soldering iron help

[extreme-4x4]

anyone recommend anything in the lower price band 20 quid max really, like the idea of the gas one from maplins

ideally local high st supplier as i want it today (as usual) lol

[rustic]

anyone recommend anything in the lower price band 20 quid max really, like the idea of the gas one from maplins

ideally local high st supplier as i want it today (as usual) lol

It depends what you are trying to solder.

If battery terminals, I use a small pencil gas filled blow lamp, fantastic, flame very small and very hot. Refill with gas lighter fluid.

I also have a small gas powered soldering iron, great for small outdoor jobs, equivalent to A 60watt electric iron.

I have an electric 25watt iron, for wires on terminals on connectors and also a small temperature controlled iron of around 15watts with a small tip for electronic components on circuit boards.

So the power and type depends on what you want to use it for.

I also have one of those huge ones that has instant heat, it is useless.....heavy, bulky and you can't do anything with it.:doh

[clivvy]

I have the Gas one from..erm...think it was B&Q, which I think is the same as Maplins. I love it me. Comes with a few different tips but no gas of course. Mie was about £25 though....so far have used it successfully for some wiring jobs on the cars and around the house. Lasts a good while and its great not having the restriction of the wire, worktop or extensions...!

[extreme-4x4]

It depends what you are trying to solder.

If battery terminals, I use a small pencil gas filled blow lamp, fantastic, flame very small and very hot. Refill with gas lighter fluid.

I also have a small gas powered soldering iron, great for small outdoor jobs, equivalent to A 60watt electric iron.

I have an electric 25watt iron, for wires on terminals on connectors and also a small temperature controlled iron of around 15watts with a small tip for electronic components on circuit boards.

So the power and type depends on what you want to use it for.

I also have one of those huge ones that has instant heat, it is useless.....heavy, bulky and you can't do anything with it.:doh

was going to do the wiring of the fans this weekend then i can replace my water pump. so its only really to join wires etc. mostly automotive work. i need a few spade connectors and some solder switches and might even go for another cb Ariel. so it looks like maplin is the choice

http://www.maplin.co.uk/solder-pro-70-gas-soldering-iron-34514

halfords dont have anything spectacular nor do amazon or argos

[rustic]

was going to do the wiring of the fans this weekend then i can replace my water pump. so its only really to join wires etc. mostly automotive work. i need a few spade connectors and some solder switches and might even go for another cb Ariel. so it looks like maplin is the choice

http://www.maplin.co.uk/solder-pro-70-gas-soldering-iron-34514


P E R F E C T for the job in hand, WOW what a cheap price.

Other members had better be quick too.
This really is a great price.:clap:clap

Get yourself some good solder wire with the flux in the solder.

For this application, you don't need the lead free solder, but we do need to cut back on the older solder.

:thumb2:thumb2

[jims-terrano]

Fancy one of them myself.

A word of warning though, don't get hold of the wrong end:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

Jim

[Terranical]

Fancy one of them myself.

A word of warning though, don't get hold of the wrong end:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

Jim
That sounds like the word of experience, Jim! I've done it myself, working (in my working days) on a large mailing machine - put the iron down and it slipped, instinctively grabbed it - wrong end - ouch! Took two weeks for my fingers to heal. :eek:

[(RIP) PLANK]

a bit of a tangent,but!

Maplin now do heat shrink tube with a hot glue liner so the joint is completely waterproof, might be of some use :thumb2

[Adz]

THAT'S HANDY TO KNOW :thumbs

[solarman216]

Crimps are a lot easier and safer too, Rick

[rustic]

a bit of a tangent,but!

Maplin now do heat shrink tube with a hot glue liner so the joint is completely waterproof, might be of some use :thumb2

Screwfix do self amalgamating tape, which bonds to it's self and forms a watertight seal.
Can be used on hoses etc as well.

As Solarman says, crimps are better, especially in high vibration situations.
You can also use some of the self amalgamating tape over the crimps too.

