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Peasgood1
23-08-2013, 22:37
I am seriously thinking about getting a new car.
I have had 3dr and 5 dr Terranos but only the 2.7 versions.
I briefly had an auto Mistral but that was only bought to rob the engine out of so I never really got used to it.
My current car is a Maverick, 5 door manual. Paid £900 about 3 years ago I think and have certainly had my monies worth

I know it sounds daft but I don't like pressing the clutch pedal, I rarely use it once moving and just change gear without it, so maybe an auto is the way to go. They are not the whiplash inducing gearchanges they used to be.

So, I think I have narrowed it down to a 3 door 3.0 auto. I would love the van version but need to carry 4 passengers.

Anybody got any experiences or comments that might be of use to me? Mostly on the choice of 3.0 and auto, I have had a 3 door and did prefer it as a car even if it wasn't so roomy.

rayf3262
23-08-2013, 22:57
I have a 3.0L auto and it's a nice lazy drive, expect to pay a small penalty in fuel consumption, but then you wont be paying out for clutch parts etc...
The auto's are taller geared too (higher diff ratios) so engine revs and therefore noise at sensible motorway speeds are significantly reduced too.
Add to that the number gripes on the manual transmission, noise from thrust bearings, layshafts, damper pipe issues, clutch issues.... the list goes on.

The auto box is an RE4R01 manufactured by Jatco, the same auto box I believe used in conjunction with the 2.7 in black cabs.
Apart from Briggie who, though no fault of his own, managed to destroy said auto box, there has been little said about them on here.
Same box has also been used in Nissan 300 series cars too, so plenty of power being thrown at it in those applications.

briggie
23-08-2013, 23:03
I think ive got some pictures of my autobox in pieces ray lol.... scarey :eek:

AD Ent
23-08-2013, 23:17
I drove an auto 2.7tdi of a member on here and I loved it. Very Smooth changes.

rayf3262
23-08-2013, 23:17
Admittedly, the majority of R20's here are manual transmission.

I was attempting to highlight the fact that apart from your pre compromised auto box there have been very few comments here on the auto box reliability issues. Whereas the manual box and clutch issues prevail.
So auto, bit like Marmite, love em or hate em, they don't seem to appear on the problem radar too often...

Peasgood1
23-08-2013, 23:26
Thanks for the replies. :thumb2
I like the sound of the lazy drive.
Good to hear they are nice at motorway speeds but have to admit most of my driving is on country lanes or across fields. Do the autos have a low box the same as a manual and if they do are they any good?
Had a Surf once and although it had a low box it wasn't all that useful (if memory serves me)
What sort of penalty as far as fuel use goes are you paying for the auto? Does it just cancel out the better economy of the 3 litre or is it worse than that?

Oh, that Mistral I robbed the engine out of was bought cheap because the auto box was starting to fail. So they can go wrong.
Briggie had the door mirrors off that Mistral :)

AD Ent
23-08-2013, 23:28
What's your RPM @ 70mph.? I think the manual is near 3000rpm standard tyres.

Peasgood1
23-08-2013, 23:35
What's your RPM @ 70mph.? I think the manual is near 3000rpm standard tyres.
Dunno.
Only recently got to the point that it will actually do 70. :lol
Had a high frequency vibration and pulled quite strongly to the right. Having worked through a lot of things it turned out that having the wheels balanced cured both. Very surprised the balancing cured the pulling to the right, but there you go.
Now I can actually stand to be going that fast I have also discovered that when my sat nav says 70mph the speedo is on 80. Until recently I haven't had the speedo reading much over 65 tbh.
Had it so the sat nav said 82 the other day :eek:

rayf3262
23-08-2013, 23:40
Thanks for the replies. :thumb2
I like the sound of the lazy drive.
Good to hear they are nice at motorway speeds but have to admit most of my driving is on country lanes or across fields. Do the autos have a low box the same as a manual and if they do are they any good?
Had a Surf once and although it had a low box it wasn't all that useful (if memory serves me)
What sort of penalty as far as fuel use goes are you paying for the auto? Does it just cancel out the better economy of the 3 litre or is it worse than that?l :)

