer. You'll need a lot of bucks thrown at the front to get any more flex than I have on mine. Checkout some of the youtube clips of SAS T2s . the front ends are all pretty short of flex. You'll still be open diff unless you modify a patrol axle and swap lockers etc.
IF you simply buy a LOKKA as Rick has in his, you'll benefit from the light weight of the T2 and actually have more clearance under the front than an SAS the back will obviously remain the same.
Think hard mate. IF however you go for it then good on ya but tell us and we'll go through it with you so you know the whole story :thumbs

[AlexD333]

Cheers dude, it's something I am Really considering, my cvs are so stressed at the front it would be nice to set everything back to normal, then jack body and suspension up instead, doing some cheap diy arches too and also open up tyre options.

The next hurdle for the likes of 35"+ is the power as you mentioned! tether than spend a fortune on tuning, the axles if installed right will have the correct gearing to compensate, top end does not bother me :thumb2

So yeah, one leads to another i guess, I want big wheels, big wheels need different ratios, different ratios need different axle internals, and for the sake of it (and the height of big wheels) might aswell go live :thumb2

Also arches can be cut regardless :thumb2

[bud]

the cheapest option is to use LN106 hilux axles and draglink,

cutting the rear spring seats radius arm mounts from the nissan axle and affixing them in the correct pisition to allow the hilux axle to reattach to the nissan chassi as per normal.

the front, gas torch everything off the front of the nissan chassi to do with IFS including swaybar mounts etc

make up a steel cradle to hold the front hilux axle(ensure it is all one piece with no flex)


weld the outer ends of the axle too the cradle and then cut the hilux front axle tube and move the diff head to the left hand side..this should be done so the diff head housing is the same distance to the left as it was to the right so you can use the hilux factory axles...... you should be able to do this with only three cuts to the tube.

re weld ensuring correct alignment

swap the splines left for right as the long axle will now be on the drivers side.

reassemble the diff and then measure the width of the chassi rails and center of wheel arch(or forward of that axis if you want to run big tyres)

build spring seats to suit coils and weld to outside of chassi rails where suited, then use these measurments to do the opposing seats on the modified hilux axle.

do the same for the radius arms...from anything really jeep/hilux patrol land cruiser land rover etc and build the chassi drop boxes to suit the lentgh and the width of the chassi in relation to the axle.

take the pitman arm of the steering box and turn it 180 degrees attatch drag link.

have i missed anything? hope not as this is what i plan to do. :augie

[Sweety]

If your worried mainly over the CV's angle (that worries me) then just lower the front end down a bit:thumbs I've seen T2's with 3-4" body lifts & with your 2" suspension lift on top surely there will be room for bigger tyres:nenau

[AlexD333]

Ney, I'm running body lift and suspension lift already with 32"s.I wouldn't dare lift it anymore.

The bonus for me is having no bumpers makes everything more accessible and moving axles forwards will help a small fraction with no less cutting and welding.

Bud that list is awesome, I guess steering extension and brake line extension will come later once I start to jack up? :nenau

Thanks for all the info chaps

[Bigbunny2007]

Good luck Alex can't wait to see it all done :thumb2

[briggie]

wont you get a electric shock with a live axle ? :augie:lol

[Barrbeast]

Alex mate, I'm not gonna bother repeating the other comments (*cough* just buy a Trol) and I am quite interested to see what happens with this (not for myself though as I've already got a Trol) but have you thought about how much these massive tyres of yours are going to cost? :nenau

You posted recently looking for cheap tyres, well if you go to 38" you're probably not gonna have a huge selection of tyres available and they'll not be cheap - if you don't like the cost of new 32s at the moment (where there's a huge selection of tyres available) you're certainly not gonna like the cost of new 38s! (From a quick look at tyresdirect and ebay you're probably looking at about a grand for 4...)

[Fez_uk]

Also the cost of the live axle swap alone.

38s will set him back easily about £1500+ 2nd hand for a set! And they are not a common size to come up for sale here in the UK.

