Towing entitlement

[JODA]

quick question!

Since i passed my test after 1997 i need to pass the trailer test in order to pull a car transporter trailer.

Can i however tow it un-laden & empty?

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

id say no as trialer is grossed over 750kg max weight,

unless you can show unladen weight of it.


had issues before where folks have said cannot tow a 3500kg trailer
as terrano has limit of 2800/3000kg, even if trailer empty or running
under say 2800/3000kg.

suppose if can get away with it run risk of having to weight it if stopped,
I'd look at test

how much do you think a car transporter is unladen, whats on its plate.

[Fez_uk]

Rules changed slightly last year or so.

From what i read you can now tow a unladen car trailer. But check on dvla website first.

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

might be of use

as all searches refer to gvw or mam or max weights

http://www.armitagetrailers.com/trailerlaw.htm

last sentence

Braked Trailers

Although trailers with overrun brakes can weigh up to 3500kg gross, actual maximum weights are set by the specifications of the vehicle that is doing the towing. The law says you must not exceed the Gross Train Weight that the manufacturer has set for the towing vehicle. Look in the vehilce handbook or on a plate riveted to the vehicle to find this figure. You then have to subtract the weight of the towing vehicle (including fuel, driver, passengers, luggage or cargo) from the Gross Train Weight. The amount you are left with is the maximum theoretically-possible weight of trailer that can be towed legally. REMEMBER, the law does not care whether the trailer is empty or packed to the roof with bricks, what counts is the plated gross vehicle weight of the trailer.

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

try here too,

probably best non gov site

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/

[Banshee]

Rules changed slightly last year or so.

From what i read you can now tow a unladen car trailer. But check on dvla website first.

I've had this argument with so many people it's untrue

The DVLA now provide a tool so you can check for yourself

https://www.gov.uk/towing-rules

[JODA]

id say no as trialer is grossed over 750kg max weight,

unless you can show unladen weight of it.


had issues before where folks have said cannot tow a 3500kg trailer
as terrano has limit of 2800/3000kg, even if trailer empty or running
under say 2800/3000kg.

suppose if can get away with it run risk of having to weight it if stopped,
I'd look at test

how much do you think a car transporter is unladen, whats on its plate.

Thanks for advice.

Im looking at doing the licence, but wont be through it anytime soon! Picking up a car in Liverpool in a few weeks!

[JODA]

I've had this argument with so many people it's untrue

The DVLA now provide a tool so you can check for yourself

https://www.gov.uk/towing-rules

based on the tool get this:

Category B
You can tow trailers up to 750kg MAM (maximum authorised mass).

You can also tow larger trailers if:
- the combined trailer and vehicle weight isn’t more than 3,500kg
- the fully-loaded trailer weight isn’t more than the unladen vehicle


So if the SWB Terrano van & my Brian James is less than 3500kg im ok?

[Fez_uk]

correct

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

so what does bj trailer tip scales at empty and full.

you say picking a car up, whats that weigh,

gonna be tight/ or too much empty, can see how will get all 3 under 3500?

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

looked on manuf site an entry level 4 wheel triailer is gross weight 2600kg, with
a max load about 1900kg so its unladen about 700kg.

so 2600 is within max tow eight of 2800 on a 2.7 t2

t2 unladen around 1700kg.


but on a b ticket,

max of trailer has to less than unladen of car so thats a fail.

if i wasnt 4300kg is more than 3500 max combo on a b.


1700 + 700 + say 1000 for load is 3400 kg but really cant see vosa seeing it that
way or your insurer if they go for a prosecution.


suggest you find a driver with a b + e.



see licenced to tow download here at ifor williams site,

then faq ref disco and freelander queries

http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/downloads

[davenclaire]

simple answer no i taught my mate to tow he is a driving instructor ADI cars im a bike instructor with hgv1 lucky me since teaching him he nows teaches 2 or 3 people a week to tow.

plod will do you any thing you tow is coverd by your normal insurance if you dont have the correct license then your not insured

[LORDPSK]

I teach people to tow trailers for a living, to clarify the legal situation the law as it stands today is as follows:
pre January 1997 - grandfather rights and can drive a combination not exceeding 8250kgs
Jan 1997 - Jan 2013 A total combined weight of 3500kgs including everything inc passengers fuel etc. This would be the weight if it was put on a weigh bridge.
Jan 2013 onwards its the gross tow car plate weight plus the gross trailer plate weight added together must not exceed 3500kgs, even if the trailer is empty.
The exception to the rule is if your tow car already weighs 3500kgs then you can tow a max weight trailer of 750kgs
If you exceed these weight you need a B+E entitlement or another form of excemtion for example a heavy goods licence.