The transfer box on the auto is the same animal as the manual.
Pretty much everything on the 3.0L apart from the engine! is the same as the 2.7L.
I have never really bothered to accurately measure the fuel consumption, but I would estimate it's around mid twenty's, maybe more....
But I think your estimate of the 3.0L DI vs 2.7 IDI and manual vs auto is about right. But, that may depend on how you drive it,.. as they say
"your mileage may vary" !

rayf3262
23-08-2013, 23:45
What's your RPM @ 70mph.? I think the manual is near 3000rpm standard tyres.
I'll make a note next time... but it's probably around 2600.

macabethiel
24-08-2013, 06:04
My r3mR was an automatic as I think all of this model are. I had no problems with the automatic gearbox in the five years of ownership though it was a 2.7 TDi. There are a few 3.0 and I think 3.2 Litre r3mR s in the UK they are a great vehicle as they ride and steer very well being coil spring suspension all round with rack & pinion steering. Downside with imports as you probably know is the insurance and parts take a little longer to obtain.

I did change my transmission fluid every year it used about 4.5 Litres as you can't drain the torque convertor so in effect you are doing a 50% change each time. It was not too expensive as I used Fuchs Titan 4000 and latterly Fuchs Titan 4400. Did have one time when the ATF went a funny colour due to some water ingress but that was a one off.

I now have a Hyundai Santa Fe as I could not source a Terracan or Patrol in my price budget. I intend to upgrade the ATF to Fuchs Titan 5000 as its fully synthetic and backward compatible with all Dexron 111 spec units. If you tow then it might be worth using the Titan 6000 as its about the best fluid in the range and can be used on older vehicles too.

I have owned automatic vehicles since 1971 mainly Opels, Vauxhall, Mercedes, Nissan & now Hyundai. Never had a transmission failure of any sort even when I had an old W124 260E that had 185,000 miles on the clock when I parted with it. I worked in the car trade for about 15 years and the only automatics I knew that were troublesome were the old BL fitted borgward units and the original Mini Autos. That said my late mother had 6 Mini automatics spanning 20 years with no issues though I did use the best oils on the market at the time and did the oil changes every year. Interestingly on the earlier Mini units you could drain the torque convertor - it took 2 gallons of oil !!

AD Ent
24-08-2013, 07:20
Great post :clap

AD Ent
24-08-2013, 07:23
I'll make a note next time... but it's probably around 2600.

I would be interested to know. Also do the 3.0 suffer from the same innacurate sppedo?

Thomas-the-Terrano2
24-08-2013, 09:38
but was slush box in mistral not same as in uk r20s. thinking control/selector differed
and electronics? also jap spec has even lower tow rating on basis jap market doesnt
tow as such, max 750kg?

isnt 2.7tdi auto max tow 1700 or 1800 kg, v 2800 for manual

and 3.0tdi auto max is 2000kg v manual 3000kg, something to consider if tug heavier
trailers.

rayf3262
24-08-2013, 09:40
I would be interested to know. Also do the 3.0 suffer from the same innacurate sppedo?
Yes just as inaccurate, over reads by ~10%

jonela
24-08-2013, 10:33
I have the 2.7 auto and I love it, its so easy to drive ,but remember the auto box drastically reduces the towing capability. to under 1700 Kilo

Thomas-the-Terrano2
24-08-2013, 10:41
Yes just as inaccurate, over reads by ~10%

dont most vehicles?, funny we have speed read out signs and at 30-40 can see error
but another one i pass must have error built in as car says 20, so thinking 22 but sign
says 20 as well. mind 10% is smaller difference at low speeds.

rayf3262
24-08-2013, 10:53
as far as I recall the regulations on speedometers are:
A) must not under read at any speed
B) must be within 10% up to 30MPH

In my Skoda Ocatavia I have 3 speed indicators.
1) OEM speedometer
2) Inbuilt car diagnostics
3) Sat Nav.

The speedo over reads, both the diagnostic display and the sat nav show the same lower speed.
As the diagnostic display uses the same speed sensor as the speedometer I conclude that the speedometer over reads by design!

rayf3262
24-08-2013, 11:56
but was slush box in mistral not same as in uk r20s. thinking control/selector differed
and electronics? also jap spec has even lower tow rating on basis jap market doesnt tow as such, max 750kg?



The 4R01 was a 4-speed automatic transmission from Jatco was available as either a light-duty ("RL4R01A") or medium-duty ("RE4R01A") unit.

