Changing domestic rcd from a 16amp to a 32amp

[stinka]

My stick welder blows fuses over 100 amps

No, it's got a standard 13 amp fuse domestic plug into standard socket in garage. The garage has its own board with a 100amp mcb and the sockets have a b16 16amp rcd.

So I'm thinking of swapping the socket on the wall for a blue 16 amp socket with same 16 amp plug on welder.

Can I swap the rcd easily enough for a larger 32 amp one So I can crank those Amps well past my current 100 amp limit ??

[stinka]

That last but should say 13amp limit, not 100amp

[cncfabs]

My stick welder blows fuses over 100 amps

No, it's got a standard 13 amp fuse domestic plug into standard socket in garage. The garage has its own board with a 100amp mcb and the sockets have a b16 16amp rcd.

So I'm thinking of swapping the socket on the wall for a blue 16 amp socket with same 16 amp plug on welder.

Can I swap the rcd easily enough for a larger 32 amp one So I can crank those Amps well past my current 100 amp limit ??

Had garage built 2 years ago and had 16 amp plugs put in for my welder.Was on 13 amp with old style breakers.The new 16 amp plugs turned out to be worse and have now gone back to 13 amp.Best thing to do is hard wire it to 30amp supply.

[makeitfit]

That last but should say 13amp limit, not 100amp

The RCD you're replacing is there to protect the existing cable size. Is it on a ring ? You can see by opening the consumer unit and see if there's a pair of wires on that fuse. While you're there see what size cable it is.

[(RIP) PLANK]

isn't the problem with welders that they are an inductive load an create a sudden surge when you first switch them on? not sure how to solve it, but I will watch with interest :thumb2

[stinka]

The RCD you're replacing is there to protect the existing cable size. Is it on a ring ? You can see by opening the consumer unit and see if there's a pair of wires on that fuse. While you're there see what size cable it is.

Cable comes in one wire from consumer to double socket on wa, it's in truncking and it's 10mm so 53amp

[makeitfit]

Cable comes in one wire from consumer to double socket on wa, it's in truncking and it's 10mm so 53amp

No probs then change the RCD :thumbs

[rayf3262]

MCB's are available in a number of surge ratings, generally type B C and D.
The vast majority of domestic installations use Type B.

The .2 second ratings are:
Type B: 3 to 5 x Rated Current
Type C: 5 to 10 x Reated Current
Type D: 10 to 14 x Rated Current

Type D breakers are commonly used on large motor and welders.

So ideally you need to change the MCB for a C or D type of the SAME current rating, as the MCB is sized to protect the wiring.

[stinka]

I'm thinking of bodging this :D

I'm going to use this :

http://bit.ly/Tzjtp1

Will use it to split the cable into 2 so running 2x13amp plug on two flex coming in to block, there fore 26amp supply

What ya think ?

Obviously I'll tape it up severely and then some more and only use it when no ones about

I think it will work all though its a bodge

[stinka]

Btw I'm on about the welder, adding two standard 13amp plugs on it so making the fuse 26amp

[stinka]

Also I could put 10amp fuses in the plugs to make it 20amp, bit safer like ;)

[SPARKIEDOO]

MCB's are available in a number of surge ratings, generally type B C and D.
The vast majority of domestic installations use Type B.

The .2 second ratings are:
Type B: 3 to 5 x Rated Current
Type C: 5 to 10 x Reated Current
Type D: 10 to 14 x Rated Current

Type D breakers are commonly used on large motor and welders.

So ideally you need to change the MCB for a C or D type of the SAME current rating, as the MCB is sized to protect the wiring.



nice to see here someone is talking sence :naughty

[rayf3262]

I'm thinking of bodging this :D

Will use it to split the cable into 2 so running 2x13amp plug on two flex coming in to block, there fore 26amp supply

What ya think ?

Obviously I'll tape it up severely and then some more and only use it when no ones about

I think it will work all though its a bodge

Please do not do that, it is inherently very dangerous, you will be creating something the electrical industry calls a "WIDOW-MAKER" The potential for a loose 13A plug with live pins exposed!

[edgerton19]

If you fit 2 off 13A plugs then if one is not connected and the other is live the pins on the unconncted plug will become live and very dangerous.

