towing electrics

[96terrano]

I've created this thread in hope it'll be a good source of anything and everything about towbar/trailer/caravan/horse box...basically anything to do with towing, all in one place

To start it off here's a wiring diagram and a thread containing more electrical related stuff, links to good websites etc:thumb2

http://www.nissan4x4ownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19821

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss315/cliffwinds/RHD%20V6%20Engine%20Swap%20Into%20Neon/trailer_wiring.gif

[SPARKIEDOO]

Nice .... Well done :thumbs

[96terrano]

Nice .... Well done :thumbs

Cheers:thumb2

[rustic]

Try this link for all wiring queries for caravans.
Including leisure battery testing, % charge etc vs terminal voltage.
Determine wire size, current voltage drop etc.


http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/library/files/Beginners-Guide-To-Electrics.pdf

best regards,

Rustic

[jims-terrano]

My tip for towbar sockets and plugs is to fill the back of the socket with grease and give the terminals on the front a good coat too. I do the same with the plugs too. Last loads longer with no fiddling to get them working. Oh I also tin the ends of the wires with solder too.

Don't know if you've noticed but the very bottom terminal of a 12s socket is the permanent live. This is the one that lives in water when you have a rubber cover or water in back of socket, it corrodes really well because of the lecky shorting through it.

[Lazy-Ferret]

These are my notes from when I fitted my socket.

1999 Nissan Terrano Tow Bar wiring

Cables located hinge side of rear door behind panel.
Green/Yellow (1 white dot) Brake
Green/Yellow (2 white dots) RH Ind
Green/Black (2 white dots) LH Ind
Red/Black (1 white dot) Fog
Red/Blue (1 white dot) Side
Orange/Solid (2 white dots) Rev

Blue/Orange (1 white dot) Ign to fuel tank
Green/Orange (1 white dot) Fuel Light
Thick Black/Solid Go to empty socket behind bumper
Thick Black/red Go to empty socket behind bumper

[96terrano]

My tip for towbar sockets and plugs is to fill the back of the socket with grease and give the terminals on the front a good coat too. I do the same with the plugs too. Last loads longer with no fiddling to get them working. Oh I also tin the ends of the wires with solder too.

Don't know if you've noticed but the very bottom terminal of a 12s socket is the permanent live. This is the one that lives in water when you have a rubber cover or water in back of socket, it corrodes really well because of the lecky shorting through it.

I used Vaseline on my electrics as Its waterproof:thumb2

I need to get a good tuber cover for me sockets:thumb2

[96terrano]

When I get my Hyundai back, ill include pics and vids if how to wire in a towbar, indicator beeper and split charge with aux battery, these are all the things I'm doing to the car :thumb2

[rustic]

Both my sockets on the back still work after 18 years, with no repairs or messing around.
Waxoyl for me.:thumb2
I have in the past, used Vaseline like Ryan, but that will probably get too many people talking.:eek:

Now I use the bootlace ferrules which are thin metal tubes that slide over a waxoyl covered wire, the tube stops the individual strands being cut by the screw.

Tinning wires with solder and then using screw fixings is not good practice.
What happens is, the solder is soft, and starts to flow under the screw pressure, and the connection eventually becomes loose.

I have re terminated many mains plugs, where this has been done. What you see now is small metal crimps on the end of wires inserted into plugs.

Certainly unprotected connections in the sockets and plugs, sold or installed by suppliers need to be stripped and something added, otherwise in three years time you will be chasing faults.

best regards,

Rustic

[96terrano]

Both my sockets on the back still work after 18 years, with no repairs or messing around.
Waxoyl for me.:thumb2
I have in the past, used Vaseline like Ryan, but that will probably get too many people talking.:eek:

Now I use the bootlace ferrules which are thin metal tubes that slide over a waxoyl covered wire, the tube stops the individual strands being cut by the screw.

Tinning wires with solder and then using screw fixings is not good practice.
What happens is, the solder is soft, and starts to flow under the screw pressure, and the connection eventually becomes loose.