I wonder if the Mistral was fitted with the light duty version?

briggie
24-08-2013, 13:03
The 4R01 was a 4-speed automatic transmission from Jatco was available as either a light-duty ("RL4R01A") or medium-duty ("RE4R01A") unit.

I wonder if the Mistral was fitted with the light duty version?

that's a very good question ray ..... I wonder , its true that the autobox doesn't seem to have as many problems as the manual box , but is that because there aren't as many uk models with the autobox ? .... I wonder .....good post ray :thumb2

macabethiel
24-08-2013, 13:54
that's a very good question ray ..... I wonder , its true that the autobox doesn't seem to have as many problems as the manual box , but is that because there aren't as many uk models with the autobox ? .... I wonder .....good post ray :thumb2

Hi Briggie,

I have always put it down to it being easier to abuse a manual than an automatic box save when towing and most autos have a warning light for overheated fluid - certainly my Chrysler has such a function and so did the r3mR.

jims-terrano
24-08-2013, 15:46
I once drove a Mistral auto and indeed it was a lovely smooth easy drive. That big clutch pedal made me bang my head on the screen though:lol:lol:lol

Peasgood1
24-08-2013, 16:40
70mph on the speedo is 2750rpm, on the sat nav it is 3k rpm.

Some interesting stuff in the replies, thanks for your help. :thumb2
Didn't even think about towing weights being different

Thomas-the-Terrano2
24-08-2013, 17:14
tow weights unlikely to be a problem for almost any uk caravan

but coul limit say a horsebox with 2 horses or towing a mni digger etc.

macabethiel
24-08-2013, 17:44
The last post reminded me of the days when I was in the car trade in Burton-on-Trent.
My boss had a Ford Gran Torino Auto about a 6.8 Litre engine in gleaming white with the orange to red stripe down the side like Starsky & Hutch.

He was an avid Trotter & Pacer man and he used to go to the track near Hednesford with his Twin Rice Horse box on the back loaded with two winning horses.

After the racing he would ring me up to drive over and bring his car and horse box back and he would return the next day if he got lucky ladywise.

You could pull 90 mph with the Horse Box loaded and it did not even feel as though you had a trailer on the back !
Top speed was only around 105 mph as I recall but boy did it get up speed in style and comfort. Fuel consumption ? Under 10 mpg when towing. Around 15 mpg the rest of the time.

Peasgood1
04-09-2013, 22:55
Still looking around.
Liking the look of a Mitsi Shogun Sport. Is there any reason not to consider a manual 2.5 one of these? Or do I need to wash my mouth out with soap right now?

AD Ent
05-09-2013, 00:30
A sport is a warrior l200 with rear seats and boot. I'd rather have a proper shoggie. Thanks for the speedo rpm. I will check mine again now.

Peasgood1
05-09-2013, 05:48
A sport is a warrior l200 with rear seats and boot. I'd rather have a proper shoggie. Thanks for the speedo rpm. I will check mine again now.

Odometer over reads by 4% too, compared to sat nav.

micktheshed
05-09-2013, 08:40
I would be interested to know. Also do the 3.0 suffer from the same innacurate sppedo?

Agree with raf3262.
My speedo reads 36mph @true 30 (not even legal it's twice the error allowed!) but gets progressively better as speed rises...I think it might even be accurate if I could get to 120 LOL. The same can be said of the milometer. This is on the original 1/2 worn tyres.
Quite a common prob. on 4x4's of many makes, my Frontera was just as bad.

micktheshed
05-09-2013, 08:46
3.0tdi auto max is 2000kg v manual 3000kg, something to consider if tug heavier
trailers.

I'm told this restriction is more to do with traction (auto can put more power down at low road speeds than manual) & possible overheating when towing. From a standing start they are capable of pulling very high loads, especialy using the reduction box. I've pulled a 3 1/2T motor home for several hundred yards over muddy grass with no prob. at all.

AD Ent
05-09-2013, 10:12
whats a reduction box

Peasgood1
05-09-2013, 10:31
4L on a manual.

Barrbeast
05-09-2013, 13:10
Still looking around.
Liking the look of a Mitsi Shogun Sport. Is there any reason not to consider a manual 2.5 one of these? Or do I need to wash my mouth out with soap right now?