It's not all about bigger is better, 37s is what is used commonly on the challenge scene here but the vehicles are mostly custom made and sit low and are light.

[AlexD333]

Tyre size is not set in stone yet.

I am accumulating more info first, and work will start once I know what order I can do work, I e, what bits I buy first.

I may go to 35" I haven't really decided.

Although temporarily Lower than my truck I may just get the live axle mod done dependant on the gearing before the tyres, that way all I have to do is stick bigger wheels on.

Again, this may be counter productive as the gearing might be too short without the bigger wheels I really don't know, so as I say, once I start to piece together the ratios ect I will get a better idea of what needs to be bought when :thumb2

For example, I wont need to jack up another 8" immediately :lol or will I? :sly

[AlexD333]

Oh and on that note, as I will require new suspension front and rear I may just get hold of a temp second hand kit as a "stepping stone" a size that the standard steering column and brake hoses can deal with. I guess a +2/3" kit off something with live axles :thumb2

[makeitfit]

have i missed anything? hope not as this is what i plan to do. :augie

Panhard rod and mount.
Modified front prop.
Workshop and hired help :o

[AlexD333]

Panhard rod and mount.
Modified front prop.
Workshop and hired help :o

See I'd love it, if I could just drop the terrano off with someone, after acquiring the "shopping list" of necessary parts needed and leave it with them for a set period of time.

All I worry about is leaving it with someone and they keep requiring more and more parts as would have to wait again for future payday.

[briggie]

I wonder if rick is reading this and raising his eyes ? :augie:lol

[makeitfit]

See I'd love it, if I could just drop the terrano off with someone, after acquiring the "shopping list" of necessary parts needed and leave it with them for a set period of time.

All I worry about is leaving it with someone and they keep requiring more and more parts as would have to wait again for future payday.

The shopping list is small, the fabrication is the work mate. It's not a kit you can order and bolt on . So the job has to be done by an experienced fabricator. Then it's make it as you go. You've read already the work involved in just modding a hilux axle ! That's why I suggest you go patrol axle.
There's a very good thread on another forum I've saved somewhere. That "might" give you an idea.

[makeitfit]

Oh wash my mouth out, I've found a kit :D
Sit yourself down before you open this link Alex :lol
https://ruggedrocksoffroad.com/nissan-pathfinder-solid-axle-swap-kit-sas-by-rugged-rocks-1988-1995-p-57971.html

[makeitfit]

Here's right up on a pro job. I know it's over the top for what you're after but the principle of the job is the same.
http://forum.ruggedrocksoffroad.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=a86cp1jpg1pcukaapppc6r0b74&topic=2362.0

[Barrbeast]

Oh and on that note, as I will require new suspension front and rear I may just get hold of a temp second hand kit as a "stepping stone" a size that the standard steering column and brake hoses can deal with. I guess a +2/3" kit off something with live axles :thumb2

You'll need to know the type of shock mounts and spring mounts etc before you can get a hold of any suspension kits as the set ups aren't identical...

Also, max lift with standard brake pipes etc depends on the vehicle.

There's gonna be a lot of unknowns until it's done and even then I doubt you're gonna just be able to buy a suspension kit straight off another vehicle :nenau

[bry]

Methinks i would buy a Trol.?
And then do Mods...

[AlexD333]

Methinks i would buy a Trol.?
And then do Mods...

Nope, a trol is out of the question for atleast another 2/3 years, really, it is :o

I will have a read of the build above, 9,000 dollars is far far more than I want to pay but I will read for principles sake :thumb2

Thanks for having a dig about.

Chatting with bud he seems to steer towards the hilux ln106 as certain parts will need very little alteration, I e, the shafts.

On the other hand people mention patrol, but seems to steer towards new transfer or gearbox :o

[bud]

for every ones benefit,
If you are considering doing a SAS on a medium sized vehicle such as the Mistral/T2, the hilux axles have a similar track to the t2, where as the patrols is a good 6-8 inches wider, no amount of offset is going to get the wheels in under the arches, and the pivot angle on the hubs mean you will be hitting the front edge of your doors on less then full lock.
this would mean having to push the front axle forward away from the desired axix to have the axle mounted.