I have re terminated many mains plugs, where this has been done. What you see now is small metal crimps on the end of wires inserted into plugs.

Certainly unprotected connections in the sockets and plugs, sold or installed by suppliers need to be stripped and something added, otherwise in three years time you will be chasing faults.

best regards,

Rustic

Yes, the wireing that came with the towbar 12S had little metal covers crimped on the bare ends of the wire so they don't get damaged when inserted into the screw connectors

[cupcake]

Forgive the dumb question as I have zero knowledge about towbars. I've been reading a few threads in the towing section, but I'm not really any the wiser. How do you know what 'kind' of towbar you have? :nenau

I have never ever used one, never looked at one in any detail, never even thought about it and now I have one. Wouldn't have a clue how to use it :o

[96terrano]

Forgive the dumb question as I have zero knowledge about towbars. I've been reading a few threads in the towing section, but I'm not really any the wiser. How do you know what 'kind' of towbar you have? :nenau

I have never ever used one, never looked at one in any detail, never even thought about it and now I have one. Wouldn't have a clue how to use it :o

well, youres is probably a flange towbar....that is actually the name:lol if it looks like this http://www.towbarworld.co.uk/C2-BlackCap.jpg

if it's like this its known as a swan neck:)
http://peugeot-3008.sgpetch.co.uk/admin/system-content/accessory_images/Peugeot/3008/De_mountable_Swan_Neck_Towbar_large.jpg

[cupcake]

This is it...

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q748/cupcake_clarke/Terrano/towbar_zps355c21b0.jpg

[rustic]

Forgive the dumb question as I have zero knowledge about towbars. I've been reading a few threads in the towing section, but I'm not really any the wiser. How do you know what 'kind' of towbar you have? :nenau

I have never ever used one, never looked at one in any detail, never even thought about it and now I have one. Wouldn't have a clue how to use it :o

You can even get a tow bar and trailer for your motorbike, these use a standard 50 mm tow ball that you find on cars, for use with 2 wheeled motorbike trailers, similar to camping trailers.

But there is now a special hitch arrangement, to enable a special single wheel trailer to be attached that leans into the corners as the bike leans.

Now that must be cool.


You can also buy a trailer to tow behind the Terrano, that can take a motorbike or two. Great for events, or in case of bike breakdown.

[rustic]

This is it...

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q748/cupcake_clarke/Terrano/towbar_zps355c21b0.jpg

This is a standard 50 mm tow ball, you can buy attachments, like bike racks, stabilisers for caravans etc.

You only have the one socket, this is the 12N socket, that basically gives the same lights as per the rear of the car for the trailer, except the reversing light.

For compatibility, ALL sockets should be wired the same.
Hence Ryan's post.

hope this helps,

Rustic

[96terrano]

This is it...

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q748/cupcake_clarke/Terrano/towbar_zps355c21b0.jpg
yup, that's the standard flange type:thumb2

[cupcake]

That's a big help, thanks. At least when I read other threads it will make more sense to me now :thumbs

[96terrano]

You can even get a tow bar and trailer for your motorbike

just found this:D

http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/attachments/mechanical-advice/4318d1253096648-motorcycle-tow-bar-trailer-vfrcamping.jpg

[96terrano]

That's a big help, thanks. At least when I read other threads it will make more sense to me now :thumbs

:thumb2:thumb2

[rustic]

just found this:D

http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/attachments/mechanical-advice/4318d1253096648-motorcycle-tow-bar-trailer-vfrcamping.jpg

Where's the toilet roll holder?
That looks scary to ride.

[cupcake]

That can't be legal surely? Well, not in this country I would've thought :eek:

[96terrano]

That can't be legal surely? Well, not in this country I would've thought :eek:

no idea, think it was in Spain or somthing

[96terrano]

ohh yeah, always remember to keep your tow bar ball well lubricated.. :thumb2

[cupcake]

ohh yeah, always remember to keep your tow bar ball well lubricated.. :thumb2

Seriously? What do I have to... er... rub it with to keep it lubricated? :D

And is this in general or just when towing?