I'd avoid tbh, had a look at one or two before I bought the Patrol (was upgrading from an M reg mk2 Shogun). Not bad trucks as far as I could tell but being based on a pick-up the seating position isn't the best and there's bugger all leg/foot room - space around the pedals is so non-existent that I would have been looking at constantly riding the clutch or contorting my foot so it sat under the clutch or brake pedal :doh

cupcake
05-09-2013, 14:05
Still looking around.
Liking the look of a Mitsi Shogun Sport. Is there any reason not to consider a manual 2.5 one of these? Or do I need to wash my mouth out with soap right now?

I looked at these before the T2, having had a 2.8 Pajero that I loved, plus I always liked the shape of the Shogun Sport. However, I've never been a fan of that Mitsi 2.5 engine personally and I read that it's very sluggish and always drives like it needs another gear. People often chip them just to make the power an acceptable level. The cabin is cramped, harsh ride, poor turning circle, no alarm or remote fob, little safety equipment and distinct lack of refinement since it's based on a commercial vehicle. No AC on the Classic trim level either. If they did a 3.0 or 3.2 diesel then I would've been seriously tempted.

All that aside, it's pretty reliable, which is a good thing given that the like-for-like repair bill is considerably higher than the likes of a BMW X5, Merc ML etc. (according to Warranty Direct's own research). I read that somewhere. Probably not so bad if you do any work yourself I guess.

Great towing capability at 2.5t and great offroad. Just depends on what you like personally. I'm very happy with my 3.0 T2 Sport :D

Peasgood1
11-10-2013, 21:20
Still looking.
I have actually sold my car now so I have some money (providing they turn up on Sunday)
I think I have pretty much decided on a Terrano 3 litre. Still can't get my head round the cream leather seats and cream trim. That is a bit not me really, how do you guys manage to keep it clean or don't you bother?
I would think the first time I get in with oily trousers it will be ruined.

Sweety
11-10-2013, 21:46
Still looking.
I have actually sold my car now so I have some money (providing they turn up on Sunday)
I think I have pretty much decided on a Terrano 3 litre. Still can't get my head round the cream leather seats and cream trim. That is a bit not me really, how do you guys manage to keep it clean or don't you bother?
I would think the first time I get in with oily trousers it will be ruined.

Go for the lower spec SE which has fabric seats:thumb2 mines I've got an SE & have the black seats with the silver flecks, infact I didn't want the leather ones due to having a dog (claws are nasty to leather) plus when it holes on the outer edge (they all do in time) I'll be able to just stitch it up:clap
I did think about getting a shogun sport as I love the styling of them BUT the MPG is dreadful (low 20's) they are slow & suffer quite a few engine probs like the crank pulley dropping off & cam shafts snapping & killing the head:eek:

AD Ent
12-10-2013, 00:50
Yeah the cream "leather" is rubbish really. Although it doesn't get as hot as black in the summer. So that's one good thing.

Big Col
12-10-2013, 08:33
Yeah the cream "leather" is rubbish really. Although it doesn't get as hot as black in the summer. So that's one good thing.

I take it you have these seats then? Because I have, and they are a dam site easier to clean than cloth.
I'm on my third Terrano now and the talk of the fuel consumption makes me laugh. The 3.0 is not that much better on fuel over the 2.7, very low twenties when towing and not that much better solo. But if your looking for fuel economy you wouldn't buy either of these trucks. Colin

firebobby
12-10-2013, 10:17
I have owned a cream leather 2.7 and now a black leather 3.0, as stated above, leather is easier to keep clean than cloth (2 kids prove this) as for pets, our friend has leather in her Range Rover and she throws a rug on the back seat when the dogs go in.

AD Ent
12-10-2013, 12:40
Never cleaned em' yet :nenau

Peasgood1
12-10-2013, 13:19
If the 2.7 is claimed to do 27mpg and the 3.0 is claimed to do 34mpg, that is a big percentage difference.
By my calculations it means £100 in the 3.0 would get you as far as £125 in the 2.7.
I know we are not after fuel economy by using these type of vehicles but it does still come into it. (yes I know there are lots of variables when trying to achieve the above claims)

It seems to me that most folk on here use these trucks in situations where they are going to be covered in mud, oily folk in and out and worst of all....kids! Just seems damned odd to make the interior cream coloured. Then again, I am a scruffy farmer so maybe my views are from a different perspective than most. Seems a lot of 4x4s are bought by city dwellers looking for an armoured personnel carrier these days.