[solarman216]

I teach people to tow trailers for a living, to clarify the legal situation the law as it stands today is as follows:
pre January 1997 - grandfather rights and can drive a combination not exceeding 8250kgs
Jan 1997 - Jan 2013 A total combined weight of 3500kgs including everything inc passengers fuel etc. This would be the weight if it was put on a weigh bridge.
Jan 2013 onwards its the gross tow car plate weight plus the gross trailer plate weight added together must not exceed 3500kgs, even if the trailer is empty.
The exception to the rule is if your tow car already weighs 3500kgs then you can tow a max weight trailer of 750kgs
If you exceed these weight you need a B+E entitlement or another form of excemtion for example a heavy goods licence.

Nice to know mate when I go off goading it is with a lwb t2 full of my everyday builders kit so goes over 2 tonnes car trailer about 400 kg and a swb t2 with roll cage 2 winches and loads of dried mud for ballast so prob goes near 1.8 tonnes so well over 4 tonnes but my licence goes back around 48 years and I am an ex HGV 1 holder, cheers Rick

[solarman216]

Nice to know mate when I go off goading it is with a lwb t2 full of my everyday builders kit so goes over 2 tonnes car trailer about 400 kg and a swb t2 with roll cage 2 winches and loads of dried mud for ballast so prob goes near 1.8 tonnes so well over 4 tonnes but my licence goes back around 48 years and I am an ex HGV 1 holder, cheers Rick

But I do not give an eff anyway nobody tells me what to do, Rick

[rustic]

I have the old fashioned driving licence, from 1976. Normal car driving licence.

I tow a boat trailer with boat 600 kg+ 1300 kg approx, gross under 2 tonne, the trailer is plated at 2600 kg, so well within the trailer spec, well within the towing capacity of the Maverick, 2800kg and well below the gross train weight on the maverick plate.

Also well within my licence allowances.

Now here is the question.

I want to use the Picasso to move the empty trailer from A - B
Maximum towed weight for the Picasso is 1300 kg, trailer empty is 600 kg, so well within the vehicles capability, in fact blow the 750 kg limit that doesn't require it to have brakes even.. ( with a suitable vehicle.).

So in theory, I could carry 1300-600 kg ie 700 kg load on the trailer and still be legal right...!

OR is the fact that the trailer is rated at 2600kg gross even though empty over rides this?

I have heard so many conflicting reports. :doh


Rustic.

[jonela]

I have the old fashioned driving licence, from 1976. Normal car driving licence.

I tow a boat trailer with boat 600 kg+ 1300 kg approx, gross under 2 tonne, the trailer is plated at 2600 kg, so well within the trailer spec, well within the towing capacity of the Maverick, 2800kg and well below the gross train weight on the maverick plate.

Also well within my licence allowances.

Now here is the question.

I want to use the Picasso to move the empty trailer from A - B
Maximum towed weight for the Picasso is 1300 kg, trailer empty is 600 kg, so well within the vehicles capability, in fact blow the 750 kg limit that doesn't require it to have brakes even.. ( with a suitable vehicle.).

So in theory, I could carry 1300-600 kg ie 700 kg load on the trailer and still be legal right...!

OR is the fact that the trailer is rated at 2600kg gross even though empty over rides this?

I have heard so many conflicting reports. :doh


Rustic. When I was moving to France ,I hired a large box van to take all are bits and bobs over. Not wanting to overload it I looked at the plate and it was very confusing, axle weight,unladen ,laden etc .
So I rang the local Police station to ask them,they said no problem,they would send a traffic police man round to explain it. sure enough 15 min later he turned up in his jam sandwich, very friendly ,and explained it all, leaving me happy i wasn't going to get pulled and end up with a fine and points,:bobby:

[Barrbeast]

Hi Rustic

Trailer Plate used to be what they went by but it changed sometime in the last year or so (maybea bit more) and in a remarkable show of common sense it was decided that the actual weight of the trailer plus cargo would be the crucial figure. Plate weight is now only used to tell if the trailer is overloaded or not. :thumb2

[rustic]

Hi Rustic

Trailer Plate used to be what they went by but it changed sometime in the last year or so (maybea bit more) and in a remarkable show of common sense it was decided that the actual weight of the trailer plus cargo would be the crucial figure. Plate weight is now only used to tell if the trailer is overloaded or not. :thumb2

Wow only changed in the last year...
Common sense said I would have been fine with the Picasso, but it wouldn't have been legal a year or so back.
No wonder I had conflicting information.