[rustic]

Seriously? What do I have to... er... rub it with to keep it lubricated? :D

And is this in general or just when towing?

Normally a thin covering of grease.

The tow ball cover, basically stops grease from getting on your clothes, and stops the ball from rusting.

However when in use, when you take the cover off, place it in an old plastic carrier bag as it tends to put grease on your carpet, or anything else in your boot.

When you disconnect the trailer, caravan etc, put the cover on straight away, I have many pairs of trousers that were marked with thick black grease as you always touch them when you go into the boot:doh

Rustic

[cupcake]

Got it. Thanks for the tips, much appreciated :thumbs

Not sure if/when I'll ever get around to using it, but it helps to know what I'm doing should the need arise :)

[rayf3262]

Normally a thin covering of grease.


Rustic
Unless you have an Alko stabaliser hitch, then it MUST be kept grease/oil free..

[rustic]

Unless you have an Alko stabaliser hitch, then it MUST be kept grease/oil free..

Yes good point, but this looks like the standard ball, how is the Alko ball different, does it have a longer neck?

The standard 50 mm ball has a small flat on the top, mine has ISO stamped on the top. Is the Alko one different, I have never used one?

[96terrano]

thats what youre tow ball should look like:thumb2......i used multipurpose grease ..........this is the one im fitting to my Hyundai :D


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1175734_693346567359433_447802568_n.jpg

http://www.wilko.com/content/ebiz/wilkinsonplus/invt/0039759/0039759_l.jpg

[rayf3262]

Yes good point, but this looks like the standard ball, how is the Alko ball different, does it have a longer neck?

The standard 50 mm ball has a small flat on the top, mine has ISO stamped on the top. Is the Alko one different, I have never used one?

The ball is the same, some of the Alko tow balls have a longer neck to allow greater clearance of the stabaliser lever from the rear of the tow vehicle, stops the lever fouling on spare wheel etc. not always needed though.

[96terrano]

Yes good point, but this looks like the standard ball, how is the Alko ball different, does it have a longer neck?

The standard 50 mm ball has a small flat on the top, mine has ISO stamped on the top. Is the Alko one different, I have never used one?

no, we have a alko stabilizer hitch on our caravan, and it fits a normal tow ball

[96terrano]

finished my towbar electrics today :thumb2


https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1148785_693346500692773_2104567244_n.jpg

[rustic]

no, we have a alko stabilizer hitch on our caravan, and it fits a normal tow ball

I guess the tow ball when used with the alko friction stabiliser would need greater inspection, as it is designed to increase friction. The pads in the hitch will wear out, and the diameter of your ball will get smaller:eek:

So you need to inspect your ball regularly then.
I know there are wear limits, but difficult to check without a decent micrometer, or vernier.

I know the tow bar and electrics are now part of the MOT, but I can't see them measuring your ball...

Rustic

[96terrano]

I guess the tow ball when used with the alko friction stabiliser would need greater inspection, as it is designed to increase friction. The pads in the hitch will wear out, and the diameter of your ball will get smaller:eek:

I know the tow bar and electrics are now part of the MOT, but I can't see them measuring your ball...

Rustic

thats true, as you need a beeper legally now

[96terrano]

thats true, as you need a beeper legally now

4470

[Lazy-Ferret]

DOH... sorry, I see this has been covered...

ohh yeah, always remember to keep your tow bar ball well lubricated.. :thumb2

That does depend on what you are towing.... a lot of caravans, and now some of the bigger trailers are using stabilised hitches, that use pressure friction pads to grip on the towball to help control snaking, and must never be put on a towball that has seen even the slightest bit of grease.

[rustic]

4470

For Cupcake's benefit, or anyone else that has never towed, this device is wired into the wiring for the socket for the tow bar.
It is usually placed behind a panel in the boot area.
It normally beeps only when the trailer indicators actually flash, this is a legal requirement, as it tells the driver...
1 The bulb on the trailer is still workink when you indicate.
2 That the trailer is still there and you haven't lost it. :eek:

It shouldn't beep when no trailer is attached.