I think I have decided on a black 3.0 Terrano with black interior, not fussed about transmission but £3500-4000.
Tall order I know but if I wait one will turn up. Let's see if the money burns a hole in my pocket first. :D

AD Ent
12-10-2013, 14:29
If the 2.7 is claimed to do 27mpg and the 3.0 is claimed to do 34mpg, that is a big percentage difference.
By my calculations it means £100 in the 3.0 would get you as far as £125 in the 2.7.
I know we are not after fuel economy by using these type of vehicles but it does still come into it. (yes I know there are lots of variables when trying to achieve the above claims)

It seems to me that most folk on here use these trucks in situations where they are going to be covered in mud, oily folk in and out and worst of all....kids! Just seems damned odd to make the interior cream coloured. Then again, I am a scruffy farmer so maybe my views are from a different perspective than most. Seems a lot of 4x4s are bought by city dwellers looking for an armoured personnel carrier these days.

I think I have decided on a black 3.0 Terrano with black interior, not fussed about transmission but £3500-4000.
Tall order I know but if I wait one will turn up. Let's see if the money burns a hole in my pocket first. :D

How far will £100 of veg oil get you @ 88p/ltr in a 2.7tdi ?

Peasgood1
12-10-2013, 14:36
No idea, nor do I know where veg oil is 88p/ litre.
I have a thousand litres of cherry outside, I bet that would get me a long way! :)

I looked at the quoted mpg figures for the two models again. I think there is less in it than I first reckoned.

Banshee
12-10-2013, 15:27
No idea, nor do I know where veg oil is 88p/ litre.
I have a thousand litres of cherry outside, I bet that would get me a long way! :)

I looked at the quoted mpg figures for the two models again. I think there is less in it than I first reckoned.

I wouldn't mind some veg at 88p a litre!!!! I'm paying almost 40p a litre for some of my good waste yhese days

AD Ent
12-10-2013, 16:12
my mistake.
KTC £17.99 20ltrs = £0.8995/ltr

Peasgood1
14-10-2013, 10:24
I'm actually leaning heavily towards an X-trail at the moment.
I know their off road capability isn't that of a Terrano but if I am going that severe off road i will go in a tractor instead. I rarely tow a great deal and a tractor can do that too. I have a 13 ton lorry if it comes to that anyway. :D
It seems to me that for the same money you can get more car if you buy an X-trail.
Seen a few nice Terranos but they are £6k+. Don't want to spend that much.

Peasgood1
14-10-2013, 10:24
ps. Sorry for dithering as much as that should I stay should I go person. lol

Sweety
14-10-2013, 14:27
I looked very closely at the x-trails & they are a nice motor but sadly not the best off road & you have to be careful wheen it comes to water as the air intake is very low down behind the bumper/wheel arch. The engines are chain driven but the tensioner needs replacing at 100K which from what i've read up is an engine out job & prob why you see loads for sale at the milage:augie Would I have one ? yes but the MK2 version (06 onwards) as the speedo is in the right place ie infront of the driver:lol plus I think it has a nicer dash & you get the factory slide out trays in the boot under the floor which are huge so great for storing stuff oh yeah they are good on fuel unless you go for the petrol engine which is dreadful & you can't sell them as garages don't want them in

Peasgood1
14-10-2013, 22:48
Thanks for that, I wasn't aware of the tensioner issue.
The money I intend to spend is unlikely to run to the06 onward model but I know what you mean about the dash. Not so struck on the pull out draws. I would only fill them with crap anyway.
I find it easier to get past the dash in the wrong place than the cream interior of so many of the Terranos.

Sweety
15-10-2013, 00:59
You'll find plenty cream seats :lol:lol but you'll also find more black leather seats than you will in the Terrano. Have a google on them as loads of info :thumb2

Peasgood1
23-11-2013, 19:34
Finally found what I wanted. Picked it up today. :)

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/2003-NISSAN-X-TRAIL-SPORT-TD-BLACK-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/lk0AAOxygj5SjKnI/$_12.JPG

cncfabs
23-11-2013, 19:46
Finally found what I wanted. Picked it up today. :)

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/2003-NISSAN-X-TRAIL-SPORT-TD-BLACK-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/lk0AAOxygj5SjKnI/$_12.JPG

Im breaking one like that:thumbs

Sweety
23-11-2013, 20:17
Very nice & you'll love the better MPG:D looks like the sport model ?