Best regards,
Rustic

[(RIP) PLANK]

Screwfix do self amalgamating tape, which bonds to it's self and forms a watertight seal.
Can be used on hoses etc as well.

As Solarman says, crimps are better, especially in high vibration situations.
You can also use some of the self amalgamating tape over the crimps too.

Best regards,
Rustic

Crimps are better where the job requires crimps but they aren't generally better, a well solder joint will always be stronger and 'Safer' especially in high vibration situations. Crimps are easier/quicker granted but no way more secure than a well made and soldered joint :nenau

Thumbs up for self amalgamating tape though - brilliant stuff :thumb2

[rustic]

Crimps are better where the job requires crimps but they aren't generally better, a well solder joint will always be stronger and 'Safer' especially in high vibration situations. Crimps are easier/quicker granted but no way more secure than a well made and soldered joint :nenau


I dissagree on the issue on vibration on wires that have been soldered.:nenau

You start with multistrand wire that is better than solid wire in vibration applications, I think there is no doubt about this...:thumb2

The reason being, is that at the solder joint the stranded wires now become solid conductors over the joint, caused by the solder itself.
see:-
Flexibility

Stranded wire is very flexible, making it easy to bend and route through places that require current. It also works best in situations where wire is subject to vibration and extensive movement because it is sturdy while still retaining flexibility. In contrast, solid wire is more stiff and prone to break if it is bent excessively. This is why it works well when used in applications where wires will sustain very little motion or vibration.

From:-

http://www.ehow.com/info_8122345_difference-between-stranded-solid-wire.html

[(RIP) PLANK]

I dissagree on the issue on vibration on wires that have been soldered.:nenau

You start with multistrand wire that is better than solid wire in vibration applications, I think there is no doubt about this...:thumb2

The reason being, is that at the solder joint the stranded wires now become solid conductors over the joint, caused by the solder itself.
see:-
Flexibility

Stranded wire is very flexible, making it easy to bend and route through places that require current. It also works best in situations where wire is subject to vibration and extensive movement because it is sturdy while still retaining flexibility. In contrast, solid wire is more stiff and prone to break if it is bent excessively. This is why it works well when used in applications where wires will sustain very little motion or vibration.

From:-

http://www.ehow.com/info_8122345_difference-between-stranded-solid-wire.html

and at the point your stranded wire enters the crimp it also becomes solid, and also pinched, and so does break very easily, make two joints from the same wire and try it :thumb2

[rustic]

and at the point your stranded wire enters the crimp it also becomes solid, and also pinched, and so does break very easily, make two joints from the same wire and try it :thumb2

The crimps, if used with the proper crimping tool, provides strain relief at the start of the crimp as the soft plastic of the crimp housing forms around the wire, held onto the outer insulation of the wire.
This moves the stress away from the crimp-wire interface.

The success of the good crimp, does rely on proper tooling, the simple cheap plier type crimp tools do not provide adequate strain relief, and I agree with your comment above if you are using this type of crimp tool.

The dual head ratchet type with insulation adjustment are the best type, but do cost more.

[(RIP) PLANK]

The crimps, if used with the proper crimping tool, provides strain relief at the start of the crimp as the soft plastic of the crimp housing forms around the wire, held onto the outer insulation of the wire.
This moves the stress away from the crimp-wire interface.

The success of the good crimp, does rely on proper tooling, the simple cheap plier type crimp tools do not provide adequate strain relief, and I agree with your comment above if you are using this type of crimp tool.

The dual head ratchet type with insulation adjustment are the best type, but do cost more.

when you think about it a good crimp does the same as a good soldered joint then, the solid soldered section - like the crimp - is inflexible and the wire joined to it is so that takes the flex and most crimps are not well applied with quality tools! Plus a soldered joint will stand a good tug where a crimp will come apart. So at best they are the same, and generally speaking worse. I do love a good debate :augie

[rustic]

when you think about it a good crimp does the same as a good soldered joint then, the solid soldered section - like the crimp - is inflexible and the wire joined to it is so that takes the flex and most crimps are not well applied with quality tools! Plus a soldered joint will stand a good tug where a crimp will come apart. So at best they are the same, and generally speaking worse. I do love a good debate :augie

The major point is really how well secured the cables and their joints or crimps are, this will have a greater effect on the reliability.