It can be irritating though if you have a bike rack, with a second tail board and numberplate tied to the bike when the original number plate and or lights are obscured by the bikes.

[96terrano]

For Cupcake's benefit, or anyone else that has never towed, this device is wired into the wiring for the socket for the tow bar.
It is usually placed behind a panel in the boot area.
It normally beeps only when the trailer indicators actually flash, this is a legal requirement, as it tells the driver...
1 The bulb on the trailer is still workink when you indicate.
2 That the trailer is still there and you haven't lost it. :eek:

It shouldn't beep when no trailer is attached.

It can be irritating though if you have a bike rack, with a second tail board and numberplate tied to the bike when the original number plate and or lights are obscured by the bikes.

What he said ^

Really cheap to buy too, they can get annoying as Rustic said, but better to be annoyed than illegal:lol, really winds the dog up :lol

[cupcake]

So mine should already have one of those wired in? Presumably wouldn't pass the MOT without it if it's a legal requirement?

[cncfabs]

So mine should already have one of those wired in? Presumably wouldn't pass the MOT without it if it's a legal requirement?

Been legal requirement for years but only just come into mot this year

[96terrano]

So mine should already have one of those wired in? Presumably wouldn't pass the MOT without it if it's a legal requirement?

Probably yes

[RobN]

A few sites I have found useful over the years. Towbars and towing have changed rapidly over the years there are a lot more rules and regulations -
National Trailer & Towing Association Ltd - are definitely one to read.


http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/expert-advice
http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/
http://www.caravanninglinks.co.uk/index.html
http://www.rydertowing.co.uk/ (Lots of Technical stuff.):thumb2
http://www.towitall.co.uk/
http://www.tyreline.com/ (Good for general tyre info for non trailers)
http://www.gocaravanning.com/ (info on everything)
https://sites.google.com/site/jim4meg/caravan-repair (good for old caravan repair)
http://www.pfjones.co.uk/
http://www.rightconnections.co.uk/
http://www.ntta.co.uk/ (The definitive on all regulations):bow

and finally when you are legal.

http://en.airecampingcar.com/

[96terrano]

A few sites I have found useful over the years. Towbars and towing have changed rapidly over the years there are a lot more rules and regulations -
National Trailer & Towing Association Ltd - are definitely one to read.


http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/expert-advice
http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/
http://www.caravanninglinks.co.uk/index.html
http://www.rydertowing.co.uk/ (Lots of Technical stuff.):thumb2
http://www.towitall.co.uk/
http://www.tyreline.com/ (Good for general tyre info for non trailers)
http://www.gocaravanning.com/ (info on everything)
https://sites.google.com/site/jim4meg/caravan-repair (good for old caravan repair)
http://www.pfjones.co.uk/
http://www.rightconnections.co.uk/
http://www.ntta.co.uk/ (The definitive on all regulations):bow

and finally when you are legal.

http://en.airecampingcar.com/


briliant:thumb2 only ones i've heard of are pfjones and rydertowing:D

[AD Ent]

I've only got 1 socket. Why would I need 2?

[96terrano]

I've only got 1 socket. Why would I need 2?

2nd can be uses for powering a fridge in a caravan, so will keep food chilled :thumb2

[Lazy-Ferret]

I've only got 1 socket. Why would I need 2?

You only really need 2, if you tow a caravan, or need something on the second socket....

Basically, the reversing lights, and various 12v feeds for fridge, battery charging, running caravan internal lights and stuff are on the other pins. There are also a bunch of extra "Grounds", to allow for all the extra power that is normally taken through that socket.

In the old days, before the alto reversing brakes, there was a device called a "reverse master" that basically allowed you to reverse, by electrically disconnecting the brakes. A lot of horse boxes and car trailers had it retro fitted, so then you needed the second socket for that, and if you had a light in the horse box, they would take the 12v as well.