I have fitted and used a 16A blue type socket in my garage and fed it with a 16A type D MCB from the garage distribution board.
The garage supply is protected by a 63A rated RCD followed by a 32A type D MCB in the house.

RCDs protect against earth currents/leakage and MCBs protect against excess current.

I can run my 150A Cebora MIG welder with 0.8mm wire without problems.

The usual cause of fuses blowing/MCBs tripping is flux doubling of the transformer (Google for more details) and the type D breaker allow the larger initial surge wihout tripping.

Having done all of the above I then did an impedance check on the wiring to ensure the installation met the wiring regs for breaker trip times. Easy when you know how and have access to the test gear.

[stinka]

Please do not do that, it is inherently very dangerous, you will be creating something the electrical industry calls a "WIDOW-MAKER" The potential for a loose 13A plug with live pins exposed!

No one goes/is alowed in my garage, and I'm not stupid enough to plug it in whilst socket turned on ...

[stinka]

Perhaps I'd be better coming off the single wire to the double socket in the garage. Use a joint box here and spur off into a commandos socket like this :

http://bit.ly/VFlL3o

??

[rayf3262]

You asked: "What ya think ?"

I (and others) think it is dangerous.
I think you should follow edgertons advice.... Please.

[rayf3262]

Perhaps I'd be better coming off the single wire to the double socket in the garage. Use a joint box here and spur off into a commandos socket like this :

http://bit.ly/VFlL3o

??
Thats a 32A unit, way to big, 16A is more than sufficient, about 5 quid for the socket and 2 quid for the plug at screwfix. Then get a D type MCB for the garage CU, about 4 quid.

[solarman216]

I am confused stinka, you are currently running a welder on a 13 amp plug and the 32 amp MCB is tripping not the 13 amp plug fuse, have I got that right, Rick

[rustic]

I'm thinking of bodging this :D

I'm going to use this :

http://bit.ly/Tzjtp1

Will use it to split the cable into 2 so running 2x13amp plug on two flex coming in to block, there fore 26amp supply

What ya think ?

Obviously I'll tape it up severely and then some more and only use it when no ones about

I think it will work all though its a bodge

No one with any electrical knowledge would agree with this...:doh:doh
And anybody with no electrical knowledge should not be agreeing with it either.:eek:

The blue 16 Amp plug / socket as used on caravans, should be adequate, provided that the cable and fusing is suitable for the application.:thumbs

Best regards,
Rustic

[stinka]

I am confused stinka, you are currently running a welder on a 13 amp plug and the 32 amp MCB is tripping not the 13 amp plug fuse, have I got that right, Rick

No, my welder needs 16amp at full chat and is limited by my 13amp domestic plug

It's got a 16amp rcd

[stinka]

Tbh thinking about it my mate used to do dj gigs with widowmakers when we were young !

[solarman216]

No, my welder needs 16amp at full chat and is limited by my 13amp domestic plug

It's got a 16amp rcd

Then I would be changing the MCB for 32 amp (your cable is well big enough) and as it supplies a double socket 16 amp is not enough anyway, regards the widow maker, I use one to run a big pressure washer for washing customers drives at home I use a blue socket but private houses rarely have them, like anything else you use your initiative and I have never been a fan of H & S anyway, having said that I would put a blue socket along side your double and plug your welder into this and I would stay with the B type MCB as this will better protect any equipment in the 13 amp sockets, Rick

[stinka]

Then I would be changing the MCB for 32 amp (your cable is well big enough) and as it supplies a double socket 16 amp is not enough anyway, regards the widow maker, I use one to run a big pressure washer for washing customers drives at home I use a blue socket but private houses rarely have them, like anything else you use your initiative and I have never been a fan of H & S anyway, having said that I would put a blue socket along side your double and plug your welder into this and I would stay with the B type MCB as this will better protect any equipment in the 13 amp sockets, Rick

Cheers mate

I think a widow maker has its place, its not ideal but its as safe as you make it.

Its no more dangerous than working on domestic electrics ... Someone could turn the bloody MCB back on whilst you are working on it.

We just have to do our best to safe guard

[stinka]

Btw rick the MCB is 32amp, its the RCD that's 16amp
That should be fine I think ...

After all it was only the 13 amp fuse blowing in the domestic plug I put on the welder