Thanks for the update.:thumb2:thumb2:thumb2

[cncfabs]

Hi Rustic

Trailer Plate used to be what they went by but it changed sometime in the last year or so (maybea bit more) and in a remarkable show of common sense it was decided that the actual weight of the trailer plus cargo would be the crucial figure. Plate weight is now only used to tell if the trailer is overloaded or not. :thumb2

I disagree on the old system you couldnt hook up a 3500kg gross trailer to a terrano now you can.Before if you were stopped it was a simple check of the vin plates to ensure everthing was in order.Now to be prosecuted for overloading you would have to be taken to a weighbridge.You may think thats good because chances of prosecution have been reduced but on the other hand if you were injured or killed by someone with an overloaded trailer you may take a different view.It one of the things that really annoy me is the fact that my towing combination is legal but it cost me a lot of money to run such a vehicle whilst people seem to get away with towing ifor williams trailers on the family saloon

[Barrbeast]

You may think thats good because chances of prosecution have been reduced but on the other hand if you were injured or killed by someone with an overloaded trailer you may take a different view.

Hi cncfabs that's not why I think it is a good idea.

Being involved in the farming community I know there are plenty of folk who for practical reasons (capacity of size as opposed to weight) have trailers that have a higher rating than their pickup or 4x4 is plated for eg. my friend has a 3500kg rated IW flatbed which he tows with a L200 doublecab. He wouldn't be so irresponsible as to overload it past the pickup's towing capacity but for example he needs the trailer size for delivering loads of big square bales (~250kg each) over a long distance. A smaller trailer would be impractical given the dimensions of the bales (0.9m wide x 0.6m tall and up to 2.5m long).

I fully appreciate your point though and agree that it is important to match trailer and towing vehicle appropriately.

[Smiler AS]

.... whilst people seem to get away with towing ifor williams trailers on the family saloon

I've got my trailer test at start of Sept, I think I'm okay with light stuff but there are days when I fully load the trailer with logs for winter.
Plus Terrano looks good towing a trailer too!

http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o679/AaronSmillie/0E8484F7-E8B1-4D1D-AFB0-A0BBB47E5B27_zpslerqhwgu.jpg

[briggie]

ive got B+E on my licence :naughty

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

Hi Rustic

Trailer Plate used to be what they went by but it changed sometime in the last year or so (maybea bit more) and in a remarkable show of common sense it was decided that the actual weight of the trailer plus cargo would be the crucial figure. Plate weight is now only used to tell if the trailer is overloaded or not. :thumb2

can anyone provide a link, ideally to a .gov site that explains this change please.

[terrano bob]

I disagree on the old system you couldnt hook up a 3500kg gross trailer to a terrano now you can.Before if you were stopped it was a simple check of the vin plates to ensure everthing was in order.Now to be prosecuted for overloading you would have to be taken to a weighbridge.You may think thats good because chances of prosecution have been reduced but on the other hand if you were injured or killed by someone with an overloaded trailer you may take a different view.It one of the things that really annoy me is the fact that my towing combination is legal but it cost me a lot of money to run such a vehicle whilst people seem to get away with towing ifor williams trailers on the family saloon

:clap yep with you on that one I tow a twin wheel caravan hence t2 :thumbs

[Ianinessex]

I've got my trailer test at start of Sept, I think I'm okay with light stuff but there are days when I fully load the trailer with logs for winter.
Plus Terrano looks good towing a trailer too!


Terrano looks OK with a trailer, 'trol looks better. :D :naughty

[terrano bob]

Terrano looks OK with a trailer, 'trol looks better. :D :naughty

that's nice :clap :thumbs

[Banshee]

Terrano looks OK with a trailer, 'trol looks better. :D :naughty

Got to admit that looks nice but I prefer Smiler's Terry :sly

[theron]

can anyone provide a link, ideally to a .gov site that explains this change please.

VOSA published this guide aimed at horse trailer users but it covers all kinds of towing. The bit I think you are looking for is on page 18:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/193236/A_guide_for_horsebox_and_trailer_owners.pdf

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

VOSA published this guide aimed at horse trailer users but it covers all kinds of towing. The bit I think you are looking for is on page 18:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/193236/A_guide_for_horsebox_and_trailer_owners.pdf

cheers cracking link!

will pass to a chap on a fb t2 page thread that wasnt aware of changes.