[zippy656]

Best fit the 13 pin use an adapter to go to 7 if needed


Alko balls need to be clean and paint free

[96terrano]

Best fit the 13 pin use an adapter to go to 7 if needed


Alko balls need to be clean and paint free

what's the point in 13 pin sockets?

[zippy656]

Its a single socket that dose both plugs

All new caravans use them

[Lazy-Ferret]

what's the point in 13 pin sockets?

One socket instead of 2, so looks smarter on the back of the car.
They physically lock together, so no worry about them falling/pulling apart
New standard, in the future the old N and S will become obsolete.
All connections on one plug, so less worry of ground loops.

[96terrano]

One socket instead of 2, so looks smarter on the back of the car.
They physically lock together, so no worry about them falling/pulling apart
New standard, in the future the old N and S will become obsolete.
All connections on one plug, so less worry of ground loops.

but they are differand connections too the 12S so will need to change my trailer(s)

[96terrano]

liker how the towbar will mount on my hyunday, as the electrics are hidden, looks quite neat :thumb2



http://www.bullbar-praguri.ro/images/stories/carlige/hyundai/atos.jpg

[AD Ent]

One socket instead of 2, so looks smarter on the back of the car.
They physically lock together, so no worry about them falling/pulling apart
New standard, in the future the old N and S will become obsolete.
All connections on one plug, so less worry of ground loops.

I like the sound of that... Are they backwards compatible with socket on the trailer I use?

[Lazy-Ferret]

I like the sound of that... Are they backwards compatible with socket on the trailer I use?

You have to buy a little adapter that locks into the new 13pin socket, and turns it into a 7S socket. That is what I use for my little Erde and the towing dolly. Halfrauds sell them, and so loads of other places.

[AD Ent]

You have to buy a little adapter that locks into the new 13pin socket, and turns it into a 7S socket. That is what I use for my little Erde and the towing dolly. Halfrauds sell them, and so loads of other places.

Thanks. :thumb2 good to know. Just need a caravan now :D

[96terrano]

i'm just staying with what i know, 12n and 12s:thumb2

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

with euro 13 pin, can get a plug that splits cable to 12n and 12s, about £25!

if theres an adapter that plugs in and gives 12n without any cable between
please post a link, might be tempted to go euro when relocate electrics to
top side of bumper.

the alko extended is because the alko hitch on the trailer is wider sometimes
than a regular hitch, the body of it due to the locking mechanism of the pads,
and can then foul bolts on ball on towbar.

I had a 4 bolt ball on last t2, by witter the studs/bolts were very close but never
actually fouled. If use alko ball as said also helps avoid spare wheel, or a ball/jaw
combi where ball sticks out further than the jaw and pin has same effect.

use petrol or turps to clean grease from ball if using an alko type hitch, there are
other brands!

[96terrano]

with euro 13 pin, can get a plug that splits cable to 12n and 12s, about £25!

if theres an adapter that plugs in and gives 12n without any cable between
please post a link, might be tempted to go euro when relocate electrics to
top side of bumper.

the alko extended is because the alko hitch on the trailer is wider sometimes
than a regular hitch, the body of it due to the locking mechanism of the pads,
and can then foul bolts on ball on towbar.

I had a 4 bolt ball on last t2, by witter the studs/bolts were very close but never
actually fouled. If use alko ball as said also helps avoid spare wheel, or a ball/jaw
combi where ball sticks out further than the jaw and pin has same effect.

use petrol or turps to clean grease from ball if using an alko type hitch, there are
other brands!

So are 13 pin plugs the norm in everywhere else except UKk?

[jims-terrano]

Hey Zippy, can you have a new caravan converted back to the 12n and 12s rather than using an adapter cable. Think of the extra losses due to yet more connections with the adapter.