Also the patrol's gearbox is longer meaning the front shaft would have to be cut and shortened, where as the hilux's cardon shaft can simply have the flange at the transfer end changed to match the T2's transfer case.

At one point i seriously considered just buying a old farm hack hilux and sticking the mistral's body onto the hilux chassi and implanting the nissan's engine and box as apposed to stripping the hilux's axles and altering them to fit the mistral. :hide:

[AlexD333]

for every ones benefit,
If you are considering doing a SAS on a medium sized vehicle such as the Mistral/T2, the hilux axles have a similar track to the t2, where as the patrols is a good 6-8 inches wider, no amount of offset is going to get the wheels in under the arches, and the pivot angle on the hubs mean you will be hitting the front edge of your doors on less then full lock.
this would mean having to push the front axle forward away from the desired axix to have the axle mounted.

Also the patrol's gearbox is longer meaning the front shaft would have to be cut and shortened, where as the hilux's cardon shaft can simply have the flange at the transfer end changed to match the T2's transfer case.

At one point i seriously considered just buying a old farm hack hilux and sticking the mistral's body onto the hilux chassi and implanting the nissan's engine and box as apposed to stripping the hilux's axles and altering them to fit the mistral. :hide:

Very clever dude :D :clap

I will keep my eyes peeled for chassis and axles of a hilux ln106 then.

Problem here in the uk is that they get exportd for silly money to Africa and the likes. But theoretically it doesent matter if the thing is burnt out, all I need are the axles and certain chassis points :thumb2

[AlexD333]

If I could steal something like this (the white one) :nenau

[Barrbeast]

Nope, a trol is out of the question for atleast another 2/3 years, really, it is :o

Mate, if you've decided you're going to get a Trol in 2-3 years time anyway why are you looking to spend all this time and money on modding the Terrano:nenau

Doesn't make sense to me if you're not planning to keep the Terrano especially as the SAS mod will more than likely bring it down in value. Just sell the Terrano now and use the money you get plus the cash you'd spend on the SAS conversion to buy yourself a Trol :nenau

[makeitfit]

Dare I ask Alex, have you actually worked out what your end use will be for the SAS terrano ?
As I still think you're about to open up a a very big can of worms. Mainly because you don't really have a first hand idea/understanding of the job in hand. ( no disrespect) Consequently you'll be in the hands of others. Now if you're lucky and get a good experienced kinda guy then fingers crossed you'll get away lightly at around £2000. Now that's being conservative i think. 4 x 35" tyres will set you back 700/800 quid on top.
If you just want your T2 to look manly and be pretty much reliable without power mods but still work bloody well offroad . Then why not just buy a LOKKA and run some decent 33s
You'll actually have more clearance at the front than a live axle and the same at the back . Lack of flex doesn't matter so much then and you'll just need to spend on the Lokka and a bit of Ricks time.
OR just buy a bloody Trol :lol
For example http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-MANUAL-DIESEL-1996-SWB-NISSAN-PATROL-GR-SLX-TD-RED-4X4-8MNTHS-MOT-/251780455300?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3a9f48db84
Just think it through eh :cool:

[AlexD333]

Mate, if you've decided you're going to get a Trol in 2-3 years time anyway why are you looking to spend all this time and money on modding the Terrano:nenau

Doesn't make sense to me if you're not planning to keep the Terrano especially as the SAS mod will more than likely bring it down in value. Just sell the Terrano now and use the money you get plus the cash you'd spend on the SAS conversion to buy yourself a Trol :nenau

:doh

[AlexD333]

I just want the terrano bigger is all :thumb2

[ginge007]

Got to agree with pete how and where would u use an sas terrano if money was no object and its just a toy then go for it otherwise its just not worth the cost :nenau

[makeitfit]

I just want the terrano bigger is all :thumb2

Ah well just tweak yours to go 35s then :D
I did mine :naughty

[Barrbeast]

I just want the terrano bigger is all :thumb2

Well a SAS isn't the answer bud...