[jonela]

Got to admit that looks nice but I prefer Smiler's Terry :slyYes I like the terry with a trailer,here's mine it's only 750k but it gets lots of use full of sand and blocks:thumbs
When you come here sooner or later you have to change your UK licence for a French one and when you do this you loose the right to tow anything over 750k and drive anything over 3.5 ton . But you can get it back if you specifically ask for it ,as it was on your UK licence ,But you have to take a medical :doh

[rustic]

VOSA published this guide aimed at horse trailer users but it covers all kinds of towing. The bit I think you are looking for is on page 18:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/193236/A_guide_for_horsebox_and_trailer_owners.pdf

Thank you for that link.:thumb2

This answers my earlier question, that I can legally tow my boat trailer whose GW is 2600 kg, with a Picasso, that can only legally tow 1300 kg, as the empty kerb weight of the trailer is only 600 kg.:thumb2
I thought this was the case, but now it is clear from that document.:thumb2

[Banshee]

All these pics of Terrano's with trailers are getting my juices going :lol

My little Franc trailer is pitiful compared to you guys with your ifor williams and tractors :lol

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

All these pics of Terrano's with trailers are getting my juices going :lol

My little Franc trailer is pitiful compared to you guys with your ifor williams and tractors :lol


trailer porn eh!

[rustic]

All these pics of Terrano's with trailers are getting my juices going :lol

My little Franc trailer is pitiful compared to you guys with your ifor williams and tractors :lol

If you show me yours....
I'll show you mine... lol..:naughty

Boat trailer, 26 feet long Max gross weight 2600kg :augie
But I also have a wee camping type trailer ...5x3 Klinn, stored in my garage on it's end.
Two people can tilt it on it's side and carry it through a standard doorway lol...

[Banshee]

Right I've got to do it, I'm going to upload a picture of mine

Please don't laugh it's only little :augie

[Banshee]

https://image.ibb.co/hWtAsv/20150111_145513.jpg

[jims-terrano]

When you posting a picture fo the trailer then pal:lol:lol

That looks just like a trailer only smaller:lol:lol

Does that say corgi on the side:lol:lol

[Sweety]

https://image.ibb.co/hWtAsv/20150111_145513.jpg

You just need some bigger wheels fitted on that trailer:thumbs

[Barrbeast]

:augie



http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p740/barrbeast/Photo0369_zps2faa661d.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/barrbeast/media/Photo0369_zps2faa661d.jpg.html)

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

Our first T2 with our first (little) Lunar Meteorite, really didn't know was there.

[bud]

Talk about beauracracy. Here in nz class 1(up to 6.5 tonne) your licence includes the assuption you maybe towing a car trailer or 5th wheel caravan in the licencing test questions, So basically you can drive any combination up to 6500kgs. Although not required to tow trailer for practical licence obviously.

H.T. is class 2 up to 12500 kgs twin axle, class three is trailer with a gross no more then18500 kgs class 4 is more then two axles and trailer up to 28500 kgs and class 5 is 50 tonnes any combination. Articulated etc.

[Ianinessex]

Talk about beauracracy. Here in nz class 1(up to 6.5 tonne) your licence includes the assuption you maybe towing a car trailer or 5th wheel caravan in the licencing test questions, So basically you can drive any combination up to 6500kgs. Although not required to tow trailer for practical licence obviously.

H.T. is class 2 up to 12500 kgs twin axle, class three is trailer with a gross no more then18500 kgs class 4 is more then two axles and trailer up to 28500 kgs and class 5 is 50 tonnes any combination. Articulated etc.

That's far too simple for us Brits. :doh

How can you keep thousands of staff employed sorting out and issuing licences with something as simple as that. Next thing you will be telling us is that you have a system where you do not have to send in a new photo and pay every 10 years to renew something that is meant to last until you are 70. :clap

[Banshee]

Our first T2 with our first (little) Lunar Meteorite, really didn't know was there.

Did those spots not wobble really annoyingly when you were on an uneven surface? I mounted mine the same on my Maverick and it was a Pain in the ar**

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

Did those spots not wobble really annoyingly when you were on an uneven surface? I mounted mine the same on my Maverick and it was a Pain in the ar**

they did, at 9" diameter, classed as big truck spots, weren't upto much, really needed
bracing back to front grill. Main use was could better determine where front of truck
was as could see their tops over bonnet! Had to take them off to get grill off to power
wash rad after a mud hole and never went back on,