[Lazy-Ferret]

with euro 13 pin, can get a plug that splits cable to 12n and 12s, about £25!

if theres an adapter that plugs in and gives 12n without any cable between
please post a link, might be tempted to go euro when relocate electrics to
top side of bumper.

the alko extended is because the alko hitch on the trailer is wider sometimes
than a regular hitch, the body of it due to the locking mechanism of the pads,
and can then foul bolts on ball on towbar.

I had a 4 bolt ball on last t2, by witter the studs/bolts were very close but never
actually fouled. If use alko ball as said also helps avoid spare wheel, or a ball/jaw
combi where ball sticks out further than the jaw and pin has same effect.

use petrol or turps to clean grease from ball if using an alko type hitch, there are
other brands!

There is this that gives both... bit unwildly for my liking...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Compact-Towing-Adapter-13pin-Euro-To-12N-12S-UK-7pin-Sockets-Trailer-Caravan-/161031981733?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item257e410aa5


And this is the one I have, that just give the 12N

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adaptor-converter-for-a-7-pin-12N-Towing-Plug-to-fit-a-13-Pin-Socket-WSW-/190858295349?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item2c700a7835

[96terrano]

So should i go 13pin instead then? Is it worth it ?:nenau

[jims-terrano]

If you've got 7 pin plugs and sockets why spend more money on converting everything to 13 pins.

[96terrano]

If you've got 7 pin plugs and sockets why spend more money on converting everything to 13 pins.

Good point, just don't want them to be obsolete anytime soon

[jims-terrano]

Good point, just don't want them to be obsolete anytime soon

They won't be but also think about what you'll be towing? will the trailer have 13 pin or 7 pin?

Save the money and stick with 7 pins

[96terrano]

They won't be but also think about what you'll be towing? will the trailer have 13 pin or 7 pin?

Save the money and stick with 7 pins

aye, i'm just thinking of the future, possibly moving abroad

[zippy656]

Hey Zippy, can you have a new caravan converted back to the 12n and 12s rather than using an adapter cable. Think of the extra losses due to yet more connections with the adapter.

Yes

But so much cheaper to get the adaptor

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

can get euro to n/s and n/s to euro, see towsure.com.

all new caravans have euro, but have feeling even new utility trailers are 12n.

shame one of proposed pin arrangements for euro would have seen 12n in centre
with the s pins around the outside enabling a 12n trailer plug to fit or full euro
but instead the present euro was adopted.

wont be obsolite whilst ever millions of vehicles are on the road in uk and further
afield, after all W8 hasnt replaced W7 on every pc has it?

[96terrano]

can get euro to n/s and n/s to euro, see towsure.com.

all new caravans have euro, but have feeling even new utility trailers are 12n.

shame one of proposed pin arrangements for euro would have seen 12n in centre
with the s pins around the outside enabling a 12n trailer plug to fit or full euro
but instead the present euro was adopted.

wont be obsolite whilst ever millions of vehicles are on the road in uk and further
afield, after all W8 hasnt replaced W7 on every pc has it?

very interesting, if i need to upgrade in the future than i will, won't be hard to do:thumb2

[96terrano]

new tow bar all finished ready to be fitted when i get little car back, towbar has 12N and 12S electrics normally just had 12N but i fitted the 12S charging circuit as i'll rig it in with my 2nd under floor mounted battery:D

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1185154_696410263719730_72716416_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/533727_696410297053060_1333562245_n.jpg

[briggie]

aye, i'm just thinking of the future, possibly moving abroad

Poland , after the wedding ? :augie

[96terrano]

Poland , after the wedding ? :augie

actually yes:p Poland would be the first place. Possibly even Ukraine:D or Russia!

[briggie]

well I wish you both well for the future :thumb2, will the wedding be in England or Poland ?

[96terrano]

well I wish you both well for the future :thumb2, will the wedding be in England or Poland ?

i'm not actually in a relationship :lol just friends :thumb2

[96terrano]

electrical stuff for little car's towbar :D

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1175612_696444520382971_1402060321_n.jpg

[zippy656]

i'm not actually in a relationship :lol just friends :thumb2

Yer right!!

[96terrano]

Yer right!!

what!:augie