Look at that list of mods that Arctic Trucks do they only do a 40mm suspension lift (that's not even 2") and the rest is all body lift and arches.

[AlexD333]

But body doesent lift off the ground anymore? :nenau

So if I were to get 35" tyres with come cutting, perhaps I could just look into re gearing the diffs?

If I go down this route instead does anyone have an idea of how much work re gearing the diffs would be? :nenau

[elty001]

Just do as Pete has done, power chip and lpg conversion to up the power.
Also there is the mechanical pump conversion to give it a bit more power.

[AlexD333]

Just do as Pete has done, power chip and lpg conversion to up the power.
Also there is the mechanical pump conversion to give it a bit more power.

Well, mechanical pump perhaps, a remap for sure :sly

I suppose the proof is in the pudding, gearing has to be a good way to go, atleast to keep the truck happy and less stressful on the engine.

So I think combine gearing with a remap and the results would be great.

I must admit also I don't really understand this LPG conversion? Thought that was just a gas for cheap petrol motors? :nenau

[bud]

Well, mechanical pump perhaps, a remap for sure :sly

I suppose the proof is in the pudding, gearing has to be a good way to go, atleast to keep the truck happy and less stressful on the engine.

So I think combine gearing with a remap and the results would be great.

I must admit also I don't really understand this LPG conversion? Thought that was just a gas for cheap petrol motors? :nenau

be more worried about your wheel bearings, axles and tie rods. quite easy to snap crackle n pop. with 4.8/5.1's

and dont worry about LPG, Jet A/ high grade kerosene is what ya want..also has a anti freezing agent in it for flying at high altitude....good for winter. and since its for planes it aint taxed like diesel/ petrol.

[bud]

ummm Alex...just an observation...just watching a rerun of the topgear polar special and im pretty sure the hilux that clarkson is driving is IFS...

[Fez_uk]

But body doesent lift off the ground anymore?

:doh really?

[Sweety]

Jet A/ high grade kerosene is what ya want..also has a anti freezing agent in it for flying at high altitude....good for winter. and since its for planes it aint taxed like diesel/ petrol.

We can't use that over here & if got stopped by Mr Customs & they dip the tank to check the fuel you would be in big trouble:augie

[AlexD333]

:doh really?

Well, the body will be physically higher but the chassis will remain in the same place :o

Bigger the better and all that :p

That Hilux is IFS!? :eek:

and in regards to tie rods ect I plan to beef everything up, I have just ordered new stock steering components as temp "get me out of trouble" as one wheel can move whilst the other is stationary :eek:

Once i get the old link off ect I will post to Mr MakeItFit :cool: with no time limit :thumbs

Wheel bearings yes, to be expected I guess running big rubber.. :o

So i think we have come to a sensible idea of, bigger shoes, arch cutting, and possible body lift further (which would require longer steering, fan cowl moving, brake lines, diff breather lines and Intercooler rubber extension)

Anything else to mention? failing that I will start saving.

Pete, if im not mistaken, the 35" tyres dont seem too excessive in price for some cheapo muds ect... (im on remoulds at the moment) question is, do I run 15" or 16" with a good offset? (my guess would be 16" to avoid possible caliper issues as my stock wheels were 16"s :nenau

[AlexD333]

We can't use that over here & if got stopped by Mr Customs & they dip the tank to check the fuel you would be in big trouble:augie

Secret Squirrel tank? :naughty

[Sweety]

If you body lift further then there will be more room for the 35's & less arch work needed:thumb2 but as you have a LWB cutting the rear arches will be harder to do I would think than the SWB that Makeitfit has:augie 35's would give you more hight & a bit more room under the axles

[elty001]

Problem is if you go too big you won't fit anywhere.
If I go any bigger with mine I won't fit down a lot of the lanes around me.
Getting tight on a few now with the lift and 33's on.

[AlexD333]

Problem is if you go too big you won't fit anywhere.
If I go any bigger with mine I won't fit down a lot of the lanes around me.
Getting tight on a few now with the lift and 33's on.

Will definately take into consideration, however my new light bar will shave off the extra 3" so I should be more a less ok :thumb2

[elty001]

Yeah it does bring the height down.
Mines level with the top of the roof rails.
I'd love my terrano to look like one of the big Icelandic trucks but have to be realistic with it if I want to squeeze it through narrow gates and low trees but if your pocket is deep enough go for it:thumb2

[AlexD333]

Yeah it does bring the height down.
Mines level with the top of the roof rails.
I'd love my terrano to look like one of the big Icelandic trucks but have to be realistic with it if I want to squeeze it through narrow gates and low trees but if your pocket is deep enough go for it:thumb2

Well I want a massive truck, pockets not deep though :lol

Step by step will have to do :p

[makeitfit]

You can make 35s fit on a 2 + 2 susp job and remember you'll only be 1" higher than on 33s :)
That said, if you do go 35s Alex, I'd do a 3" body lift and trial before you buy various offset wheels.

[AlexD333]

You can make 35s fit on a 2 + 2 susp job and remember you'll only be 1" higher than on 33s :)
That said, if you do go 35s Alex, I'd do a 3" body lift and trial before you buy various offset wheels.

Ok good thought, surely the only way to test would be to get wheels, I actually want a really wide profile so surely I should just invest in some big offset wheels :nenau

Is there risk of buying too great an offset wheel?

I'm also on 32"s at the moment :thumb2

What body lift do you have Pete?

[Sweety]

Pete has a +2" body & suspension lift IIRC:augie but cut back his arches to an inch of their life:lol which is easier to do on a SWB due to not having skinny arches like a LWB has because of the rear doors:augie

[makeitfit]

Yes bigger offset for wider stance. If you do a 3" body lift, like I said earlier, you can do 35s without cutting rear arches. The front will still need cutting at the front of the sill I reckon.

[AlexD333]

Yes bigger offset for wider stance. If you do a 3" body lift, like I said earlier, you can do 35s without cutting rear arches. The front will still need cutting at the front of the sill I reckon.

Ok, a 3" body lift sounds achievable, where I source the blocks I do not know? :nenau and suggestions welcome :thumb2 and also will mods be needed on hoses I wonder?

Do you suspect the cutting will require welding? When I was with adz we did cut the wing area (rear of front wheels) and hammered back the metal. I will try and dig up picture :thumb2

[AlexD333]

Ok this is the picture I was thinking of :D

http://www.nissan4x4ownersclub.com/forum/showpost.php?p=259799&postcount=4

Is this what you meant Pete? Ta :thumb2

[makeitfit]

Ok this is the picture I was thinking of :D

http://www.nissan4x4ownersclub.com/forum/showpost.php?p=259799&postcount=4

Is this what you meant Pete? Ta :thumb2

Yeh but you'll need to go back further. Nearly as far as the bracket that holds the bottom of the wing.
Lift blocks are just nylatron or similar rod cut to size.

[makeitfit]

The only hose to modify will be the fuel tank filler etc. Simple to sort.
AND STEERING lol
You may need to extend brake lines and so on but again easy stuff.

[AlexD333]

The only hose to modify will be the fuel tank filler etc. Simple to sort.
AND STEERING lol
You may need to extend brake lines and so on but again easy stuff.

Ok sweet, well this sounds plenty achievable, steering? Whats that :augie :p

So in nutshell.

Extended brake hoses
Extended fuel filler hose
Further moving of the fan cowling
Bigger body lift blocks
Longer bolts for body lift
Diff breathers extended
Steering extension


And Pete, if I may again, what did you use to extend your steering? :nenau

Lastly, does my list look complete? Ta

Time to go to work and play in some snow I think.. :sly

[Fez_uk]

Remember the bigger you go you will have to fix it more often...

[makeitfit]

Remember the bigger you go you will have to fix it more often...

As above :o and also bear in mind I have upgraded top arms and have rose jointed pretty much everything. It's probably not a must but will have a bearing on longevity.
My steering didn't need extending as I'm only on 2" body lift.