If a crimped joint is in free air, say between the engine and the chassis, then its mass will make it more liable to failure, in the same way a soldered joint will.

So location of the joint in the wiring loom will be a key factor.

IF there is moisture around the connection, then there will be corrosion of the crimp, due to dissimilar metals. This also applies to the solder joint.

So the method used, needs to be suitable for the application, ie suitable for purpose.

I have used both methods of course, also heat shrink sleeving, even waxoyl over the crimp in exposed areas, and have had no breakages or poor connections with the crimps so far.

For the caravan socket, with stranded wire, I use the boot lace ferrules that provide strain relief and avoids the small screws cutting into the wires.

PS I like a good debate too....:thumb2:thumb2

[edgerton19]

Having worked in the aircraft industry in a former life and done vibration tests I can say properly formed crimps are far superior to solder joints BUT you need to use a proper crimp tool and decent crimps.

Given the choice I use AMP brand PIDG (plastic insulated diamond grip) with the correct crimp tools (which cost a fortune but a £10-20 rachet crimp tool will do a reasonable job).
The critical thing is to ensure the insulation is retained in the rear bucket of the crimp and 1-2 mm of wire is visible at the other end for inspection.

Remember the plastic crimps are colour coded for the wire size i.e. RED 22-18AWG, Blue 16-14AWG and Yellow 12-10 AWG this is a bit of an approximation but good enough for vehicle use. For perfect crimps you have to very carefully match the crimp to the wire and insulation size but this requires detailed study and a tame AMP rep as the AMP catalogues can be a pig to drive.

Solder joints tend to fail where the solder finishes in the multistrand bundle and causes a high stress point leading to fatigue failure during vibration.

BUT and it a big BUT never ever tin multistrand wire (solder consolidate) before fitting under a screw terminal i.e. trailer connectors. The solder cold flows under pressure and gives a bad high resistance connection after a period of time. This is a well documented failure mechanism and is forbidden in many BS and European standards e.g. BS EN 60950:2006 clause 3.3.8
"Stranded wire
The end of a stranded conductor shall not be consolidated by soft soldering at places where the conductor is subject to contact pressure unless the method of clamping is designed so as to reduce the likelihood of a bad contact due to cold flow of the solder."

As suggested above us boot-lace ferrules.

[(RIP) PLANK]

another tought! do a fair few joints in very high voltage low crrent wires (high vibration and exsposed to all weathers) and crimps would just not do! at over 10 Kv they drop too much voltage andof corse insulation to stop arcing is paramount. so a tripple insulated soldered joit is the only solution.

So the application is also factor here!

and my point is also proven by the above crimps need high quality tools and connectors before any of the claims for them hold water ;-)

[solarman216]

Crimps are a lot easier and safer too, Rick

Agreed but we are talking automotive wiring here so crimps with the correct ratchet tool are the way to go, Rick

[(RIP) PLANK]

Agreed but we are talking automotive wiring here so crimps with the correct ratchet tool are the way to go, Rick

I still think the jury is out on that one, so either will do use what you have got :thumb2

[rustic]

I still think the jury is out on that one, so either will do use what you have got :thumb2

Your jury might be :lol:lol:lol

Mine has not changed their mind.
There was never a case to answer... :bow:bow


:lol:lol:lol

[makeitfit]

Can't tell you lot how many choc blocs holding my elecktickery together then :lol
Not to mention all those blue quick fix piggy back things, they're brill :D

[(RIP) PLANK]

Your jury might be :lol:lol:lol

Mine has not changed their mind.
There was never a case to answer... :bow:bow


:lol:lol:lol

same here, if you re-read my contributions to the thread i never championed the use of either method just offered the link to a certain sort of heat shrink tubing and then an assumption was made. The tubing would work with many connection methods. So use whichever suits the job and whichever you are capable of :thumb2

[rustic]

Crimps are better where the job requires crimps but they aren't generally better, a well solder joint will always be stronger and 'Safer' especially in high vibration situations. Crimps are easier/quicker granted but no way more secure than a well made and soldered joint :nenau

Thumbs up for self amalgamating tape though - brilliant stuff :thumb2

same here, if you re-read my contributions to the thread i never championed the use of either method just offered the link to a certain sort of heat shrink tubing and then an assumption was made. The tubing would work with many connection methods. So use whichever suits the job and whichever you are capable of :thumb2

Plank, I think your 2nd contribution shown above seems to champion solder joints...:augie

[(RIP) PLANK]

This goes back and forth like a tennis match lol. I get told we are talking about cars not the high voltage applications I suggested. Then we get evidence from the aeroplane industry and the same rule doesn't apply?

I spend time ina min dealer workshop for a company nthat supplies Citroen, Mazda, Volvo, Honda, Chevrolette and others and most wiring uupgrades and repairs are soldered according to manufacturers specs. The world has changed. I could go on but! believe you can use what you have. This thread has gone on many tangents including ' tinning multi strand wire' as evidence against me, where did i advocate that?

I simply added to a thread asking for soldering iron advice with some soldering iron advice.

CRIMPERS ARE FOR TEENAGE GIRLS HAIR LOL


excuse typos replying on Kindle :-)

[rustic]

CRIMPERS ARE FOR TEENAGE GIRLS HAIR LOL
excuse typos replying on Kindle :-)


Yes in the same way, solder is for plumbing... :lol:lol:lol

Anyway, only winding you up Plank....:augie a bit of banter...
:lol:lol

Anyway, I didn't know you could open this site on a Kindle, how do you do that then?

Best regards,
Richard (Rustic):thumb2

[christof123]

Well i think books are better than kindles. :sly

Thats it im off. :augie

[(RIP) PLANK]

Anyway, I didn't know you could open this site on a Kindle, how do you do that then?



I have a kindle 3g with a keyboard at the bottom, I don't know anything about the ones with no keyboard. But you just search for the site in google and hen add it as a bookmark. It's a bit slow, fine on wifi but when relying on the mobile 3g connection you have to be patient.

But it is very good for reading books and you can't have everything :thumb2

[(RIP) PLANK]

Yes in the same way, solder is for plumbing... :lol:lol:lol

Thinking about it, that is an interesting comparison, these days plumbing is often plastic pipes and push fittings, solder and copper are going out of vogue rather like Cortina's and Crimps :augie. Soldering: in your TV, microwave, DVD, laptops, mobile phone, washing machine . . . endless

Then in your car: stereo, maf, ecu,... not even going to bother thinking of a huge list.

The point is there are literally millions of soldered joints in all our homes and cars and relatively few of them ever fail, they are often under extreme vibration, temperature fluctuations and even damp conditions. While the amount of crimp fitting as relatively few, less than a dozen?

I rest my case, your honour :lol

[extreme-4x4]

Can't tell you lot how many choc blocs holding my elecktickery together then :lol
Not to mention all those blue quick fix piggy back things, they're brill :D

i actually feel like ive gone ott on this now , i made a whole wireing loom up for this project, running current in both directions. all proper ends and solder joints all sleaved insulated and run through some ducting :o

[zippy656]

i actually feel like ive gone ott on this now , i made a whole wireing loom up for this project, running current in both directions. all proper ends and solder joints all sleaved insulated and run through some ducting :o

what you doing boss?

[extreme-4x4]

what you doing boss?
well if i disclose that now everyone will be doing it :doh

na only fitted electric fans so far , but have sorted the new front mount intercoolers and worked out my route through, to supply them. this route also allows for mass air ram right on its nose too.

be very standard looking till you lift the bonnet.
the job is quite easy but taking lots of planning to get what i want in the space available . also having to change parts you wouldn't normally do just to fit around the new fun stuff

looked at tune it , but so far think re-map is possible and preferred