Peasgood1
23-11-2013, 21:58
Thanks, yes it is a Sport model.
MPG figured very high in my decision and in theory it should save £600 or more a year on just that.
I do go offroad most days as I am a farmer. Not serious mountainous water filled ruts but places a non 4x4 would struggle with if at all damp. A Terrano and all it's capabilities are a luxury rather than an essential.
We will see, but I actually managed most of my farming life with a Cabstar anyway, they have zero offroad capabilities. (maybe they need a Terrano back axle)

Fabs, I will be doing my very best NOT to break this one!

Banshee
24-11-2013, 04:00
The engines are chain driven but the tensioner needs replacing at 100K which from what i've read up is an engine out job & prob why you see loads for sale at the milage

When should the tensioner be replaced on a 2.7 Terrano/Maverick? I'm at 122,000 now and as far as I'm aware, it's not had one done yet

BIGSEAN
24-11-2013, 08:25
Never terranos are all gears brilliant idea after owning several Honda xl's I have a definate fobia about tensioners

Sweety
24-11-2013, 17:12
When should the tensioner be replaced on a 2.7 Terrano/Maverick? I'm at 122,000 now and as far as I'm aware, it's not had one done yet

As said above never as the 2.7 Terrano engine is gear driven like the old mini's & for cross flow engines:thumb2 Xtrails on the other hand have a timing chain

Peasgood1
24-11-2013, 17:31
Crossflow engines are not gear driven.
You can even choose between simplex and duplex chains on them.
Same goes for Classic Mini engine

Banshee
24-11-2013, 18:00
Never terranos are all gears brilliant idea after owning several Honda xl's I have a definate fobia about tensioners

As said above never as the 2.7 Terrano engine is gear driven like the old mini's & for cross flow engines:thumb2 Xtrails on the other hand have a timing chain

Quality!!!! :thumb2

There's one less thing to fork out for!!!

Sweety
24-11-2013, 18:06
Crossflow engines are not gear driven.
You can even choose between simplex and duplex chains on them.
Same goes for Classic Mini engine

Yes your right:doh:doh:doh Ahh these pills i've got to take really mess your head up:doh

Peasgood1
24-11-2013, 21:10
Earlier in the thread I said I just sold a car, so had some money to spend.
This was the car I sold.
You can't trick me when it comes to xflow engines and what's in them. :D

http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2008/6/20090317213119936020002.jpg

Sweety
24-11-2013, 21:53
Earlier in the thread I said I just sold a car, so had some money to spend.
This was the car I sold.
You can't trick me when it comes to xflow engines and what's in them. :D

http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2008/6/20090317213119936020002.jpg

You sold that:eek::eek::eek::doh love MK1's, my mate has a set of RS 4 spokes & 1.3 C/F stage 2 head in his loft off his old MK2 Escort

Peasgood1
24-11-2013, 22:08
Nice car but I never used it. Seemed pointless to keep it especially as it was parked outside.
Drove it to John O'Groats and back last year just for the hell of it. 1200 miles in a weekend!

Sweety
24-11-2013, 22:27
What a shame but under stand your reasons, i'd love one but got no where to park it & would prob end up with a driving ban anyway as almost got banned when I had my capri:doh

Peasgood1
24-11-2013, 23:36
I have a mint Mk1 Capri in my shed lol
Think I'm going to sell that too as it hasn't been touched in 4 years. My son will buy it if he can find the money.

http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2008/6/2009072022159207665waspy.jpg

Peasgood1
03-03-2014, 23:44
For the record, Xtrails are crap!
That £600 fuel saving has already gone on repairs and more besides.
Owned it since November and have only done 700 miles in it, spent more time fixing it than driving it. Haven't seen it for 3 weeks cos I sent it to someone else to fix this time.
Effing thing is being sold as soon as I get it back and now actively looking for a Terrano.
Live and learn I guess.

firebobby
04-03-2014, 08:45
It's a shame they get such poor reviews, Nissan seem to be burying their heads in the sand with this one.
I see the squashi is getting rave reviews from the press, just wonder what it will be like in a few years though :rolleyes::rolleyes: