Another sovereign state attack/invasion

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12796972

So Libya wasn't attacked for bombing Pan-am flight 20 odd years ago
but now on its internal human rights or lack of.

Nowt to with oil I'm sure?

[briggie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12796972

So Libya wasn't attacked for bombing Pan-am flight 20 odd years ago
but now on its internal human rights or lack of.

Nowt to with oil I'm sure?

OF COURSE ITS NOTHING TO DO WITH OIL , DONT BE SO SUSPICIOUS :augie

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

sorry Pete i'm such a cynic,

civil war, so sort this one then we'll have a UN long way down trip and sort
all the other places out that weren't worth jack before.

nearly said crusade, but that would probably have another meaning...

[briggie]

its for the greater harmony of the world , and to preserve security obviously :augie...... some more of our brave men and women going to sort someone elses problems out

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

but its not fair, i mean other places have been waiting patiently on the
axis of evil wish list far longer you know!

like north korea, iran, zimbabwe. but then what the fcuk have they got
thats worth having in spoils of war divvy up?

[solarman216]

We all want and have to have OIL, and the price can go up on any excuse, this is a nice one, we are just pawns in the game, Rick

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

2157: More from Gaddafi's statement: "This aggression only makes the Libyan people more stronger, and consolidates its will." He says he will "open the arms depots to defend Libya, it's unity and sovereignty and might".2152: In his brief statement, Col Gaddafi says Libyans will confront the "colonial crusader" attacks.2151: The Libyan leader adds that the Mediterranean has become a "ground of war".2149: In a statement, Col Gaddafi calls for Libyans to arm for "revolution".

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

We all want and have to have OIL, and the price can go up on any excuse, this is a nice one, we are just pawns in the game, Rick

agreed thats the reality,

not this civil war/rights nonsense

anyway 23 years late is better than never
though impossible to justify now.

bit like not sorting iraq out at time of kuwait.

[extreme-4x4]

we all know its about oil, any fool can see that. but worryingly the world needs oil society and financially the world relies on oil. as much as we need air.

now suppose someone just comes out and says , ok the oil people are pissing us about or have too much control over us in the west, so we are going to seize control of it for ourselves.

it would be a free for all , the world would be at war,

so again propaganda and winding a few civies up into trying to over throw governments soon leads to human rights claims and before you know it our soldiers are fighting to control the oil fields.
any civilians killed along the way get blamed on bad governments who have governed and kept there countries quite trouble free for 30 odd years ... obviously now dictators and murderers .

worst thing of all is , as soon as us / joe public in the west , need to be convinced the next war is needed for human rights. our governments just put the price of fuel up . and we panic and tow the line .

[Deleted account DD]

I'm actually quite chilled about us putting on an air exclusion zone with various ground attack options. He who controls the air will win the war.

So long as we dont end up in a ground invasion, thats a different ball game.

Ive held back on commenting to avoid big arguments but todays news backs up my comments.

Libyas air defence is no problem at all to us. Not least because we are quite simply better, backed significantly by the fact we know what theyve got, how it operates and how good they arent with it because we sold quite a lot of it to them :thumbs

Todays comment from a senior RAF officer who stated "there is a libyan threat but not one that concerns me" backs that up.

Historically the East has always been a hot bed of problems. Gadaffi is a loon leading a very hot bed. What he is doing to his people is unacceptable and unlike some other locations has the definite possibility of affecting us in many many ways if he isnt dealt with. So why cant we make an example of the worst but probably easiest to pick off and establish our hand:nenau

Lets be honest here we're not exactly squeaky clean in this ever changing world. Very good example (over and above who supplied libya Tony) is us in Afghanistan. We're fighting the Taliban & co now but who was in there during the Russina occupation in the 80's training and supplying them :confused::augie:augie:augie

At the end of the day the bonus to this is we may get the regime changed without too much effort, stability in some form should return and we should have the favour of a new wealthy oil supplying regime.


Good result for us in the world wide strategical picture.

[Deleted account DD]

ps the main thing that pisses me off about our government is that many of our assets arent available because theyve been scrapped.

The Nims have been sent out there , scrapping halted.

Tornados (my faves :D) will be providing air defence and mud moving were set to be scrapped.

Typhoons have been sent out there, they were going to be cut back.

Wake up call :nenau

[extreme-4x4]

I'm actually quite chilled about us putting on an air exclusion zone with various ground attack options. He who controls the air will win the war.

So long as we dont end up in a ground invasion, thats a different ball game.

Ive held back on commenting to avoid big arguments but todays news backs up my comments.

Libyas air defence is no problem at all to us. Not least because we are quite simply better, backed significantly by the fact we know what theyve got, how it operates and how good they arent with it because we sold quite a lot of it to them :thumbs

Todays comment from a senior RAF officer who stated "there is a libyan threat but not one that concerns me" backs that up.

Historically the East has always been a hot bed of problems. Gadaffi is a loon leading a very hot bed. What he is doing to his people is unacceptable and unlike some other locations has the definite possibility of affecting us in many many ways if he isnt dealt with. So why cant we make an example of the worst but probably easiest to pick off and establish our hand:nenau

Lets be honest here we're not exactly squeaky clean in this ever changing world. Very good example (over and above who supplied libya Tony) is us in Afghanistan. We're fighting the Taliban & co now but who was in there during the Russina occupation in the 80's training and supplying them :confused::augie:augie:augie

At the end of the day the bonus to this is we may get the regime changed without too much effort, stability in some form should return and we should have the favour of a new wealthy oil supplying regime.


Good result for us in the world wide strategical picture.


are you telling me he is more of a loon this year, than he was last year when the Scottish gave him back a terrorist . ( and yes the result of giving them the right to make there own laws )

hey im all for making examples of loons but if he was acceptable for the last 29 years what's he done that's so bad now, except his oil

[Deleted account DD]

are you telling me he is more of a loon this year, than he was last year when the Scottish gave him back a terrorist . ( and yes the result of giving them the right to make there own laws )

hey im all for making examples of loons but if he was acceptable for the last 29 years what's he done that's so bad now, except his oil

He's reached the peak of being a loon. I think the inclusion of genocide tipped that one :thumb2

As far as Lockerbie goes, I arrived in the town in the early hours of Dec 22nd 1988. A time I will never ever forget and despite wanting to and passing it many times I have never been able to return. However I had the absolute humbling honour of meeting and helping the people of that town.

For hopefully obvious reasons as well as those I posted above I personally could bomb the **** out of Gadaffi and Megrahi without batting an eyelid. I have nothing against the Libyan people in general, just certain ones.

What I would do to those who released him is not really appropriate for publishing and was an abhorrence on our judicial system.

Bet you wish youd never mentioned it now :thumbs

On a lighter note if there is one, the only reason I and a few others didnt end up there on the 21st is because they wouldnt let us on the chinook we were too pissed , been to an xmas party :D

Then when I got there hangover and all my mate and I were on sky tv, we walked down the high street past a chuntering Amercian reporter who was on about "reporting form Lockerbie, Scotland , England, United Kingdom " my mate turned towards him and mouthed the word "w4nkur" Apparently it was quite easy to lip read on the tv report :D

[illy]

Im not to sure the oil as a reason as Libia only produce 2% of the worlds oil

illy

[Deleted account DD]

Im not to sure the oil as a reason as Libia only produce 2% of the worlds oil



well pointed out :thumb2 i thought it was low but i didn't realise it was that low As a strategic reason for invasion i wouldnt have thought it was top of the list :nenau

[extreme-4x4]

He's reached the peak of being a loon. I think the inclusion of genocide tipped that one :thumb2

As far as Lockerbie goes, I arrived in the town in the early hours of Dec 22nd 1988. A time I will never ever forget and despite wanting to and passing it many times I have never been able to return. However I had the absolute humbling honour of meeting and helping the people of that town.

For hopefully obvious reasons as well as those I posted above I personally could bomb the **** out of Gadaffi and Megrahi without batting an eyelid. I have nothing against the Libyan people in general, just certain ones.

What I would do to those who released him is not really appropriate for publishing and was an abhorrence on our judicial system.

Bet you wish youd never mentioned it now :thumbs

On a lighter note if there is one, the only reason I and a few others didnt end up there on the 21st is because they wouldnt let us on the chinook we were too pissed , been to an xmas party :D

Then when I got there hangover and all my mate and I were on sky tv, we walked down the high street past a chuntering Amercian reporter who was on about "reporting form Lockerbie, Scotland , England, United Kingdom " my mate turned towards him and mouthed the word "w4nkur" Apparently it was quite easy to lip read on the tv report :D

not at all.

i like you would have liked to see those responsible for the terror attack on our united kingdoms pay for there crimes. but should we not have dealt with that any time within the last 23 years, rather than now ?
after all scotland has already made it very clear it ok with them !

sadly i dont believe this genocide or the threat of, is anything new to any of these countries, but i do think some intervention from the west is most likely the cause of unrest and the belief the people if Libya have that the west will help if they stand up to gadaffi.

we both know as in our free country people are planted in riots / demonstrations to cause problems for police to step in . the same easily happens to give people belief they have hope of freedom to start demonstrations that causes unrest .

the question for me is what price is this freedom to the people of Libya and our troops who will inevitably end up there

what do we the united kingdoms gain from this ? if not access to cheap oil we can control

surely some countries in Africa are more deserving of our help IF genocide alone is our concern

[Deleted account DD]

We will have to agree to disagree.

Now and then circumstances dictate intervention is appropriate imho Iraq wasnt, Afghan possibly is Libya definitely is.

Im clearly very biased on the subject of Libya which is why I wasnt going to comment.

:nenau:thumb2

[extreme-4x4]

We will have to agree to disagree.

Now and then circumstances dictate intervention is appropriate imho Iraq wasnt, Afghan possibly is Libya definitely is.

Im clearly very biased on the subject of Libya which is why I wasnt going to comment.

:nenau:thumb2

was genocide not one of the reasons we was fed for intervention in iraq that with the weapons of mass destruction ( we never found )

what makes genocide acceptable in 3rd world countries but not in libya or other oil rich countries

[Deleted account DD]

We will have to agree to disagree.




as above

[briggie]

british forces should only be used when the security of our country is at risk .... trouble is that is a bit of a wildcard and can be interpreted in many different ways

[extreme-4x4]

as above
well obviously i have given this little research or interest on the news, as id assumed we was being blindly lead into another expensive war we should have no involvement in or can afford .

but assuming i have missed some vital facts,

we have already established genocide alone is not reason for intervention as we dont whenever genocide happens elsewhere.

we cant use the fact that we dont like gadaffi ( he's a loon ) because its illegal and breaks every rule of the united nations for another country to overthrow a countries government .

so what reason do we have to be there ?


educate me !

and no im not arguing. me and dave i think are mates, but id like to know why and if we have a valid reason to go to libya

[extreme-4x4]

british forces should only be used when the security of our country is at risk .... trouble is that is a bit of a wildcard and can be interpreted in many different ways

id like to think the free british people of our lands will want proof this time if there was a threat. and not to fall for the lies that blair fed us , and later admitted were lies .

[jims-terrano]

I support our service men and women all the way but I really don't support our govenrment. We can ill afford to run the country or so the government would have us think. So how on earth can we afford this action which will cost god knows how much and go on for god knows how long. If daffy duck is thrown out who or what will replace him? another power vacuum? Will there be more hatred towards the western infidels?
I'm sure this action would be a whole lot easier from deck of a carrier a lot like Ark.
If we are the worlds police force then why are we not sorting out Zimbabwe.

I strongly think our government is getting us into more trouble with money and the rest of the world.

However what is worse than this!!! my wife ran off with my Terrano today for the whole day:nenau gonna have to hide the keys:naughty

Jim

[Deleted account DD]

me and dave i think are mates, :thumbs

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

can we claim that we are looking after oil interests BECAUSE western companies
have got their installaitions there. clearly there will be our civilians there employeed
at said places.

also is libya a real country, contradicting my statement but wonder like iraq
which i understand is a line on a map and as such moved too.

not a historian, but north africian campaign ww2 was that future oil field ownership
driven. has it just been easier for last few decades to allow local rule of these
places to by pass proven issues of mixing races and religions in power.

tbf all these places are run around islamic governments which seem to suit their
dictatorships. these are pure political questions not aiming to dredge up any
racial or religious arguments.

[lacroupade]

I believe Libya was actually three countries mashed together by the Italians when they occupied it...and it seems the Arabs hate Gaddafi as much as we do.

The real reason for this activity is unclear since the numbers of civilian casualties caused by the insurrection was actually very small....could be oil (since most of Libya's comes to Europe) or could just be an excuse for payback time for Gaddafi...either way, it will leave a big mess behind it, including possible civil war between two sides that were forcefully united under colonial powers.